MovieChat Forums > Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981) Discussion > Inadvertently racist or meant for humour...

Inadvertently racist or meant for humour?


I saw Raiders yesterday. This is the first Indiana Jones that I have seen, and I am unfamiliar with the adventure comedy genre. At first I was a bit surprised by the fact that all the "natives" in the film - whether in South America, Nepal or Egypt - were either cowardly, traitorous, gullible or dispensable. The one token exception was Sallah. I wondered whether Spielberg depicted the natives in this way to humorously acknowledge the prevalent trope in older adventure movies, or whether he was simply unaware of the racist undertones. My overall feeling is that the depiction of the natives was tongue-in-cheek, like much of the rest of the movie. I'd be interested to know others' opinions.

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Definitely tongue in cheek, highly doubt any racism was intentional.

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I'm glad you think so too 

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Have you ever been to those countries, the people are actually like that.

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Have you ever been in those countries?

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The depictions are tongue in cheek. Spielberg and Lucas made this film as an homage to the old serials they watched/listened to as children. The brutal savage was a common trope.

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Sallah, his family, the children who save Indy, the guy who explains the headpiece and the staff, they all seem nice. The film has very few speaking parts and yet I can name several who were not depicted in a stereotypical manner.

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I saw this for the first time just now too and while I didn't think much of the movie as a whole, I don't think it was meant to be racist, but more tongue-in-cheek. The humor and the adventure don't really work for me though.

Very good. But brick not hit back!

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Ehhh this was typical of movies of the 80s. However if you think this one is racist then definitely don't watch Temple of Doom LOL!

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Why do people apply modern political correctness to old movies? Nobody was whining about racism back then as much as they do now. The word "racism'" is about as common now as the word "the" or "and."

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Why do people apply modern political correctness to old movies? Nobody was whining about racism back then as much as they do now. The word "racism'" is about as common now as the word "the" or "and."
I would hope that racial equality is more than political correctness. The reason people didn't talk too much about racism in the 1970s is because the audience was far more homogenous. However, depicting all native South Americans as cowards, traitors or gullible people - especially in contrast to the White adventurer - comes across as far more "colonial" in mindset than a typical 1970s movie. That is why I suspected that the depiction of natives was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, as a sort of homage to older adventure movies. The other posters agree with me that it is a parody.

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Morefshpls, are you referring to my comment, and if so, which part?

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... just even considering and putting it out there for discussion. Life has become tedious enough with all the control-freakery and censoring on expression. Don't you find it tedious that people actively and hawkishly look for, to uncover, something that gets called "racism"? It stifles honest creativity based on 'saying what you see', and the funny side of misinformed impression. Stereotyping is a type of honesty and what comes of it is better out than in. Writers are double-checking themselves these days so much - and it shows, it's forced and formulaic to not offend the proxy offendees. And it's bs because it's art and storytelling. If things should change it should be organic not by agenda or council. These guys above are humouring you, saying it's a parody. In a way it is, but not by intention - because it wasn't then, and shouldn't now, be an issue. This kind of 'racism' is a hammed-up delight; let it be and stop picking! More of a general comment than directed at you btw.
Thanks for explaining. I partly agree and partly disagree with you. I agree to the extent that I resent people crying "racism" at issues such as the lack of a non-white character on a particular show (such as Midsomer Murders), or forcing others to apologise for using "politically incorrect" terms.

However, I disagree with you in the sense that I believe that actual racism - views that show indifferent ignorance about other races or cultures - should be discouraged in any artistic work. It's not a question of "Can't we even joke about these things without being on our guard all the time?" It's a question of why directors, producers or writers should feel that they have the liberty to write negatively about other races or cultures without taking the time and effort to find out the reality. It suggests the attitude, "It doesn't matter if I write incorrect stuff about other races, because their feelings don't come into the equation if the majority finds it entertaining."

Insofar as "Raiders of the Lost Ark" is concerned, I understand that it is a parody and the stereotypes were meant to be a mockery of older films of the same genre. I am perfectly fine with that. However, I would contrast this with what I have heard about "Temple of Doom" (not having watched it myself), in which the film's misrepresentation of an aspect of Hindu religion is not a parody but actual ignorance on the creators' part. That is what I would find truly offensive.

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depicting all native South Americans as cowards, traitors or gullible people
I didn't know the whole population of South America was in the movie. Just a couple treasure hunters and some warriors from a fictional tribe that didn't know Belloq as well as Indy did.

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depicting all native South Americans as cowards, traitors or gullible people
I didn't know the whole population of South America was in the movie. Just a couple treasure hunters and some warriors from a fictional tribe that didn't know Belloq as well as Indy did.


Have you ever seen any movie that shows the whole of any population - be it American, English, Indian or Chinese? Does that mean that a film can't depict the people of a race in a negative light?

It's called "representing" a race. If film shows a sampling of people from a particular race and portrays everyone in the sample in a negative light, it's fair to conclude that the film is suggesting that the sample represents the rest of the race.

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You said "representing all South Americans." It doesn't, just a pair of treasure hunters and some tribesmen.


If film shows a sampling of people from a particular race and portrays everyone in the sample in a negative light, it's fair to conclude that the film is suggesting that the sample represents the rest of the race.

By your logic, people would come away thinking the entire continent's population was split between treasure hunters and native warriors... with no women. That's never been the case. It's an action/adventure, and the opening has no more characters than necessary; Indy, the treasure hunters, Belloq, the Hovitos warriors, and Indy's pilot. Should they have shoehorned in an unnecessary scene just to show a native being nice?

Saying two treasure hunters and some warriors in an adventure movie represent all South America, makes as much sense as saying the family in The Texas Chainsaw Massacre represents all of Texas. Nobody thinks like that.

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By your logic, people would come away thinking the entire continent's population was split between treasure hunters and native warriors... with no women. That's never been the case. It's an action/adventure, and the opening has no more characters than necessary; Indy, the treasure hunters, Belloq, the Hovitos warriors, and Indy's pilot. Should they have shoehorned in an unnecessary scene just to show a native being nice?

Saying two treasure hunters and some warriors in an adventure movie represent all South America, makes as much sense as saying the family in The Texas Chainsaw Massacre represents all of Texas. Nobody thinks like that.
That's not the point. The point is that the filmmakers thought it acceptable to depict every character of a particular race as cowardly simply to drive the plot ahead. It's plot at the expense of a balanced representation of a race.

Moreover, you are ignoring the subtext that was typical of many adventure movies: a white adventurer accompanied by useless native guides braves through adversities in a foreign (non-white) land.

If the filmmakers hadn't meant it to be a parody, the impression I would have received is, "the filmmakers couldn't care less about showing every South American as cowardly, because they are only interested in the adventures of Indiana Jones". A lot of older adventure movies pre-dating Indiana Jones have this white-centric attitude, which involves filmmakers reducing native characters to caricatures or plot devices because "they are not important" to the overwhelmingly white audience.

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Moreover, you are ignoring the subtext that was typical of many adventure movies: a white adventurer accompanied by useless native guides braves through adversities in a foreign (non-white) land.

That happens in real life, too. There have always been a lot of opportunists ready to take advantage of foreign travelers. As for native tribesmen, they've claimed the lives of more than a few notables; Magellan, Ponce de Leon, Giovanni da Verrazzano, The Boyd Massacre, John Williams and James Harris, James Cook, Antonio de Silveira, Michael C. Rockefeller, and Percy Fawcett's expedition come to mind (Some speculate Fawcett's party was killed by bandits), nearly 100 would-be rescuers died searching for him.

If it's a stereotype, it's not without foundation.

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If it's a stereotype, it's not without foundation.
Stereotypes may have some foundation in truth, but they reflect a misunderstanding based on ignorance; they are far from an accurate perception of the truth about the group being stereotyped. That is precisely why it is irresponsible of movies to depict a group of people stereotypically, unless it is done for the purposes of parody and humour.

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How entertaining would the movie be if everyone got along? Guides aren't always trustworthy, and natives have killed more than a few outsiders (add to the fact Belloq set Indy up). Hell, a tribe in Brazil got international attention after killing and eating a local farmer just a few years ago.

Why not claim all Nepalese people are presented as drunks because the only ones we see are in a bar? Even though that's the only location in Nepal we see in the movie.

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Why not claim all Nepalese people are presented as drunks because the only ones we see are in a bar? Even though that's the only location in Nepal we see in the movie.
Because the Nepalese people weren't depicted stereotypically. The "untrustworthy native guide" is a common stereotype. The "drunk Nepalese" is not.

Guides aren't always trustworthy, and natives have killed more than a few outsiders (add to the fact Belloq set Indy up). Hell, a tribe in Brazil got international attention after killing and eating a local farmer just a few years ago.
I don't see why you are pointing at isolated incidents of violence against white people to justify the depiction of native guides in this movie. How many white tourists return home from these countries safe and sound compared to those that get attacked by native people?

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What makes you think Ocelio Alves de Carvalho was white, and why would the race of the victims be relevant?

As I said earlier, it's an action/adventure and people tend to cause trouble in those. How well would it play out if there was no conflict from anyone?

How many white tourists return home from these countries safe and sound compared to those that get attacked by native people?
Again, why do you specifically say white? Do you think Hispanics, blacks, Asians, etc... haven't been killed? Tourists are being warned increasingly about Brazil, or as some statiscians call it, "The Murder Capitol of the World." Though, Indy was deep in the jungle in 1936, not stabbed at an ATM or killed by gang members for driving down the wrong street.

Why'd you even ask "inadvertently racist or meant for humor" if you keep insisting everything was racist?

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What makes you think Ocelio Alves de Carvalho was white, and why would the race of the victims be relevant?...Again, why do you specifically say white? Do you think Hispanics, blacks, Asians, etc... haven't been killed?
The whole discussion is in the context of the trope of "the white adventurer". The stereotype of "the untrustworthy native guide" has emerged predominantly in the context of white adventurers. That's why the race is relevant.

Why'd you even ask "inadvertently racist or meant for humor" if you keep insisting everything was racist?
As I have said repeatedly, I don't think that this film is racist for using the "untrustworthy native guide" stereotype because it is meant to be a parody.

The only thing I am "insisting" is that your reasons for supporting the use of stereotype in the movie come across as racially insensitive to me, because you believe that: (a) it is acceptable to depict a group of people stereotypically simply to drive the plot ahead, and (b) you are using isolated instances of violence against tourists - which can happen in any country against anyone - to support the film's use of the "untrustworthy native guide" stereotype.

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I don't see why you are pointing at isolated incidents of violence against white people to justify the depiction of native guides in this movie. How many white tourists return home from these countries safe and sound compared to those that get attacked by native people?


The point is that there still are cannibals and head-hunters in some remote corners of the Earth and there were a lot more back in the 30s.

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In that case to satisfy over-sensitive people you could never have a movie with "bad guys" set in any foreign country, without dedicating half the native cast to being "good guys", just in case someone thinks it racist. That kind of pandering makes a movie feel horribly fake, besides which you'd probably just give up as a writer or director from nervous exhaustion waiting for someone to take offense at something the natives are or are not doing and label you a racist... they'd probably end up thinking "why bother? I'll just go back to LA and avoid filming anything ethnic or to do with anything foreign."

...And then they'd be called racist for doing that too. Not enough black people! Too many of those bad guys are black people! Not enough trans Indian lesbian midgets! Yadda yadda yadda.

Can't wait for the glorious utopia of equality you people are striving for. It's totally not going to resemble some fascist Orwellian nightmare.

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This movie is (homage to ) pulp fiction. To complain about lack of political correctness in pulp fiction is silly.

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To complain about lack of political correctness in pulp fiction is silly.
I wasn't complaining, I was simply asking whether the depiction of "natives" was meant to parody older works in the same genre or if it was a result of actual ignorance on the filmmakers' part. I would only be complaining if I thought it was the latter. I know from the responses of other posters that it was a parody.

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You can't win with 'racism' accusations.

If a black guy shoots a white guy, it's 'Why are black people always the villains?'

If a white guy shoots a black guy, it's 'Why are black people always the victims?'

If a white guy shoots a white guy, it's 'Why aren't black people included?'

If a black guy shoots a black guy, it's 'Why are only black people shown to be violent?'

You can't win.

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yeah , and the person asking those question , like the OP , really doesent give a shit he's just starting a racism row

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Cunts who see films well outside of their release window should learn to shut the fuck up.

Moron, get a bit of context.

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