what the hell?


Ok so i'm open to 'different' movies but this one, well it was a tad of a shock especially to see sting as the main character. I'm a bit confused..Who was the man at the end who sting or Martin -i should say- walked away with? Was sting meant to be the devil. Amd when patricia woke up from her retardness after Sting raped her and told her to 'shut up bitch' and she said how could you to her dad, does that mean that her dad used to rape her? Why is everyone saying sting was a theif? He was just a sick guy staying in some old peoples home so he could have sex with a retard person, without the rejection.
Someone reply to my confusion.

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When she snapped out of her disposition she said to her dad how could you...and with that woman. this was the last thing she saw before she had gotten hit by the truck, And the first thing she remembered when she woke. her dad had an affair with his secretary or assistant er what have you.

About the man at the end.... My two beliefs about him are that 1 he is just another conman and martin was giong to get a taste of his own medicine. the other is a little more next level because in the movie the dad talking to his wife questions is he an angel, or a devil. he could have been one or the other. think on this, on one hand Martin could have been an angel,sent on a mission sent to free her from her comatose state but was corrupted by his time on earth developing a sadistic infatuation for her and did what you saw at the end of the movie, when he saw that man there was a look of startled recognition he could have been the big guy upstairs ready to take him to the proverbial woodshead. Or martin could have simply been a demon sent to bedevil the bates's home for what the father did and call him out on what he did.

thats my thoery on who the man at the end is and what martin is it may be over thought or too obscure but its just an opinion.

cool movie though..........

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Also, the speech Martin gives to Denholm Elliot at the beginning of the movie is almost word for word the same speech Cary Grant gives in the Bishop's Wife, where he is sent by God to help Loretta Young regain her faith and initiates contact with the family by bumping into (I think) David Niven. He falls in love with her but completes his mission and leaves, if you take that into account maybe this is the story of a similar mission with an angel who becomes a personal failure but still manages to get the job done in spite of himself. I just got the DVD, I had pre-ordered it. I haven't watched it in five or six years, I'm looking forward to watching it and the Bishop's Wife together, if I ever have time!

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I have actually seen this film more times than I can count. As far as Martin's encounter with the man at the end of the film, I think it pretty much answers the question of whether Martin is a tool of good or evil. The film begins with Martin exiting a church amongst a gaggle of choir boys and he looks about hungrily as if he is loose on the prowl.
He scans people asking himself "which one will it be" and attempts to latch on to someone before he stumbles across Mr. Bates.
There are SEVERAL references to miracles through the dialogue, especially between Mr. and Mrs. Bates. As they are arguing about whether or not Patty can or ever will understand and think again, Martin is hiding outside.
After Martin has managed to worm his way inside he passes the picture of Jesus and subtly ducks like a child trying not to be spotted while sneaking out. Mr. Bates at one point says "you could be the devil himself" and later when Martin points this comment back to Mr. Bates, Mr. Bates is physically rattled. He also says to Mr. Bates that as soon as he saw the state of affairs in their home, he knew he had a job.
He delivers a sermon for Mrs. Bates and Patty that literally brings the force of nature into the home as if his words are invoking the power of the lord. He is very comfortable with discussing god and even states that his mother is "safe in the arms of Jesus". This is not the behavior one would expect from a demon or some other "evil" spirit.
As for the revival of Patty. I think it is worth mentioning that she does not recover from the "rape" and freak out that she has just been raped... rather, the first thing she addresses is the infidel act committed by her father that has ruined her family, made her father an athiest and put her in front of a lorrie that crippled and silenced her for so long.
The lord works in mysterious ways.
And while we are still scratching out head, Martin stumbles into a priest, not a commoner, who tells him that they have been looking for him and that the Bishop has been crying his eyes out since he has been gone... at least the one good eye... Why would the church and bishop be looking for Martin if he didn't belong in their custody in the first place?
I think Martin is one of those mischievious little angels that does that work of god where other angels dare not tread.

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I agree with abrown. I've just bought and watched this movie quite a few times. I like Sting. I think he is very good in this role. I look at this almost as divine intervention - he saves the family - Treacle means remedy. So the character of Martin is both Brimstone (say demented) and Treacle - remedy. I like abrown's comments about his being an angel of sorts to rescue this family from their melodrama and misdeeds - and fees them in the end. An interesting movie.

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Hi, just came across the attached. Have no other reason to contact you other than that your comments on IMDB suggested you would be interested! It's a production of Brimstone & Treacle in London in July and August - apparently the first largescale production of it in London since its opening there in 1979! It sounds pretty damned good and I'll be trying to get along myself!

http://www.bridewelltheatre.co.uk/Shows/BrimstoneAndTreacle.htm
http://www.1066productions.com/bookings

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Patti walked on on her Dad and secratary in a comprimising position.She was so shocked she ran outside into the path of a car.

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I haven't seen the film, only the original banned television drama. I thought the idea of the film was how good can come from such evil. Martin is the Devil and in the act of raping Patricia, he "cures" her. I suppose whether this was deliberate or not is still up for debate.

I'm not sure how much the two interpretations differ, but as they're from the same text by Potter, I doubt they're wildly different.

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how graphic is the rape scene. i heard it is a good movie and have the opportunity to buy it cheap (cant find a video store that even heard of it)
but with children in my house... is it "i spit on your grave graphic" or "mr. belvedere" suggestive?

we need a healing aloe plant...

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Hi, Bony,
Don't know if you even got an answer.

I saw Brimstone and Treacle years ago but it made a rather lasting (slightly distasteful) impression on me. The rape seen is pretty graphic: we see Sting's (25 year old) naked butt from an overhead camera as he rapes the girl lying unconscious beneath him. As I recall, the scene was a little ethereal, the girl's legs may not even have been separated. It was also very brief because as soon as he is supposed to have entered her, she wakes and starts screaming.

As an object lesson, I would keep this story out of the hands of younger viewers (I'm the mother of 4 young adults), as it almost-but-not-quite implies that the rape is the best thing that could have happened to the girl. As a nurse, the girl's condition in this state of suspended animation is also ridiculous; it's a fantasy film. I mean, maybe if she became catatonic as a result of her daddy's dalliance, you could accept it in part, but she was run down by a freaking bus, folks.

A goodish film, but not for everyone.

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ABROWN knows what they're talking about! Good analysis :O)

But can you make sense out of that prayer? Did it REALLY have that affect.. like with the dead bird and shaking house etc... because when it showed outside, it was fine and quiet... it was a bit confusing.

Thanks

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I believe that Sting was just a con man...I know there are several debates as to whether he was good or evil. I think he was a slightly tetched, conman. He got his way into the house, the dad felt guilty of all that he was doing, especially since his daughter was a vegetable because she was hit by a truck after running out after catching him and was STILL doing his secretary. He didn't WANT Martin in his house, and was very suspicious, but couldn't really say too much.
I saw this movie when I was about 15 at a midnight movie and I was completely in love with Sting at the time. There must be different versions, or the photos they took from the film to promote it show slight variations at least. I just loved seeing his bum. HA!
But it was an odd movie, and I'll never forget his description of an egg.
Liked it, I would own the DVD if I could find it, but more because I'm a fan of Sting.
I did see another movie that was done by the same guy. Dennis Potter called Track 29 And there was another "angel or demon" character named Martin. I always wondered if it was the continuation of Brimstone. Since he "helped" a woman.
Just my two bits thrown in.

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Well they say in the original play that the Martin character was supposed to be a demon or the Devil himself. And that in the teleplay, that he casts sinister, knowing glances at the audience to hint at his true character.

The ending did have me wondering wether or not he was a wayward angel, or a demon being collected by his superiors. But i'm sure to the English, that the idea of a corrupted church and clergy is not a strange or foreign one. So take that for what you will. The overall imagery seems to hint at devilry however. I don't believe an angel would rape an invalid girl as an example of 'God working in mysterious ways'. And the preaching scene seemed to bring to mind some kind of anger or outrage at the Martin character daring to use scripture to bolster his lies and mindgames.

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She says 'how could you??' because she caught her father with the secretary having sex, that's all. The bus hit her, but that is not what caused her to become almost catatonic; it was her discovery of that occurence.....Sting is not THE devil; he is a demon, but 'sent' by heavenly forces. We first see him exiting a CHURCH, this shows, despite he is a 'negative' being, he will be used to cause a miracle to happen, though not because he is 'trying' to.....he also represents the father's guilt. At the end a drunk clergyman makes several references to 'the Bishop', who is sad he has not been seen lately.....the drunk clergyman 'guides' him back to the church.

This movie is about guilt and how we can only be free of sin and guilt when it comes out into the open.....the moment the truth comes out, evil loses it's power. In the end, Martin is simply the inevitable result of hiding our guilt...and what happens when we do.

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I've just seen the movie and although I read that in the original play, Martin was described as "the devil or at least he thinks he is", I personally don't believe he is THE devil.
He definitely has some higher power - so he could be both, a fallen angel or a demon (actually, the difference between the two is not so big anyway) but I don't think he has enough power to be the devil. During the whole film he seems to act totally spontaenously, without having any plan or any goal (it's only when he sees Patty that he wants to possess her, but why did he come to the Bates's house in the first place, the rape cannot be his goal). Plus, he doesn't achieve anything from his actions. I mean, seriously, he cannot even properly rape the girl. If he really was the devil, this would be the lamest devil I've ever seen. ; )
If he is an angel, who's just lost his way, then the clergyman at the end is one of his teachers, guiding him back into the community of angels, giving him a second chance.
If he is a demon, then he still has a lot to learn until he will become really "bad" or successful in his "business" and the clergyman is one of his teachers as well (probably the one who taught him this whole "fany-bumping-into-you strategy"), taking him back into the arms of the community to give him some more demonic lessons.

Anyway, Sting is the most charismatic, hottest young demon ever! : D

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My idea of health is a coffee without sugar! (Ray Kowalski)

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The original play makes it abundantly clear that he is the devil.

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I'm admittedly late to the party, but I've brought extra insight to compensate.

1) As many have pointed out, Patty caught her dad and Ms. Holsworth in a compromising position, got drilled by the truck moments later, and her brain "locked". When Sting "unlocked" it, she picked up right where she left off.

2) I had the honour of playing Thomas Bates in a local production of "B & T"...it was the unanimous decision of the creative / directive element of the production that Martin was the devil himself. May I quote the opening line from "Macbeth"..."When shall we three meet again??"

3) It's the embodiment of "Winning the battle and losing the war"...sometimes, the greatest good inadvertently results from the perpetration of the most unspeakable evils. The "theme" then becomes the triumph of good over evil.

Completely unrelated: I'm currently watching the 2nd ever episode of "Dalziel and Pascoe", featuring Ms. Holsworth and Prunella Scales ("Fawlty Towers") as a devilshly demonic duo!

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