Hey guys, anyone else think Sir Orin was a little bit filthy? He met Melisand (sp?) when she was a little kid and thought, 'hmm I'll have a bit of that when she's older' LOL. Well at least he planned to wait til she was grown up, but still, he's a bit weird! Just a thought...
Whatever you tell me, its gone in three, c'est la vie!
Not dirty: chivalrous. Although it is one of those things they'd never dare to do if they made the same film today. You simply couldn't have a man in his thirties effectively "saving himself" for twelve years for the five-year-old girl down the road.
I don't think he was motivated by desire, though, when he made the vow - I don't think he literally said "I'll have a bit of that".* Sir Orin was an itinerant knight, no family, whose closest friend seems to have been Carolinus. I'd say his interest in Melisande was, initially, the thought that he might one day settle down, stop going around killing things and have the chance to live a quiet life.
Dating possibilities being somewhat scarce in his neck of the woods, and women liable to marry other people when he was off questing, he took the opportunity to pledge himself to Melisande, since he knew that in a dozen years, when his travelling days were over, she would be old enough to propose to - and would have been too young in the meantime for anyone else to marry.
In time, he did keep his vow and fall properly in love. And then blip! Along comes Peter and spoils it all, and she runs off to Boston to dress up like a schoolgirl and get her insanely long hair caught in escalators and such. Sir Orin got Danielle, though, so I can't help thinking he was better off.
*Before some smartarse pipes up, yes, I know he never said anything at all because he isn't real and it's only a cartoon, I'm aware of that. But if I want to take cartoons seriously that's my business!
Oh, yes, if a pig comes by Castle Dracula on a Tuesday, playing a banjo…
In Medieval times, it wasn't uncommon for girls to have their marriages arranged when they were still playing with teddy-bears. Hell, one could get married at 12! It's not that shocking that Sir Oren (sp) would have that planned, considering the time-period (type) it's set in.
If we do not know we are asleep, do we really dream?
Oh, absolutely. I've read reports of little girls being married off as young as six, in the middle ages. It's that popular cliché that childhood was "invented" by the Victorians, same as teenagers were "invented" in the 1950s.
It's just a question of how the viewer, in this case, interprets Sir Orin's intentions...
Oh, yes, if a pig comes by Castle Dracula on a Tuesday, playing a banjo…
yeah, like you said if they re-made it or made a live action version I don't think they'd have him say he'd plan to fall in love with her when she's older. In some countries people still get engaged/married really young don't they? I think...
Whatever you tell me, its gone in three, c'est la vie!
[deleted]
"I've read reports of little girls being married off as young as six, in the middle ages"
It's not a dead custom. That kind of thing still happens today in some cultures. Various governments have trie dot stamp it out, but it still goes on regularly in rural areas.
English Language Anime: Dub it, don't pervert it.
ooh, this only just occured to me! Not only did Orin plan to marry her when she was older (hence being a perv lol) but where was she meant to have a say? Then he meets someone else anyway! Men eh?
Whatever you tell me, its gone in three, c'est la vie!
Notice this, he planned to marry her when she was 'older'.
If he was a perv, he'd not have waited 10 years.
English Language Anime: Dub it, don't pervert it.
Well I've never looked at a child and thought I'd take first dibs on marrying him when he was older! It's the thought of it which is weird. You can't say it's not strange. You'd have to be desperate! Are there no other women around for him??
Whatever you tell me, its gone in three, c'est la vie!
"You'd have to be desperate! Are there no other women around for him?"
Given that he waited 10 years, he can't have been all that desperate. If he was some kind of sex starved Pedohpile, wouldn't have have tried to get in her knickers years ago?
English Language Anime: Dub it, don't pervert it.
If he wasn't desperate, why did he have to choose a child for his future bride? It's weird I tell you! Like another poster said, if they remade the film I'd bet any money they would skip over that part of the story.
Whatever you tell me, its gone in three, c'est la vie!
Come on, he's a knight, he probably had soppy girls fawning over him all of the time, and ended up falling for the one girl who didn't.
I tell you, desperate people don't wait 10 years. They take what they can get at the first opportunity.
"if they remade the film I'd bet any money they would skip over that part of the story."
If it was made in the US, they would almost certainly cut this section out, or they would change their ages to make his pledge a childhood pledge to a girl of the same age.
That kind of censorship is pretty normal nowadays, and is why US animation (with a few nootable exceptions) is going down the toilet and facing increasing international competition form Japan even in countries where they hate Japan and want to nuke it.
English Language Anime: Dub it, don't pervert it.
I live in the UK and there's no way they'd include any line in a new film that could be taken in the wrong way. Paedophilia is a very sensitive issue right now.
But look, you say he fell for the one girl who didn't fawn on him, but she was a tiny child so I should hope she wouldn't be after him in that way at her age!! Lol
"I tell you, desperate people don't wait 10 years. They take what they can get at the first opportunity."
Methinks you speak from experience? hehe
Whatever you tell me, its gone in three, c'est la vie!
I know for a fact that Flight of Dragons was broadcast uncut on Cartoon Network's Cartoon theatre slot in the UK and that it included that line about him marrying her.
It has been shown on that channel three or four time, at least two of these screenings were well after the 2002 Soham murders that sparked off the anti-pedophile craze in the papers.
The people in Britain are sensible enough to know that he wasn't letching on to her and I never heard of there being even one complaint to Cartoon Nework from parent who through that the line should have been cut from the movie or that it was in any way inapropriate.
People are over reacting, and most of them are American, I'd bet. These days, Neo-cons have everybody afraid of their own shadows, believing that pedophiles are everywhere and that perfectly innocent things are sick or perverted.
Ohhh you can show this, you can't say that, he's a pervert, it's make our kids gay if they see that, it'll traumatize them if they watch it.
Neo-cons should grow up and get their minds out of the gutter.
English Language Anime: Dub it, don't pervert it.
Yes it is often shown on Cartoon Network. I said if they remade it today, not if they show it again on some channel. Anyway someone above agrees with me that they wouldn't include the line in a remake incase someone takes it the wrong way so I can't be the only who can see how it could be interpreted. The Soham murders aren't the only event that caused the anti-paedophile craze in the UK, I believe it began with the murder of a little girl called Sarah and a campaign for Sarah's Law (our version of Megan's Law).
Orin isn't even real, it's a cartoon!!! And this thread was started as a bit of fun and most people on here have managed to take it as such and have a nice little debate. What's Neo-Con? Does it mean Neo conservative?
Whatever you tell me, its gone in three, c'est la vie!
I remember the sarah Payne murder, I was studying in the UK at the time and I saw it on the news. It raised a lot of outrage, but it wasn't until the twin murders at Soham that the paper began publishing pictures of pedophiles and things really took off.
Even then, the fear over things mistrepresented remarks wasn't really present in UK society, that didn't come in until later, and it was largely imported from the US.
"they wouldn't include the line in a remake incase someone takes it the wrong way"
The mere fact that people might think that they couldn't do this because somebody might try to turn it into something that it isn't, is a sad comentary on society. It's another form of censorship, and it's every bit as wrong as a government gaging the free press to cover its own b*tt.
"I can't be the only who can see how it could be interpreted"
No offince but, more fool you for even thinking like that. You've been exposed to whinger and whiners for too long.
"What's Neo-Con?"
A right winger (yes, a neo-conservative) who tries to enforce their own prudish views on you by tricking you into believing that something is filthy or wrong just because they don't like it.
English Language Anime: Dub it, don't pervert it.
Look, I agree that people get offended over ridiculous stuff. It happens all the time in the UK when people can't take a joke! And I have nothing against the Flight of Dragons as it is one of my favourite films. I just mean that what Orin said would cause a few giggles amongst a modern young audience watching it for the first time. You can't deny that. It made me laugh and I can't be the only one out of every single person who saw it. Well I know I'm not - a couple of other posters above say it could be read that way.
Whatever you tell me, its gone in three, c'est la vie!
It's one thing to giggle and think that it's a bit smutty when put in a modern context, but it's another to suggest that it might be OK to censor it out of a new production in case somebody thinks that it's morally wrong.
Censorship for fear of upsetting a tiny stupid and overly sensitive minority is just plain wrong. Plus it propogates the idea that Orin actually 'was' a pervert in the first place.
Suppose that you're family decided that your they didn't like your Great Uncle Bob 's new wife because she was twenty and he was 30, and removed him from your family tree. Give it a while, and you're whole family will probably come to think of him as a dirty old man, give it a generation, and they will probably think that he was a pedohpile and curse his name.
The more we give into cenorship and the vocal minority, the more that society will come to accept that they were right, and the more we will have to give into it.
I know that it's just a cartoon, but I've seen far too many good animations censored to peices for fear of neo-cons, and I'm tired of them always gettin their own way and imposing their morals on the rest of us.
English Language Anime: Dub it, don't pervert it.
I don't deny any of that. And I don't think they should censor things like Flight of Dragons. But if I have a dirty mind and giggle at the way I interpret something that's my business, and I'm not going to stop it because people think I'm being silly. I don't want them to censor it because then I wouldn't be able to laugh at it!!
Whatever you tell me, its gone in three, c'est la vie!
[deleted]
I think the point of his vow to fall in love with her when she was older was just because he's a knight. A knight chooses a lady to be in love with, not because he's a pervert or anything like that, but because he needs someone or something to fight for, someone to whom he can dedicate the piles of bodies he builds up on his adventures.
But I have to agree with you, it is a bit disturbing.
dO NoT TyPe likE ThIs...It MaKeS yOu LoOk ReT@RdEd.
This whole idea was NEVER something that occured to me and I have watched and rewatched this movie many, many times since I was a kid. I agree with the individual(s) that gave several good and reality based reasons why his vow is not out of line or inappropriate in any way. You are all entitled to your opinions, but honestly get your minds out of the gutters and stop trying to find things that can be used to spark a "debate".
shareIt wasn't for a debate it was for a laugh! Why are people so miserable!!! It's a cartoon not Schindler's List damnit!
Whatever you tell me, its gone in three, c'est la vie!
The thing we must all remember is that he said "I made a vow to fall in love with her," (and this is the important bit) "when she was old enough, of course". Arranged marriages weren't uncommon in the medieval times, especially among the upper classes (knights, peers of the realm, etc). It's only "perverted" when it's taken out of it's culture, and into ours.
Humanus es pessimus Monasteriense
Exactly! And as viewers, we are in our culture! You have to admit its a little bit funny!
Whatever you tell me, its gone in three, c'est la vie!
I for one agree with you. When I saw it recently, i had to take a double-take on that line, because I did not hear the "when she was old enough" bitty". T'was a good giggle.
Humanus es pessimus Monasteriense (Gygax, but translated to Latin)
Thanks Priormc!!!
Whatever you tell me, its gone in three, c'est la vie!
[deleted]
I've just read through all of this and I cant believe how ridiculous its got! MrsSeanBean pointed out an amusing part of the film, something that was funny because it could be taken in the wrong way. NO ONE ACTUALLY INTERPRETS IT LIKE THAT! So why cant everyone just have a giggle about it instead of using it as an excuse to rant on about censorship!? I'm sure there are plenty of message boards out there where you can have your say and people will actually appreciate what you are saying and will want to listen. However this post appears to be for people who actually have a sense of humour and want to laugh at a funny interpretation of part of a brilliant film.
I'd also like to add how quickly Sir Orin moves onto Danielle as soon as he sees her skills with a bow and arrow, and observes her pretty face (hardly a good judge of her personality!). Not that she seems to mind, as before they go to bed at the inn she points out (non too subtle) "for we may not see another night".... and later Giles says that the ogre "reached in from the window" (singular) "and took Danielle and Sir Orin" (plural) "from where they lay"
anyone else think that maybe Sir Orin didn't spend the night alone? tee hee!
Yeah, embrace the immaturity.
Thank you so much, redhottoastymuffins! It seems there are too many message board Nazi's who can't just laugh at something that's not meant to be serious, they have to turn it into a rant! Glad someone sees sense! :)
Whatever you tell me, its gone in three, c'est la vie!
I think you are all rediculous. This thread just put a huge damper on one of my favorite all time childhood movies. Stop insulting each other and embrace everyone here as fellow fans of Sir Orin and Carolinus and even that little pipsqueek Peter.
shareWell, it kind of put a dampener on it for me when a silly joke turned into a tirade of whinging by some of the message board Nazi's that live on here!
Whatever you tell me, its gone in three, c'est la vie!
I remember when they stopped showing Andy Pandy getting into his basket with Looby Lou. No kids I know thought they were getting up to naughties in there. It was only the adults with their pervy minds. So enjoy your film and ignore the whiners. I do.
^..^
I first watched this as a little girl and that line grossed me out! As an adult, I can gloss over it but at 6... eeeekk!!
shareWell he knew she was adorable as a kid and had to wait until she was 18 so he can fall for her.
"Jury Duty is my fave movie"