MovieChat Forums > Blade Runner (1982) Discussion > I don't see why the Voight-Kampff test i...

I don't see why the Voight-Kampff test is needed at all...

posted 4 years ago by sati_84 (441)
23 replies | jump to latest

In the movie, the police chief goes through all the available data of the replicants: their names (Pris, Zhora, Leon and Roy), their photos and their "DOB". Yet, at the beginning, Leon is shown taking the test. In Tyrell Corp. of all places - shouldn't they have the data on all the manufactured replicants? Roy and co. did not even bother to even change their names! So when Leon is tested, why do they need this needlessly convoluted procedure when a simple photo would be enough to ID the guy?

Also, if name and photo doesn't cut it, there would be a million other ways to create some biometric identification for them. For example their eyes were manufactured by the Asian guy as seen later in the film. So how about a simple retinal scan? Or unique fingerprints? Or something more convenient and more exact than this V-K nonsense?

Is there an in-universe explanation for this?

[–] moviechatterer (13280) 4 years ago

Well , Tyrell bangs on about "more real than real" is our motto , or some shit.
The gist being people in the future want their unfeeling possibly psychotic robots to be indistinguishable from the real thing , like totally indistinguishable , for some reason.
So its market driven.
That doesent explain why the govt hasnt intervened and demanded some sort of designed in ID method, like an rfid chip , or a numberplate tattoo.

I know corporations are more powerful than govt in this future etc , but even so . it wouldn't be a big thing to implement
I'd rather have that than my robot having a built in 3 year lifespan - like a cheap washing machine.
Planned obsolescence as its called today

[–] sati_84 (441) 4 years ago

The gist being people in the future want their unfeeling possibly psychotic robots to be indistinguishable from the real thing , like totally indistinguishable , for some reason.

Your argument seems to be the followint: Leon was manufactured, escaped from wherever they used him for whatever purpose, then went back to Tyrell Corp... and at Tyrell Corp no one said: "Hey, you're one of our replicant models!" just by looking at his face? Or if there are so many replicant models, we still come back to the photo / biometric identification. These can be of course circumvented by plastic surgery or eye implants or whatever, but the replicants didn't go for either solution, as we know, and this is what bothers me.

[–] moviechatterer (13280) 4 years ago

I assume they hjad virtually infinate faces (but again .. why?)
Basically it cant be that hard to NOT make a robot indistinguable from human.
Why didnt they just giver it a full steel chassis like the terminators?
Then the bladerunners could just xray it.

Answer - people wanted their artificial people to be incredibly hard to identify ...... no sensible reason for given.

[–] aavfreak (2861) 3 years ago

Well , Tyrell bangs on about "more real than real" is our motto , or some shit.
The gist being people in the future want their unfeeling possibly psychotic robots to be indistinguishable from the real thing , like totally indistinguishable , for some reason.
So its market driven.

You or I or any other living person is as real as any other human. Yet, we can all be positively identified simply and quickly. The whole idea that they are as real as humans makes no difference in the identification process.

The OP has a valid point. There is no need to determine if they are not human, if all they need to do is identify them as individuals. And since they haven't changed their names or appearances, why wasn't it immediately obvious? There wouldn't even be a need for finger prints or retinal scanning or DNA testing or license plate tattoos or whatever.

[–] moviechatterer (13280) 3 years ago

This is true , i see what you mean - and they already had "wanted posters" with the required faces on them i think.

[–] pjl69 (2430) 4 years ago

I have thought the same some time. I think the voight-kampff test is more essential for the philosophical questions movie is asking about (artificial) life rather than story and realism.

[–] sati_84 (441) 4 years ago

OK, I can accept that, and it eventually comes down to how much slack are you willing to cut for the plot to work. But I would've liked a bit more detail on how the replicants made sure they will not be detected easily, and this could have been addressed - as the opening scene presents a ludicrous scenario in which the Tyrell employee fails to identify one of their own replicants, who didn't change anything about his appearance.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

Just a guess on my part... it has been a long time since I've seen the movie.

i. Maybe they didn't have the info initially. Suspicions led them to believe Leon was a Replicant. They send a blade runner to run the test, positively ID him as a Replicant. But Leon kills the blade runner and escapes.

Once they have Leon identified though, they are able to positively ID the rest by association... i.e. the Replicant posse that he ran with.

or maybe...

ii. The whole Replicant process seems a little vague. They appear to be grown from human DNA, but stripped of emotional content. So maybe the test is more to confirm that they haven't acquired emotions, i.e. that they are STILL true Replicants. If they somehow acquire emotions maybe under the law they would have to arrested and afforded civil rights under due process. But, with no emotions, they can be terminated promptly since they are simply property.

Spit ballin' some top-of-my-head ideas...

[–] sati_84 (441) 4 years ago

i. Maybe they didn't have the info initially. Suspicions led them to believe Leon was a Replicant. They send a blade runner to run the test, positively ID him as a Replicant. But Leon kills the blade runner and escapes.

I like this guess! Still, I expected more effort from the filmmakers to explain why they didn't recognize him at first, considering Tyrell Corp itself manufactured him, they must know his face...

ii. The whole Replicant process seems a little vague. They appear to be grown from human DNA, but stripped of emotional content. So maybe the test is more to confirm that they haven't acquired emotions, i.e. that they are STILL true Replicants. If they somehow acquire emotions maybe under the law they would have to arrested and afforded civil rights under due process. But, with no emotions, they can be terminated promptly since they are simply property.

I like this trail of speculation even more! I'm willing to entertain this thought, however there is nothing in the movie supporting this. It's a nice idea to give them rights, and I think the script should have included some lines about it, but as it stands now, that outcome was not considered to be valid. It was either Deckard catches and kills them or don't. There was no mention of the possibility of them getting due process at all. Still, I like this as a concept.

[–] BourbonKing (5612) 4 years ago

This is a silly top post.

Why aren't you in the "A new Hope" forum asking why they need "data tapes" when they could use cloud computing or any other form of flash media to transfer the attack plans on the death star?

In case you aren't aware, this is an alternate future story, not one built on an exact projection of the future. Even the sequel plays on the original story's premise that this is a post-apocalyptic society where the Soviet Union never collapsed in 1989.

[–] sati_84 (441) 4 years ago

Why aren't you in the "A new Hope" forum asking why they need "data tapes" when they could use cloud computing or any other form of flash media to transfer the attack plans on the death star?

There is a difference between the two.

In Star Wars, Princess Leia is a competent character, and given her situation it's obvious she is choosing the most efficient method of data transformation to the rebels - considering the circumstances. For all we know, she could have tried to radio the plans, but the Empire was on their tail for quite some time before they boarded her ship, so likely all frequencies were monitored by them, or jammed. A throwaway line could have explained why they couldn't broadcast it wirelessly. For example when Vader is choking that guy, he could have said: "We jammed all your transmissions, so we know the plans can only be stored on tapes / disks. Where are they?"

This line is not in the movie, so we come back to character competence and motivation. She chooses to insert the plans physically into Artu, and we need to trust the character's decision.

That aside, the greatest problem with the beginning of Star Wars is the fact that the escape pod with the droids was not vaporized by the imperials. I mean the officers detecting the launch must know that the tapes / disks are not emitting life signatures, so... it's a pretty weak justification they give for not shooting it. But in-universe this can be a sign of insufficient communication down the ranks. Maybe their order was not to "shoot down every escape pod", just "prevent anyone escaping from the ship", and this poor wording led to the fall of the Empire. Which is dramatically OK if you think about it. Also, maybe they didn't even know what their mission is (to get the DS plans back).

In BR, a guy gets tested if he is a replicant at the very corporation which manufactured him. Are we seriously to believe Tyrell Corp. doesn't keep the photo and name of all replicants they create?

[–] Moonglum9 (10709) 3 years ago

In this deleted scene, it shows why they didn't shoot the escape pod:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLJTgvKFZoQ

[–] sati_84 (441) 3 years ago

Haha, good one :-)

[–] ProgsReturn (1760) 4 years ago

Somehow the 4 replicants figured out that they were replicants... not sure how...

Another poster has already mentioned the 'More human than human' motto, I'd like to add that someone taking a psychological test would be more preferable than, say being scanned by some bit of equipment, otherwise everyone could potentially scan themselves and determine if they were a replicant, thus undermining Tyrell's goal. In any case, I feel the theme of the movie is what is separating a human from artificial intelligence (can I say that? ) rather than something practical like slapping a manufacturing plate on every replicant ever made.

[–] moviechatterer (13280) 4 years ago

You're right about the theme, but the replicants do know they are replicants, this is what makes "Rachel" special - she's the first one that doesent know and hence takes a lot more questioning on the test to get a result.

[–] ProgsReturn (1760) 4 years ago

Now you've said the obvious, I feel like a doofus for not realising that sooner...

[–] sati_84 (441) 4 years ago

I get the arguments about the theme of the movie. And I like them, and agree with them.

This thread is about a possible in-universe explanation however, which is problematic, once you think about the fact that the faces and names of the replicants must be already known by Tyrell Corp, seeing as they themselves manufactured them...

[–] cyguration (3842) 3 years ago

They were old units, though. Used for replication on mining colonies in space (hence Roy's soliloquy at the end).

Think about how many variant units they may have made over a four year period between the time they produced Roy's group and all the newer ones they have? That's not to mention that replicants were made similar to fleet vehicles. So while it might be easy to know that someone has a commercial fleet vehicle from an automaker just by looking at it, it requires a lot more effort to find out what dealership it may have been acquired from or what plant it was manufactured at.

In this case, in the movie the police weren't entirely sure that Roy/Leon and co., were replicants, hence why they sent a Blade Runner to give Leon a test to be sure.

Tyrell wasn't entirely forthcoming about the replicants either (such as withholding information about the way they shed skin), because it was a business for them. Making it easier for Blade Runners et al to track down their products would make their products less desirable (hence why in Blade Runner 2047 they explain that newer replicant models are designed to be more compliant).

It's no different than how Apple, Google, etc., don't make it easy for law enforcement to bypass security measures on phones and don't help them do so when requested (as evident with the one case where Tim Cook told the FBI he wasn't going to give them backdoor access to the iPhone in their possession).

Simply put: Tyrell was, in some ways, rooting for their own creations to outwit/outsmart the police and the company was not going to help them. Hence the speech that Tyrell gives to Roy when they come to his penthouse about Roy being perfect; despite Roy's murderous spree, Tyrell has a god complex and is more enthused at the prospect of creating "perfection" than doing the right thing and turning in his creations to the Blade Runner(s).

[–] sati_84 (441) 3 years ago

"So while it might be easy to know that someone has a commercial fleet vehicle from an automaker just by looking at it, it requires a lot more effort to find out what dealership it may have been acquired from or what plant it was manufactured at."

This is nice and all, but people don't work like that. I mean when Leon was taking the test, there were two possibilities - either he is human or he is a replicant. But right out of the gate he can't be human, since he looks like a "fleet vehicle", and does not look like someone who is actually a human.

I think you mean there was no way for the guy Leon murdered to ID replicants at a glance, since he would have had to keep thousands of faces in mind. I can buy that for exactly one second. One second is all it takes to browse Leon's headshot out of a computer database. I mean this is the future we are talking about, and besides, the Replicant Check Work Instruction Document must contain a line that "if the subject looks like one of these models, pictured on the 2600 photos in this database, don't waste your time doing a test". No matter how I try to slice it, the opening scene is getting sillier and more absurd every turn.

I fully agree with your other comments though. As I said earlier I am aware of the film's themes, and what you wrote about Tyrell's motivations is matching my interpretation as well. This doesn't change however the absurdity of the opening scene in my eyes.

[–] AP (5258) 4 years ago

I always assumed it was for confirmation? If they just snatched a guy who looks like a Replicant, that would be an issue. They need probable cause. Keep in mind, the Replicants are to be killed on site. They can’t take the chance of shooting an innocent man. Approaching him and asking “hey are you a killer robot by chance?” would also be a bad idea. The test seems like the safest method. Deckard seems to use a similar method when he tracks down Zora at the strip club even though he knows exactly who she is.

Beyond that, we see several people taking the test at once in the opening scene. Seems like standard protocol for off-world travel. It’s a normal part of customs in the future, I imagine.

[–] franticfrog (0) 4 years ago

[deleted]

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

Best not to ask questions like this. Blade Runner is a master class on atmosphere, a world you visit. The story's just not that important.