MovieChat Forums > The Scarlet Pimpernel (1982) Discussion > Where are all the scarlet pimpernel fans...

Where are all the scarlet pimpernel fans?


Hey, am i the only one?

"Sink me, if you aren't right... for a change." - The Scarlet Pimpernel

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I'm a fan of the Scarlet Pimpernel. I love this movie. I read the book earlier this week before I viewed the DVD of the 1982 movie. Both are great. Later I'll be renting the earlier movie version starring Leslie Howard, and the mini-series starring Richard Grant. I'd like to be able to compare all three versions.

Have you read any of the books in the Scarlet Pimpernel series?

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I haven't seen any other versions apart from this one and the Leslie Howard film, which I think is much better than this one, it was the 1st time I'd heard of the scalrt pimpernel and it just really influenced my perception of the character from there on. it just has more age and atmosphere to it than the 1982 film and Leslie Howard was amazing In it.

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I think that's true - I saw the 1982 version first, and that is now my favourite. I don't know if I would have preferred Leslie Howard, or (*shudder*) Richard E. Grant, if a different film had introduced me to the characters, and I wonder what people who read the book first come away with, as their mental image of Percy and Marguerite? I prefer Marguerite as dark-haired, whereas she had auburn hair in the stories.

"Tony, if you talk that rubbish, I shall be forced to punch your head" - Lord Tony's Wife, Orczy

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What's wrong with Richard Grant as the scarlet pimpernel? Was he no good? I haven't seen it but I think he wouldn't be too bad, not pompous or camp enough but wouldn't be terrible, right?

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Richard E. Grant was who I objected to least in the series - Elizabeth McGovern was wooden (perhaps because she was concentrating on a British accent) and too frumpy (how can you look fat wearing a corset?); Martin Shaw 'sexed up' Chauvelin until he was a cross between Amadeus and the Marquis de Sade. Richard E. Grant is bearable, just not as the Scarlet Pimpernel - he would have suited the role of Chauvelin far more. He's a very good actor, and has a brilliant line in sneers and snide one-liners, but that is why he was miscast. His thin build, receding dark hair, and sharp eyes - plus the fact that the costume people obviously liked him in dark clothing! - screamed of the Pimpernel's nemesis, and yet he was supposed to be Sir Percy. As the Scarlet Pimpernel, he was violent and arrogant, and as Sir Percy, too close to Blakeney's true personality (the 'fop' disguise was diluted. There was only one decent performance, before Robespierre in 'A Good Name', which only served to highlight what his overall portrayal was lacking). So it isn't that his acting was off, just that he was in the wrong role.

"Tony, if you talk that rubbish, I shall be forced to punch your head" - Lord Tony's Wife, Orczy

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By the sounds of it, I think your quite right! The scarlet pimpernel with sharp eyes??! dark clothing!? A violent and arrogant scarlet pimpernel???! and a non-foolish sir Percy!?!? Your completely right! not the scarlet pimpernel but his enemy!

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I love the Scarlet Pimperneal he's like Bond with out all the gadgets. I have read every book I could get my hands on I am still missing several. But for those of you who don't mind reading online Blankney Manor is really cool. The !982 version is my favorite, Anthony Andrews Sir Ian Mckellan and Jane Seymor where perfect, they should of done more adventurses with them.
"People Die But Real Love is Forever"
The Crow

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I don't really know the story of the Scarlet Pimpernel, and thought this movie would suck when ma mum was watching it, but i gradually got into it, and i'd say that on the whole, it was not too bad... ¬_¬

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You can never watch this one too many times...a day:)
Love it, Love it, Love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I'm in love with this movie.

Non sequiturs make me eat lampshades.

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I've never seen the musical. I've never read the book. I've never seen any of the movies. But by listening to Douglas Sills and the OBC alone, I think I'm turning into a fan. Now if I had the cash, I'd buy both the book and this movie.

This is weird, because I'm also an obssessed Les Miserables fan.

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I saw this movie for the first time in Drama class about 12 years ago and have loved it ever since! I paid an unGodly amount of money for the movie on VHS at Suncoast Motion Picture Co. because I couldn't find it anywhere else! I just recently ordered it on DVD from Amazon for only $14.00! What a bargain for a movie i will watch a million times! I've never read any of the books or seen any of the other films. I can't read a book after I've seen the movie for it and the other film versions I'm afraid to watch for fear of them not being as good as this version. I know I should be more open minded but I don't like change. By the way I think this Sir Percy is H. O. T. HOT!!!

"Vanity working on a weak mind produces every kind of mischief." -Mr. Knightley (Emma)

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I got the DVD of this version for Xmas! I love Ian McKellen, even though I couldn't recognise him at first! Oh, and since it was a local format (Hong Kong), it had the strangest subtitles that made no sense whatsoever. [grin]

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This is definitely the best version, but, if you can find it on DVD (anything but the Madacy version, however! Don't waste your money on that release), or it repeats on TV, do give the 1934 film a try. It's a completely different type of film, and does seem very staid compared to the Andrews/Seymour adaptation, but if you love the characters enough, it's good for a hit of the Pimpernel! Leslie Howard is a more sober Sir Percy, but his humour is sharper ('Can't rise above anything with more than three syllables, m'dear, never could'). Merle Oberon is stunning, and exotic enough to make it clear why she is the toast of London society, though she's not a great actress and doesn't get very much opportunity to demonstrate even her limited range. Anthony Bushell as Sir Andrew is very handsome. The plot sticks close to the book (perhaps too close, explaining the erratic dialogue and laboured action), however, and the era it was filmed in adds a charm that you won't find today. I know this doesn't sound good, but it's a film you should really see to appreciate.

Do stay clear of the 1998 series, especially the title episode. Not even worth an experiment. And if you can get hold of any of the books, or have enough patience to read e-texts online, go for 'Eldorado' (which was used in the 1982 film), 'The Elusive Pimpernel' (though you might itch to slap Marguerite for being so stupid, as you will with Armand in 'Eldorado'), or 'Mam'zelle Guillotine' (my favourite Pimpernel adventure, outside of the main story). I can recommend these stories, and 'The Triumph of the Scarlet Pimpernel', which is the last in the series (for Sir Percy anyway, if not Orczy). But if you're like me, it's somewhat depressing to think that the Scarlet Pimpernel is no more (I've only read that book once, for that reason).

Anthony Andrews is gorgeous as Sir Percy/the Pimpernel - he's perfect as both the lover/disillusioned husband and the gallant hero. He and Jane Seymour make a beautiful couple! I also think Ian McKellen is the definitive Chauvelin - he really gives depth to the villain, despite the change in character for both Chauvelin and Marguerite that has them as former lovers (purely an invention of this film, studiously repeated in every version ever since, including the Broadway musical).

Sarah

"Tony, if you talk that rubbish, I shall be forced to punch your head" - Lord Tony's Wife, Orczy

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It says at the beginning that it was based on 'The Scarlet Pimpernel' and 'Eldorado'. So where does SP end and Eldorado begin? And which books in the series do you recommend for a total newbie?

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'The Scarlet Pimpernel' is the story of Sir Percy and Marguerite's marriage, basically, and the misunderstandings therein. The book does not mention their courtship, except to say that he first saw her three years earlier, as he was passing through Paris on a trip to 'the east', and then returned a year later and they were married ('just like that'). Orczy's novel begins a year into the marriage, when husband and wife are completely estranged, thanks to a lack of communication. Marguerite betrayed the Marquis de St Cyr to the tribunal of the National Assembly because he had her brother beaten for sending a love letter to St Cyr's daughter, Angele. Marguerite was not set up by Chauvelin for rebuffing him, she is completely guilty of grassing on St Cyr out of spite. St Cyr is also guilty of treason, however - apparently Marguerite just didn't figure that informing the revolutionary authorities would end up with St Cyr's head on the chopping block! That's Orczy's proposed defence of her beautiful and talented heroine.

The first novel leads the film up until Marguerite enlists Sir Andrew's help in travelling to France to save Percy, after she realises the truth about his dual identity ('The Scarlet Pimpernel ... Percy ... Oh God, what have I done?') The second novel, 'Eldorado', is gradually introduced, however, by having Armand become a member of the League, and introducing his girlfriend, Louise Lange (called 'Jeanne' in the book, and a deeply annoying wench at that). The second half of the film, about the rescue of the Dauphin and dippy Armand leading Chauvelin to the Pimpernel, is from this book. Sir Percy is arrested by Chauvelin after trying to help Armand and Jeanne/Louise, but he finds himself in rather worse trouble in the book version. And Marguerite does go to his aid (the prison scene, which is rewritten in the film to include Marguerite and Percy's reunion), producing a very romantic scene between the two!

I would definitely recommend 'Eldorado'. It's a fantastic story, and very romantic, which is really all the stories are about (for me). At the time Orczy was writing, it wasn't known if the young Dauphin had survived his imprisonment in the Temple prison. It was generally thought that he had died in there (which he did), malnourished and neglected by his gaolers (and eventually left completely alone), but there were also theories that he had somehow been rescued, smuggled out of the prison with the help of Madame Simon, the wife of the man employed to watch over him. This is what Orczy builds on for her story, rewriting it so that of course the Pimpernel is behind the Dauphin's escape. However, Armand and his insipid actress girlfriend Jeanne are so deeply irritating - it's sort of the same true-love mush as Percy and Marguerite, but without any redeeming qualities in the characters for the reader to root for - that you may want to throw the book across the room as the story develops!

'The Elusive Pimpernel' is another villain-captures-hero near-miss story - and this time it's the Pimpernel *and* Marguerite who walk into Chauvelin's trap! The plot is weak, the ending is weaker, and as for Marguerite - as Chauvelin says, 'Ye Gods! the irony of it all! Had she not been called the cleverest woman in Europe at one time?' But this book is really just about the Blakeneys' relationship post-Pimpernel, and in that way, it's a fantastic romance story (it's even possible to excuse Marguerite on the grounds that she is not yet used to her husband's secret life and death wish mentality). If you read this as a sort of series of romantic vignettes, instead of a decent story, it's great fun.

I love 'Mam'zelle Guillotine', however, which is set after the two stories above. It's the story of the Pimpernel's run-in with a woman whose incarceration at the hands of an aristocratic family before the Revolution has turned her into a bloodthirsty, pitiless (and deeply unfeminine!) executioner. She buddies up with Chauvelin to capture the Pimpernel and lay hands on her own quarry, the wife of the man who had her locked up in the Bastille. The Pimpernel's disguises in this story are some of the best in the series. A very good book, I think. Definitely number one on my 'must read' list, after the title novel. Perhaps a little harder to find in book form, but there are always the e-texts.

Hope this waffle is helpful in some way!

Sarah

"Tony, if you talk that rubbish, I shall be forced to punch your head" - Lord Tony's Wife, Orczy

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Thank you! Actually, I'm not a big fan of romance, but I'm cool with it as long as it's not overly sappy or mushy. So I gather that Armand and his girlfriend are more annoying in the book than the movie? I didn't mind them too much, but the look on Armand's face when Percy said he was the Pimpernel was priceless.

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Armand is his usual pretty boy self in the book - he doesn't listen to Percy, as in the film, and tries to 'rescue' Jeanne himself, after Percy has already told him she will be safe. The one piece of information you would hope he might be able to store in his skull is that Percy can be trusted! The man's rescue tally is 100%! But no. And Jeanne - *shudders*. Louise in the film is quite resourceful and independent, but Jeanne is such a simpering ingenue (who makes you think that she must have a past full of scandalous secrets), turning Armand into even more of a fool, that you really quite hope nobody will save her from Chauvelin's henchmen. Honestly. There's a chapter consisting of Armand and Jeanne sat in Jeanne's pastel-colored parlour, staring into each other eyes, with Armand whining, 'Do you love me?' If you pick 'Eldorado' to read, I'd warily scan through some of the chapters first ...

If not the romance, what do you like about the story? It is a very good blend of romance and action. I love Percy's wooing of Marguerite ('This beholder is enchanted'), but don't like their first meeting (the soft focus close-ups of a wide-eyed Sir Percy are a bit cheesy) or Percy's 'I'm a poet' line to Chauvelin.

Sarah

"Tony, if you talk that rubbish, I shall be forced to punch your head" - Lord Tony's Wife, Orczy

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Yeah, I reached that chapter where Armand and Jeanne stare at each other. I got the e-book of Eldorado, but the format's all messed up so I'm fixing it as I read. And yes, Jeanne is much more annoying than Louise. "Oh, if your leader is so compassionate and noble, he must allow one of his team to take me to England, even if it means jeopardizing all plans of rescuing the last of the Bourbons who is currently being imprisoned by his political enemies and indoctrinated into stomping on his own flag even though he's only a kid that I really care about!"

I like SP for the action mainly, I guess. But the romance is really well-written so that's a bonus.

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I fell in love with the 1982 version when I was 8 years old, lying on the couch with flu. It happened to be on and I ended up having a little crush on Anthony Andrews :)
That then led me to read the book, and I fell in love with Tony and Andrew. It's just depressing how little there is on the net!

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I don't know how old you are now, NormalityDenied, but if you're anything like me, then it sounds as though you missed the SP boat (or yacht, in this case). It seems like the Broadway musical really reinvented Orczy's characters for a whole new set of fans, and there were fansites galore at one point. But most of the webpages are now dead links, and fans seem to be few and far between. The main site is now www.blakeneymanor.com, which has a forum too, but it's not exactly a bustling community!

Sarah

"Tony, if you talk that rubbish, I shall be forced to punch your head" - Lord Tony's Wife, Orczy

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I have been on blakeneymanor.com, it's brilliant! Well as long as there are fans on this messageboard it will keep me happy :)


"I say, Jelly, has everyone gone?" Tony, The Scarlet Pimpernel

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Compared to you two, I've probably not only missed the yacht but lost the boat schedule along with it. I fell in love with the Scarlet Pimpernel about...*checks calendar*....a month ago.

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I only discovered the wonderful film and books about a year and a half ago. What made you fall in love with the story? Strangely, I think Marguerite is a better character - and I'm still stumped as to how such a Mary-Sue can be so appealing, and not have you wanting to slap her! But I would also love to find my own Sir Percy someday ;)

Sarah

"Tony, if you talk that rubbish, I shall be forced to punch your head" - Lord Tony's Wife, Orczy

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*sigh* if only :)

I found Marguerite more of a Mary-Sue in the movies and TV adaptations, than in the books, but I agree. I don't want to slap her! Well maybe just a little one for having such a perfect life...

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I discovered it after falling in love with Les Miz quite some time back, but I didn't think much of it until my friend revealed herself to be a SP fan. I think it was the music, then the characters (esp. Douglas Sills as Percy) that made me fall in love with it. I've never really thought Marguerite a Mary Sue, at least not in the books. She's reckless, impulsive and because of that she's made a lot of potentially fatal mistakes (fatal, in St Cyr's case). Sure, at times I've wanted to shake her by the shoulders and yell "He loves you, he truly does!" or "Don't do it, dammit, it's going to be all right!" but that makes the story more interactive I guess.

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I seem to be reversing your discovery of the Scarlet Pimpernel - Orczy's stories and the film lead me to watch a West End production of Les Mis, and I've just bought the brick of a book to read as well!

I think you could be right about Marguerite - and Sir Percy, for that matter. They both have these basic failings that seem to qualify their beauty, fortune and all-over good luck, don't they? I like how Percy can be naive at times. He recovers before he can jeopardise anybody other than himself (as with Armand in 'Eldorado'), but I find myself wanting to shake him and say, 'Listen to Tony and Andrew, and ditch that person (whether a League member or the focus of a rescue mission)!' But I hate the childish hijinks that the League indulge in - throwing food, and what-not.

Sarah

"Tony, if you talk that rubbish, I shall be forced to punch your head" - Lord Tony's Wife, Orczy

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I saw some mentions of Les Mis leading you to Pimpernel. Les Mis wasn't about the French Revolution, but was (in part) about the rebellion by a group of students in 1832. Nothing to do with chopping off heads. ;)

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I know it wasn't about 'the' French Revolution (TM), but the stories just have the same feel for me. Of course, Hugo's tome could be used to prop up furniture, and Orczy's was just light weight romance, but both have survived the test of time thanks to reinvention. That's not so different. And it's the characters in stories that primarily appeal to me - but I shall withhold further comment until after I read the novel ;)

Sarah

"Tony, if you talk that rubbish, I shall be forced to punch your head" - Lord Tony's Wife, Orczy

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Congrats on buying the Brick. Some of the students, in particular Enjolras, have a great (actually, fanatical) interest in the French Revolution, and I've seen analyses comparing Enjolras to Robespierre/St Just. Now there's a guy who's as "celibate as a monk". Some of Hugo's chapters can be tedious, such as the huge long rants on the Paris sewers, the French Revolution and Waterloo, which you can skim, but on the whole it's really good. ;) When did you see the musical by the way?

Oh, and who's higher in rank? Tony or Andrew?

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I saw the musical last year on a weekend trip to London - or rather, I saw most of the musical, because we got really bad, last minute seats! I could see when everyone was on the stage, but when the actors disappeared to the front for a solo, my view was blocked by the balcony. Still, I got the gist. That's why I have the book now - I want to read the story to better understand the film/musical.

Do you mean ranks as in peerage? Tony. Andrew is a baronet, like Percy. Lord Anthony is the son of a Duke. If you mean ranks within the League, then I suppose Andrew, as he is Percy's best friend. I think Percy says in one of the books that Tony is 'terribly slow' (I don't think he means that as a slur on his friend's intelligence, but possibly!), and he can no longer rely completely on Andrew because his mawkish wife Suzanne is keeping him tied to her apron strings, so he has to do a lot more by himself (he's making excuses to Margot, I think).

Sarah

"Tony, if you talk that rubbish, I shall be forced to punch your head" - Lord Tony's Wife, Orczy

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Dear me, it looks like we're the only two people keeping this board alive.

You saw it last year, hm? When exactly? Was it the new cast with John Owen Jones, 'cause I saw it in August. I got good seats because I ordered them online, but the little disadvantage is that everything is so much louder, and John already has really powerful lungs. "Took the silver, took my FLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGHHHHHHT!!!!!" And there was Eponine (understudy); "I have never KNOOOOOOOOWN!!!!" Oops, there I go again. Back to SP.

I finished reading 'Eldorado' after reading 'The Scarlet Pimpernel' first and then coming back to it. Yes, Armand & Jeanne are ultra annoying, but unfortunately I couldn't throw the book across the room, because I'd end up chucking a couple pounds of laptop instead. I'm going to find 'Mamzelle Guillotine' now.

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It is getting a bit like a slow IM, isn't it? Never mind! I'm sure somebody else will stumble across the film and join in soon - perhaps somebody who collected their free DVD with the Daily Express last Saturday ;)

I saw Les Mis last February - I just had to do a little bit of creative Googling to recall that Joanna Ampil was Fantine in the production that I went to see, at the Queen's Theatre. She was stunning in the role (from what I could see!) Jeff Leyton was Jean Valjean, and Michael McCarthy was Javert. It was the first time I'd gone to see a stage musical, so I'll know better about booking ahead for seats next time. And I think I'd consider selling a vital organ if I could see Doug Sills and Christine Andreas in the Scarlet Pimpernel (just to get this post back on track!)

Sarah

"Tony, if you talk that rubbish, I shall be forced to punch your head" - Lord Tony's Wife, Orczy

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I'd probably sell what's left of my soul to see Doug Sills and Christine Andreas in the Scarlet Pimpernel. You're lucky though, you got to see the lovely Ramin Karimloo as Enjolras.

Sorry for all the questions, but what are Scarlet Pimpernel fans called? I mentioned it in passing to a friend, and she suggested 'Pimps'.

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I think the term 'Pimpies' was adopted for fans of the musical, but it's not a title I would choose for myself I usually just say 'SP fans', but then I also used to type out text messages in full, including punctuation!

Sarah

"Tony, if you talk that rubbish, I shall be forced to punch your head" - Lord Tony's Wife, Orczy

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'Pimpies'????? I think I'll pass. And I finished Mam'zelle Guillotine. What do you reckon happened to Gabrielle in the end? I thought she either jumped in the pool or just wandered off to live out her days in some remote area.

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I love Gabrielle. I like to think she wandered off to lick her wounds, but later turns up in England to confront Sir Percy. I don't think she knew who he was, but perhaps she falls in league with a similarly disgraced Chauvelin - who, in my mind, would want to try and find his daughter in England - and the two of them set out for a final showdown. I can just picture Gabrielle making a scene at one of the Blakeneys' balls, and announcing that Sir Percy was her lover in France!

Or perhaps I'm just a little twisted, there

Sarah

"Tony, if you talk that rubbish, I shall be forced to punch your head" - Lord Tony's Wife, Orczy

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And he'd probably say, "Me? Ha! I believe it was that crafty little Frenchman, Renard or whatshisname..."

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Odds fish m'dear! I adore it.

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