Ismael?


I saw the 3 hour version of this film for class, and I must say I adored it! I really need to find the 5 hour dvd either decently priced or on netflix.

But, that isn't what I wanted to talk about!

I noticed that the character of Ismael was played by a woman almost immediately when he came onscreen. Is there a reason for this does anyone know? Or was it just a casting/directorial decision? It made me quite curious, but I don't know if anyone will even know the answer!

Thoughts?

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I just saw the film today and I was wondering why this was also.

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I guess Bergman wanted to stress that Ismael is outside of normal differences, in a way "beyond Good and Evil". There is something Sacred and untameable to him, just like in Art itself.

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@ Strausszek Tue Dec 13 2005 18:15:22

Yes, I do agree. But why was he kept locked? He did not seem to be dangerous. And why his brother left Alexander alone with him?

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[...] Ismael was played by a woman [...]


It lets this character appear even more strange and creepy than he already is regarding what he's doing and saying; somehow androgynous or asexual.


Soylent Green is people!

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It isn't the only time a female plays a male supernatural being.In the Passion of the Christ, the Devil is played by a woman, to great effect.

If I hadn't read Roger Ebert's article about the movie, I wouldn't know that Ismael was played by an actress.He could pass as either a man or a woman.

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Ingmar Bergman wrote in his book "Images. My life in film":

"It is dangerous to invoke infernal powers.
In Isak's house lives an idiot with the face of an angel,
a thin, fragile body, and colorless eyes that see all.
He is able to do evil. He is like a membrane for wishes
that quivers with the slightest touch".

Bergman made this remark before screenplay was finished.

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One thing to note is that not only is Ismael played by a woman, but the Bishops aunt is played by a man. Don't know what this means but it is of interest.

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ismael (or Ishmael) is the name of abraham's illegitimate son born to hagar. this is outside the context of whats normal or accepted in society. strangely enough, when ismael and alexander are "coming together" or however you want to put what is happening, alexander's gown is taken off and it definitely has some erotic/sexual undertones. Perhaps bergman uses a woman to play this role because the sexuality of this scene would be more acceptable to the audience having a woman basically molesting the boy to help grant his wish of killing the bishop.

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I see what you mean, although the "molesting" or intrusion is more on a mental plane. In one way, Ismael represents the chaotic forces that any major artist has to face and "bring to be his own" - he's contrasted with Aron (played by the son of the director, Mats Bergman) who is also exploring Art, in a more acceptable way.
I remember an author saying, you're able to become a truly creative writer if you can take the risk of losing control, of losing yourself for a while and emerging on the other side of the tunnel with what you got. Alexander faces that risk here, perhaps for the first time. He gets in touch with the power of his wishes and the magic of Art.

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I don't know, but yes he's definitely one of the most mesmerizing characters in this already very rich story, and it's good that people have called out the casting similarities to "Passion of the Christ" (a film which I'm sure was influenced by the gender-bending casting in this, but which many of us have--for better or for worse--probably seen first).

Yes, I agree with the logistics, that to a degree maybe the character is portrayed by a woman to help excuse the erotic way he touches the young/underage actor who's playing Alexander. But ultimately I think it helps emphasize how enticing a character/the supposed evil he represents IS to Alexander, in that he somehow helps validate/enable Alexander's rage & vengeance against his much-despised father-in-law, to finally kill him and set his mother (and his family as a whole) free from his grasp.

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I was thinking that maybe Ismael was a hermaphrodite - neither a woman, nor a male and it made people scared because they didn't know how to approach such a person and they preferred to keep him/her out of their sight. Because people always feared what they didn't understand, just like the supernatural powers possessed by this person.
I also remember that angels were creatures without defined sex, and a devil was a fallen angel after all. So the people might have been afraid that Ismael was a devil.

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I also remember that angels were creatures without defined sex, and a devil was a fallen angel after all. So the people might have been afraid that Ismael was a devil.


This makes the most sense to me personally.

"Confess quickly! If you hold out too long you could jeopardize your credit rating."

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The name Ismael, from the Hebrew Ishmael, means God will hear him. Abraham was, according to scripture, ordered by a messenger of God to name his child this and, later, when Sarah had him throw Hagar and his son out and they were dying of exposure in the desert God heard his cry and saved them. Ismael's character is the personification of wish fulfillment to be delivered from the stark and harsh wilderness that is life under the Bishop's roof. I suspect that the name was chosen before the idea of casting a woman in the role, especially since Yitzchak, or Isak, was the name of Abraham's other son and means he laughed, which is a statement of the pleasure which Yitzchak gave to Abraham upon his birth and may also refer to the pleasure that Isak gives to the Ekdahl matriarch.

The woman, with eyebrows shorn, was perfectly androgynous which probably has separate significance from the name. This may have been a reference to the kabbalistic interpretation of God as having jointly male and female aspects or to the Jewish tradition of angels being androgynous. Aron is an atheist and does not believe in mysticism whereas his brother seems to be savagely steeped in it.

Her appearance as Ismael also created an illusion of not only youth but illness as well, which may be the real reason for her being casted in the role. We are not given a sense of age for either of Jacobi's nephews but Ismael does seem to be the younger of the two. Aron has just played several tricks on Alexander and this may simply be another one of them seeing as they were the children of magicians. Keep in mind that the film is shot from Alexander's perspective so the fantastical elements may be considered more his interpretation of what is happening to him rather than anything else (remember the moving statue in the prologue that had returned to normal after his the maid made noise dumping coal or the vomiting ghosts in the Bishops attic which left no trace when Emilie came for him), in which case we may interpret the scene with Ismael as an fantastical elaboration of his attempts to kill the Bishop with his mind with Fanny earlier in the film. This is supported by the appearance of the Bishop's ghost toward the end as a manifestation of guilt that he sneaked cookies but also from guilt that he had caused the death.

Of course I could be wrong and am not a film scholar.

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This is a brilliant answer!

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Nice post.

Keep in mind that the film is shot from Alexander's perspective so the fantastical elements may be considered more his interpretation of what is happening to him rather than anything else (remember the moving statue in the prologue that had returned to normal after his the maid made noise dumping coal or the vomiting ghosts in the Bishops attic which left no trace when Emilie came for him), in which case we may interpret the scene with Ismael as an fantastical elaboration of his attempts to kill the Bishop with his mind with Fanny earlier in the film. This is supported by the appearance of the Bishop's ghost toward the end as a manifestation of guilt that he sneaked cookies but also from guilt that he had caused the death.
I agree with this. Ismael has been built up in Alexander's mind and, assuming that what precedes was not a dream, then the encounter with Ismael is going to be felt as weird. Throughout the film allusions are made to the distinction between artists and others as well as imagination. The whole experience that night was fantastical, for the audience as well as Alexander.
A bird sings and the mountain's silence deepens.

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I think I agree AND disagree with cab1979-1's remark!

I think it's really fairly straightforward: Bergman probably chose to have an ACTRESS play the male role of Ismael specifically so that people would NOT interpret the scene as some sort of homosexual contact between this mysterious older male and the adolescent boy.

I think he wanted there to be a PSYCHOLOGICAL and emotional bond forming between the two youths, and wanted them to stand in this intimate embrace without anybody misunderstanding and thinking that a sexual touching was taking place.

The scene was meant to capture a deep intimacy between the two characters, but not a specifically SEXUAL intimacy--and with a male actor playing the role, especially a role that is pale and thin and delicate and peculiar, an audience was almost certain to misunderstand and get hysterical.

This scene, I think, is in sharp contrast to the terrifyingly rape-like punishment of Alexander by his step-father; THAT scene was clearly MEANT to frighten us with its homoerotic cruelty--and did! For this climactic scene to work, though, such anxieties had to be entirely silenced, and since the film is full of stylized theatrical conventions, and characters who are like actors in make-up and costume, playing roles, Bergman brilliantly elects to employ the old and ultimate role-playing convention, that of one sex playing another.

I think it's important also to parallel this mysterious scene with the one in which Alexander and Fanny pray, impotently, in their locked room, that the Bishop may fall down dead--and are very chagrined that the continue to hear him practicing his flute!

Ismael is showing Alexander how to pray more EFFECTIVELY in this scene--and the irony, of course, is that the man who teaches him to pray is neither Christian nor "good"--as the Bishop, supposedly is--and is not even a man, but a character in a play, played by an actress who is nothing like Ismael. We are forced to "believe" what is happening...and Alexander is made to believe...and, in that belief, he develops a power to take control of his life and shape it.

I'm glad someone's question made me think more carefully about all this.

Very good film.

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Yes, I think cab1979-1 is absolutely right. The ambiguous scene in which Ismael holds the adolescent boy in his arms, naked, would undoubtedly have been grossly misunderstood, had Ismael been played by a handsome male actor.

The entire night scene at the home of the Jew, Isak, is shot through with an undercurrent of male tenderness and a certain amount of homoerotic imagery, I think, but I don't think the point is eroticism so much as an all-male "rite of passage" retreat.

I believe that the whole point of introducing the somewhat foreign home of the Jewish antiquarian is to direct our attention to something very fundamental and basic and historical--"deep in the race" as it were. I think this is also the reason for the introduction of the ancient, breathing mummy.

Both the scenes with Aron and the scene with Ismael is filled with a tender closeness between the soft youth and the older man "initiating" him--exposing him to his fears, helping him face and confront what threatens him, etc.

While the actions of the scenes with Aron didn't get so touchy as to mislead the audience, had a male actor played Ismael, an audience could easily be misled into thinking that the point of the scene was that Ismael was engaging in sexual congress with the boy--which isn't really what is going on in the scene: there is a supernaturally deep intimacy, and the boy exposes himself, making himself even more vulnerable than he was in the previous act, when he was exposed to the ferocious anger of the Bishop--but it is not a SEXUAL vulnerability, it is a SPIRITUAL one.

By having a female actress portray Ismael, Bergman skillfully turns the audience's impression AWAY from the possibility of an adult male's feelings of LUST and sexual pleasure--and toward the spiritual union that is taking place between Alexander and the imprisoned poetic spirit hidden in the home of the ancient Jew, singing in the night, and, from his prison cell, capable of immolating a vicious man and ending the nightmare he wreaks on three innocent, child-like creatures--through the power of his artistic vision alone.

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Absolutely, the events of that night are rites of passage, mental rather than erotic passages. And I don't think it's any coincidence that it's in events connecting with the Jacobi family that the film makes its most decisive breaks with the "costume drama" mould, which it could superficially seem to fit into. Ismael, the mummy, the magical escape from the Bishop's house don't belong within any kind of BBC costume series framework. They push the supernatural and magical inside the story (very few other Bergman films merge the realistic and the supernatural in this opulent way).

In the published script, written like a fully fleshed-out story, Bergman begins the directions for that night by a remark which hints that what follows is the crossing of a vital threshold by Alexander: "The same night, Alexander is visited with three strange experiences which he will never talk about to anyone."

Mr.Hitler has made life very difficult for Shakespearian companies.

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If Ishmael represents the fulfillment of desires, then it could have a psychoanalytic meaning, possibly as a symbol of the hermaphroditic nature of the human psyche, considered as the unity of both conscious and unconscious, or in the animus/anima from the theory of C. G. Jung.
The hermaphrodite is a widely employed symbol in the occult tradition, signifying the union of opposites, female and male, yin and yang, unconscious and conscious, the one and the many, Aphrodite and Hermes.
At the end of the movie (3 hrs. version), it is cited the beginning of August Strindberg's play, "A Dream Play" - which also has strong links to psychoanalysis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Dream_Play

"Everything can happen; everything is possible and likely." (A. Strindberg, A Dream Play)

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