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Poor Stephanie always getting disciplined by Joanna


I think Joanna is a bit hard on Stephanie in many episodes. She is always scolding Stephanie. I understand she's the boss, and obviously supposed to boss her around to some extent-- but doesn't it seem as if Joanna is too bossy sometimes?

Maybe that was the point the writers were trying to make. That Joanna and Dick had to be the opposite of the Vanderkellens. In a way, the Loudons are more the kind of parent figures Stephanie should have had growing up. And when she takes the job at the inn, she is learning to become a real person with a real set of values-- something the Loudons can help teach her.

But many of the stories show Joanna being a bit too pushy, always trying to correct Stephanie.

The relationship between Dick and Michael is not written this way. Sure, Dick gets exasperated with Michael's shenanigans, but he is more accepting of Michael's faults, not trying to correct them all the time.

As a result of Joanna being more uptight than Dick in this regard, I find Joanna to be one of the least sympathetic characters on the show. I think Mary Frann does a good job with a mostly thankless part, but the character is just not very fun. I start to feel sorry for Stephanie when Joanna is cracking the whip.

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No one but Joanna and Dick would've put up with Stephanie. They were way too soft on her. I thought of her as a brat that was constantly putting down her employers for their looks, their age, and even their lack of blueblood background. Were we watching the same show? Stephanie could be funny at times, but I found her the least likable character on the show, including obnoxious Kirk.


Dini

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I get what you're saying. And yes, if it was real life, nobody would stay at an inn where the maid was so obnoxious. It would lead to such bad word of mouth, that the Loudons would be forced to fire her. So obviously the writers are exaggerating her character flaws for humor and she is probably the least realistic character on the show.

But given the context of that, where Stephanie's actions are excusable-- it just seems like if Joanna is going to help humanize her, Joanna could be a little more tactful. Instead, Joanna is like a hovering mother in many scenes, waiting for Stephanie to foul up so she can come down hard on her. It makes Stephanie someone the viewer ironically sympathizes with (when we shouldn't sympathize with her behavior at all); and it makes Joanna come across as the heavy.

As I said, they don't write Dick and Michael this way. Dick gives Michael a bit more latitude (maybe because Michael is his producer and technically over him). But back at the inn, Joanna is over Stephanie and she keeps making sure poor Stephanie never forgets it. Joanna is on a big power trip. She also pulls rank over George, too; whereas Dick has a much more casual approach with George than Joanna does.

I love Mary Frann, but I am finding Joanna to be the least likable character on Newhart. I watched this show first-run as a kid in the 80s and I didn't remember Joanna being such a hard-nose.

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I agree. Joanna was am overbearing piece of sh-t. and she was mean to Stephanie. I wish Stephanie would have kicked Joanna's constipated butt and booted her out of the Inn in front of all of the guests.

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Naw, the viewers were always just hoping for them to get into a cat fight where they ripped each others clothes off.

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To me it seemed that Stephanie was most of the time very vicious to Joanna at every opportunity. I've never seen an episode the way you described their relationship. If any come to mind please post the titles.

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Send Her Ella comes to mind. That is one near the end of season two where Stephanie isn't able to go to the Maple Syrup Beauty contest (like Cinderella and the ball) because Joanna makes sure she stays back at the inn to finish her work. In fact, when I think about it, Joanna is kind of like the wicked stepmother in that episode.

But there are many episodes throughout the show's run where Joanna gets after Stephanie for setting a guest's breakfast plate down too hard on the table, or when she hurries with the dusting in the lobby. In these moments, Joanna always says 'Stephanie! like a scolding parent.

I agree that there are other episodes where Stephanie is kind of vicious to Joanna, usually behind Joanna's back-- but in a way, it is almost like a necessary retaliation or venting, because of how Joanna is hovering over her at the inn all day.

A really great episode is Season 4's The Shape of Things, where they go into business together running an exercise studio. But because Stephanie invested more money, she gets to boss Joanna around. Then, when they get back to the inn, Joanna takes it out on her and gets even.

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Joanna wasn't hard enough on Stephanie. Maybe it's because I've worked with spoiled brats like her, but I really wished someone would've put Stephanie in her place.

Interestingly enough, the episode I'm watching now has Joanna asking Dick why they've kept Stephanie around for so long, to which Dick replies, "Because we're idiots."


Oh stewardess...I speak jive.

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Another line about Stephanie was in the episode when a couple opened an inn nearby the Stratford. Dick and Joanna go to visit, and they meet the maid who has a pleasant personality and seems to take pride in her work. Dick turns to Joanna and says "When God was handing out hired help, I bet he said 'Watch what I do to the Loudons'"

The only time where I thought Joanna was too overbearing was the episode when she thought the Stratford had received a low rating in a tourist guide. Other than that, Joanna just wanted Stephanie to do her job. Hardly unreasonable, especially since the job included free living accomodations and meals. Without rent, bills or groceries to worry about, what Stephanie made there was spending money for whatever she wanted.

Stephanie was a terrible employee, especially compared to Leslie. Most people would've fired her long ago. But Dick and Joanna didn't have the heart to let her go. So Dick seemed to shrug off her behavior and accept it, while the responsibility for making sure Stephanie did her job fell to Joanna.

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Well, that's a nicer way to look at it. But I do think Joanna went overboard in some episodes. The episode about the tourist guide rating also had Joanna getting after George, too. She definitely was a control freak in that one.

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Interestingly enough, the episode I'm watching now has Joanna asking Dick why they've kept Stephanie around for so long, to which Dick replies, "Because we're idiots."


The episode you are referring to is season 8's 'Lights Cameras Contractions' right before Stephanie goes into labor.

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I was thinking watching the repeat about Stephanie giving birth to Small Fry the other day that there could have been one kind moment between Stephanie and Joanna, maybe with Steph thanking her for always being there for her or something. Alas, she was a witch to her like always.

I know that Mary Frann got bored playing the voice of reason to the zanies on the show. You could see that frustrated look in her eye watching everybody else get to play ball while she had to be the straight person.

She really seemed to come to life in the few scenes when they let her character have some fun. Like when they let her play Japanese Joanna for example.

It seems to me that they could have let Joanna have more variety than wearing sweaters and being the perfect wife.

I hear Mary Frann while being very charitable in real life was quite the diva on the set. Who can blame her? They rarely let her shine. Stephanie and Michael got to be front and center all the time. It would tick me off too.

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I hear Mary Frann while being very charitable in real life was quite the diva on the set.

She was not a diva on the set. One guest star who was a diva himself bitched about her-- probably because she didn't put up with his nonsense and put him in his place. He was evidently still on a tear years later, talking ill of her after she had passed away.

There were countless guest stars on Newhart during the eight year period it was on the air, and none of those other guests, and none of her show's main cast, ever said an unkind word about her. From what I've heard, a lot of her friends in the television industry turned out for her funeral. She was a good person and should not be slandered when she's not around to defend herself. Not that she ever had to defend anything to a talented but prissy guest star with an axe to grind.

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People are neither all good or all bad. Mary was a a flawed yet loving person. She could tick people off sometimes, apparently. Doesn't make her a bad person because she had her personal quirks and a few detractors here and there.

If Beverly Leslie had a bad experience with her so be it. Not everybody is going to like you.

I do think it is in poor taste of him to bad mouth her when she can't defend herself. Tacky.

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I do think it is in poor taste of him to bad mouth her when she can't defend herself. Tacky.

Completely agree. If he had predeceased her, she wouldn't have been saying unkind things about him. She would have been focusing on more productive things.

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I don't recall watching the show in its entirety when it first aired, but am watching it all now on YouTube. I'm up to episode 110 or around that number. I think there are 140 so I've just recently binge-watched almost the entire series.

I don't see Joanna as being condescending or anything like that to Stephanie. They pay her salary and let her live with them and put up with her issues. Dick wouldn't be like that with Michael because he doesn't work for Dick and doesn't live with them. I don't dislike the character of Stephanie because she is the way she's suppose to be - spoiled. However, I see Joanna as being a very kind person to all of them.

Maybe it's because I'm Southern. There's a way of saying "Bless your heart" that means "You're nuts!" And a way of saying it that means you really care. I see Joanna as taking a kind, motherly tone with Stephanie and George and pretty much everyone that seems to need it. I think she does something I do, which is tell people to do things in the form of a question. I could've wrong, but when I ask my husband or son, "Don't you want to..." it's my polite way of saying "I want you to..."

"There is nothing in the dark that isn't there when the lights are on." - Rod Serling

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Thanks Sally for your interesting comments. Glad you are enjoying the show. It's been a few weeks since your post, and I am guessing you have finished all the episodes by now.

I still feel Joanna is too bossy in some of the episodes. In a way, I think Joanna is one of the least explored characters on the show. She seems frustrated with Stephanie sometimes, but maybe she is frustrated in general-- with the town and the climate, and with being stuck in Vermont without much chance to leave.

We know that if Stephanie wants to play by her parents' rules, she can leave and go back to the good life. But for Joanna, this is as good as it gets, by Dick's side running an inn in the middle of nowhere.

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Y'all are only saying she's mean because she's a woman.

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I think the problem for Joanna is simple. She thinks she is perfect and must appear perfect and untouchable to Stephanie. Because Joanna is getting older and losing her figure and her looks, she is losing the battle of remaining perfect. In fact, she is getting stupid and fat. This becomes clear in the episode where Joanna and Stephanie start a fitness club business. Joanna, in her tights, definitely has a big gut and butt. She's losing the battle. Stephanie, as stupid as she is, is better than Joanna.

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