MovieChat Forums > An Officer and a Gentleman (1982) Discussion > Can someone fully explain Foley's dislik...

Can someone fully explain Foley's dislike of Mayo?


It's clear up to the point where he discovers his hidden shoes and buckles scam that Foley doesn't approve of Mayo, and when he's PT-ing him (or whatever you call it) he tells him that he isn't officer material because he doesn't give a sh*t about anyone but himself and how he lacks character. Mayo is a little bit of a loner (shown in the bit where he sits againsts the wall after finishing the assault course instead of cheering people to the finish line like a couple of the others are doing), but what exactly do people mean when they go on about character? Mayo wants to be a pilot, which isn't the same as being in charge of a infantry platoon, don't you just need the right abilities to fly an aircraft? So what if you're that much of a people person?

In WWII not every pilot was an officer, some RAF pilots were just Sergeants, isn't one of the main reasons a pilot has to be an officer nowadays something to do with the sheer cost of a modern military aircraft?

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don't you just need the right abilities to fly an aircraft?
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When he finds that Mayo is hawking "boonies" to his classmates, Foley is obviously pissed at Mayo for it and ties to badger him.

While breaking Mayo, Foley says, "You only give a *beep* about yourself and all your classmates know it. Do you think they would trust you behind the controls of a plane? You'd probably zip off in my F-15 and sell it to the Cubans."

Whether a pilot or not, when you serve your country in the military you need to be loyal and a team player as well. However, in the obstacle course scene later in the movie when instead of trying to break the obstacle course record, Mayo opts to help Seegar get over the obstacle wall and shows Foley that he has indeed "changed."

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"isn't one of the main reasons a pilot has to be an officer nowadays something to do with the sheer cost of a modern military aircraft?"
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No, I don't think so. I would think the reason why pilots have to be officers is because in modern times you have to have a college degree to be an officer. The degree signifies that you have the mental discipline to handle the rigors and challenges of working in the executive capacity as a military officer.

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"When he finds that Mayo is hawking "boonies" to his classmates, Foley is obviously pissed at Mayo for it and ties to badger him."

I know Mayo cheated with the "boonies" (?) but I think before Foley discovered this he still disliked Mayo.

"I would think the reason why pilots have to be officers is because in modern times you have to have a college degree to be an officer. The degree signifies that you have the mental discipline to handle the rigors and challenges of working in the executive capacity as a military officer."

Why is having a college degree important? Do all college graduates you meet seem particularly well-disciplined? As a matter of fact in my country (Britain) you don't actually need a degree there's a tiny minority that don't have them. Also, the main thing you need for a degree is intelligence, some people just aren't bright enough and also it's harder for people from less well-off families to get through college.

Also the question of the recruits in this film having degrees was mentioned before in another thread, and from the way this film presents Mayo's background (and academic ability) it really seems apparent to me personally that he didn't go to college. But people have said that couldn't possible because apparentely it's mandatory for all American military officers to have a college degree.

Also what exactly is a "team player"? I was never very good at sports so I don't think I've ever completely gotten this phrase.

PS. It was sheer coincidence I came here and saw your message about 2 minutes after it was posted.

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"I know Mayo cheated with the "boonies" (?) but I think before Foley discovered this he still disliked Mayo."
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Prior to discovering that Mayo was hawking "boonies" (a slang for military apparel), I don't think he "disliked" Mayo anymore than any of the other officers candidates.

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Why is having a college degree important? Do all college graduates you meet seem particularly well-disciplined?
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As I said before, a college degree usually conforms that a person has some level of intelligence and that the person has started something challenging and finished. Because of the intense demands of collegiate study, I would say that all college graduates have a fair share of mental discipline.

Similar to virtually all professional occupations in the U.S., college degrees are a mandatory qualification for candidacy as a U.S. military officer. There are government sponsored financial programs here in the U.S to assist people from lower-income backgrounds to attain higher education. Given sufficient educational background and diligent work ethic, just about anyone could graduate from college.
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Also the question of the recruits in this film having degrees was mentioned before in another thread, and from the way this film presents Mayo's background (and academic ability) it really seems apparent to me personally that he didn't go to college.
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As for Mayo being a college grad, this was confirmed at the very beginning of the movie. The morning after Mayo and his dad had sex with the Asian prostitutes in his dad's apartment, Mayo's father says to Zack, "Pretty *beep* wild. Not as wild as that night we banged those three stewardesses in Manila. Bet you didn't get it on like that in that jerkwater college you graduated from."

And after Mayo leaves the apartment to head on to officer's training school, he says to his dad, "Thanks for my graduation present," which of course is a reference to the hooker.

However, when his father describes Zack's college as "jerkwater," I would take this to mean that the college was far from an Ivy League institution. It was probably very small and not highly accredited, which may explain why Mayo had struggled in Aerodynamics in OTS and needed Cid to get him through.
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Also what exactly is a "team player"?
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This is a slang for a person who can work effectively with others to accomplish a goal, rather than work individually for selfish benefits.

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As for Mayo being a college grad, this was confirmed at the very beginning of the movie. The morning after Mayo and his dad had sex with the Asian prostitutes in his dad's apartment, Mayo's father says to Zack, "Pretty *beep* wild. Not as wild as that night we banged those three stewardesses in Manila. Bet you didn't get it on like that in that jerkwater college you graduated from."


Oh, right. Whenever I've ever watched this film on TV over the years I always miss the beginning, I might have only seen it once.

I don't think he "disliked" Mayo anymore than any of the other officers candidates.


No, there's little moments like when he passes the water crash-landing test and Foley shakes his head as he ticks him off on his clipboard. DI's in movies may never show favouritism but there's always ones they disapprove of more than others.

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"No, there's little moments like when he passes the water crash-landing test and Foley shakes his head as he ticks him off on his clipboard. DI's in movies may never show favoritism but there's always ones they disapprove of more than others."
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But during that same scene, Foley badgers Seegar after she successfully completes the crash test by saying, "But you still have to get over that wall," and after Perriman flunks the test, Foley fiercely berated him.

Similar to football coaches, D.I.s in the military, particularly Marines, are purposely sadistic. It just falls in line with the "tear-down-to-build-up" philosophy. As Foley said to the candidates on the first day of OTS, "I will use every means fair and unfair to trip you up and expose your weaknesses."

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Foley says "Well done Seagar, but you still have to get over that wall." By DI standards, that's praise. But when Mayo passes the test he doesn't say anything, he just looks at him and shakes his head witheringly, he doesn't like him.

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Ok, there is a bit of a misconception about the training presented in the film. this is not "boot camp," it's Officer Candidate School. There is a big difference, though the ultimate goal is the same, to transform a civilian individual into a professional serviceman. These men and women are being trained to be leaders, not just sailors or soldiers. Candidates undergo a rigorous screening process and must have certain prerequisites, including a college degree, from an accredited school, and possess an minimum GPA. They have to pass a physical and must take an exam and pass with a minumum score. They also have to go through an interview process. Now, at the time of the film, the Navy was undergoing a huge expansion period, so there was a big push to increase numbers. I started the NROTC program just after the movie was released and was part of a big incoming class. It's possible Mayo's background around the Navy would have helped compensate for academic deficiencies, but I suspect he was sharp enough to get decent grades in college, earned or not.

Foley's dislike stems from Mayo's lack of discipline, his lack of leadership, and his unwillingness to become part of a team. He recognized Mayo was only in it for Mayo and would most likely never work well as a team. I think he suspected that Mayo believed he could be off by himself as a pilot, rather than flying with a wingman and as part of a squadron, and that Mayo didn't understand the leadership component of being an officer. Sid had the leadership skills, but not the confidence or the psychological stability to be a pilot. Caruso's character was too afraid of the dangers of flying. Segar wanted to be there more than anyone and wouldn't quit. Foley spots this and pushes her to push herself, or she will never make it. In the dunker scene, he is both complimenting her and telling her that she still has to get past her chief barrier.

Foley's job is to weed out the candidates who don't have the material and push those that do into discovering their talents. With Mayo, he sees the liabilities, not strengths, until he pushes Mayo into admitting why he is really here and getting him to see what the program is really about. After that, Mayo begins to understand that he is part of a team and a family, something he never had. Paula is also teaching him about being part of something other than just himself, as is Sid and Segar.

This film is one of the most accurate depictions of military training you will ever find; in part becasue of the screenwriter's personal experience, and Taylor Hackford's refusal to make changes to meet the Navy's projected image. It's a warts-and-all look, and the miltary isn't fond of showing the underside of itself.

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[deleted]

Similar to football coaches, D.I.s in the military, particularly Marines, are purposely sadistic. It just falls in line with the "tear-down-to-build-up" philosophy. As Foley said to the candidates on the first day of OTS, "I will use every means fair and unfair to trip you up and expose your weaknesses."

Good Lord yes they are! Your post gave me flashbacks,lol

He is risen!


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Stuff like Full Metal Jacket notwithstanding, the DIs aren't being sadistic, usually; people's lives depend on their working as a team and carrying out viatl orders with split-second reaction. They have to instill military discipline quickly, and this is a tried and true method. Various DIs will have different styles, but the harsh commands are designed to grab attention and respect immediately. In susbequent years, the regulations governing the conduct of DIs has gotten much more stringent and someone like R Lee Ermy in FMJ would likely find himself brought up on charges after punching a recruit (unless in self defense). Foley's fight with Mayo would likely bring trouble, though I suspect any investigation would be met with silence from everyone. Even with tighter regulations, a determined DI can find a way to instill "discipline" in private heck, I know of one ship's captain, who during Captain's Mast (non-judicial punishment), was sick and tired of a sailors beligerent and disrespectufl attitude that he had everyone clear his stateroom, except the offender. All that was heard from outside was a loud smack and an equally loud thump. Everyone was called back in and the Master at Arms (navy cop) was directed to "Remove this POS from my stateroom." It didn't take much of an imagination to determine what happened, but there was no evidence for an investigation, nor was anyone likely to testify against the skipper. Most probably applauded what he did.

"Fortunately, Ah keep mah feathers numbered for just such an emergency!"

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As Foley said to the candidates on the first day of OTS, "I will use every means fair and unfair to trip you up and expose your weaknesses."
That's his job. It's not that he didn't like him; but he realised there was a hell of a lot of rough edges to smooth out and if they couldn't be evened, he would have to go. He had second thoughts after Zack confessed he had no where to go.

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I recommend you watch the film "Undercover Brother" to understand why Foley doesn't like Mayo....

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[deleted]

There was not much to like about Mayo.

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Navy officers are more than just pilots. Aside from the flying they do, they have to do all the administration and leadership that comes with being a squadron officer.

In he US, in WWII, some of the pilots were enlisted. Some of them were even women. Those were desperate times. If you watch a movie like "A Bridge too Far," you can see the difference in the types of missions officers/enlisted do.

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SpecialFlightRules.com

You may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas.

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Drill Instructors aren't born, they are individuals who have been around and can walk the walk. They have been put in the DI position to properly read, lead, and mold people.

Foley had Mayo's number (as well as everyone else's) from jump street.

Internally he most likely respected the guy very quickly, but that is not his job.

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I think he does like him- or at least he sees potential in him. He knows the only way to bring that potential out is to be hard on him.
I think Mayo could have gone either way at first... Foley realises it will be harder for Mayo than most of them

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