Saw this again for the first time in twenty years. At the time, I knew it was a great movie but didn't really know why.
Danny's evolution from loyal cop who wants to rid the city of systemic corruption to confessed corrupt cop soooo surpasses Pacino's rock hard integrity role of Serpico.
R.I.P. Lamet
Personally, I think both performances (and films) are great, but I prefer Prince of the City to Serpico (and Williams' performance to Pacino's), so I'm with ya.
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Not that Serpico´s for kids exactly, but POTC is indeed a more morally complex movie as it has a lot broader scope involving all sorts of folk from top to bottom, from high level bureaucrats to organized crime to street junkies and paints its picture with plenty more shades of gray as opposed to Serpico´s largely black and white world view. And Ciello was a plenty more interesting character than Frank Serpico´s almost annoyingly straight-arrow do-gooder. Treat William´s performance also more or less matches Pacino´s, I guess.
"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan
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As if there ever was a differing opinion that ´didn´t´ get on yer nerves.
"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan
I wouldn't exactly say that "Serpico" is childish...
Born when she kissed me, died when she left me, lived whilst she loved me
[deleted]
Born when she kissed me, died when she left me, lived whilst she loved me
Would you two care to be alone??
No... seriously, this thread makes me want to watch Serpico again. Because while I agree it's certainly not 'childish' (see: thread subject, etc.), for some reason I've always FAR prefered Prince of the City to Serpico, and now I'm really curious to know exactly why.
So to both of you.
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"Serpico" was the one I saw first... and I can't help thinking that POTC would have been much the better film if Pacino had been in it (or at least, someone stronger than Treat Williams... ) POTC is much more involved and layered, but the main character doesn't draw me to the screen and make me want to stick with him; indeed, I feel that the film is stolen by its supporting players. So I still say Serpico is my favourite of the two, purely because I can never get enough of watching Pacino at his best.
Born when she kissed me, died when she left me, lived whilst she loved me
See, to me, Williams was brilliant in POTC. And he was in almost the entire film - freakin' incredible.
Pacino in POTC? Interesting. I agree overall Pacino is a better actor than Treat (no doubt) but, to me, Treat really has his 'moments', and POTC is one of 'em. I thought he should have been nominated for an Oscar.
Just my $0.02.
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I know - a lot of people did - and I thought he was great in some scenes, but for me he just seemed 'inconsistent' throughout the whole piece. I think it would have worked better with a stronger actor because we see his perspective right from the outset.
That's just my feeling though; I understand that a good few people see it differently!
Born when she kissed me, died when she left me, lived whilst she loved me
About the bashing the Serpico thing. Sorry. Get the sand out.
shareNo sand here, I assure you.
Born when she kissed me, died when she left me, lived whilst she loved me
Thing is,
Serpico's characterization is all based on cool factor. He's got a cool beard. He like gardening and ballet: very unconventional. He's got a cool dog and cool girlfriend. I'm not against all this, but it just doesn't have as much depth as the way Danny is characterized.
I was too busy paying attention to the way Pacino played it to notice the backstory much, and that's the truth.
... the same could be said in the case of Treat Williams, but with a different end result.
Pacino supposedly passed on this because it covers similar territory. That's exactly why I would've liked him to accept it, because the second time around I could've concentrated more on the intricacies of the story, and less upon how the lead actor approaches material that he's already had a taste of, before.
Superficially, Carlito and Lefty are both similar characters, given that they're both gangsters with connections to the underworld, but it didn't stop him playing those two.
It's like a spinoff of Serpico that is indeed deeper and richer in its treatment of the subject matter... I think it would have been nice to have them side by side, played by the same actor, for more effective comparison. It would be no different to an actor returning to the same role in a sequel, to see what has changed... (Like Newman in "The Huster" & "The Colour of Money", for instance) It's just two sides of the same coin, and what the differences tell us about the story in play.
Born when she kissed me, died when she left me, lived whilst she loved me
I'm still not seeing it.
Danny is a corrupt cop seeking absolution, and Serpico is a dedicated cop who fights corruption wherever he sees it. Pretty different characters.
Treat Williams nails that blue collar, New York Italian cop mentality to a T. He's the type of character who would be tempted to take money from criminals, or even favors from a prostitute, and then feel remorse afterwards. I've never seen Pacino in anything that demonstrates that level of vulnerability. Even as the corrupt Michael Corleone, he is stridently and uncompromisingly corrupt.
Yes, but Danny is what Serpico could have become, if he didn't stand up... He could have been hung out to dry - and all of his good works tarnished - for the sake of the compromises made, in what he thinks of as 'the greater good'.
There is no dabbling in the seamier side; you're either out of it, or you're in all the way... Serpico was such a 'straight arrow do-gooder' because he saw that it was a slippery slope, and made a definite choice. "Prince of the City" is what could have happened, if he'd gone the other route.
It's a vastly different film, but if you want vulnerability from Pacino, watch Scarecrow.
Born when she kissed me, died when she left me, lived whilst she loved me
"If you want vulnerability from Pacino, watch Scarecrow".
Or People I Know. Or And Justice For All. Even in Dog Day Afternoon there´s plenty of that in his performance. I think his Corleones and Montanas and Carlitos are doing a disservice to a very varied career because it´s always the gangsters and tough guys that seem to be remembered, at the expense of his other work.
As for Pacino as Ciello, I think he would have pulled it off all right and probably more consistently than Williams, but it´s still great to see a young, hungry actor fearlessly rip into this beefy, highly complex role and come out with impressive results even if there are a few shaky bits (sometimes he seems to try & play it too much like Pacino would, going somewhat overboard with his histrionics). He´s supposed to be simultaneously cocky and despairing, someone who believes he has control yet gradually realizes he´s been in over his head from the moment he first opened his mouth... and his work with this stuff is mostly strong, occasionally sublime. Pacino as Serpico had it comparatively easy. Should have been a much bigger career ahead of Williams than it turned out to be.
"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan
Oh absolutely; I just believe Scarecrow to be the most salient example, but there are others...
Born when she kissed me, died when she left me, lived whilst she loved me
Prince of the City =
Super Mario Bros. + heroin and corruption.
Let's not give SERPICO a hard time for concerning a man with unshakable integrity. PRINCE OF THE CITY isn't a better film on the basis that it's protagonist is presented as being more morally and emotionally complex; we're talking about two drastically different characters, one who said "no" to taking part in police corruption and one who dove into it and feels guilt for having done so. You may identify with Ciello more because of your own moral shortcomings, but that hardly gives you the right to imply that admirers of SERPICO are of lower intelligence than PRINCE OF THE CITY fans. It would seem that you're too juvenile in your thinking to qualify as an expert on the subject of what is suitable for "grownups".
By the way... While PRINCE OF THE CITY is a remarkable movie, it's not as accomplished as SERPICO. The slightest glance at critics' reviews for both films will inform you that your preference is a minority opinion.
What did you just say about my moral shortcomings???
Nah, I see your point. I think both are excellent films. I don't agree that this film is 'Serpico for Grownups' either. I just prefer Prince Of The City to Serpico.
Regardless of what the critics might think, *I* think Prince Of The City is the superior film.
Now if only we had that audio commentary that was originally promised for the DVD release.
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