Was Andre right?


It's been nearly 25 years since My Dinner with Andre was released, and in it, Andre mentions some extremely pessimistic visions of the future: humanity would cease to exist (emotionally, at least), and we'd be nothing more than robots. Has that happened?

An argument could be made that in certain respects, yes, it has happened (I'm not going into a political discussion, only a comparison), because with the unthinking patriotic fervor after 9/11, American citizens, at least, simply followed the leader in a sort of robotic way--the difference is we felt something (pride in America, hatred toward the people who committed such a barbaric ["savage"] act) as opposed to nothing (in Andre's prediction). It could be said, though, in both ways, you're dead inside.

But certainly the pockets of light Andre spoke of have not come to pass (not if his words are taken literally), nor do I think they ever will. But there's an interesting foreshadowing going on: the graffiti on the subway train Wally takes can be seen as a sign of a collapsing, "savage" civilization, and the restaurant (and intellectual discussion) as a pocket of light. Also the political landscape at the time the film was made (Jimmy Carter was just going out of the White House, high unemployment and interest rates, the hostage crisis in Iran, etc) made for high uncertainty. It makes me wonder what the film would be like if it'd been made in the last couple of years.

reply

It is definitely a timely, if not timeless film - im sure it will always prove relevant.

reply

[deleted]

I had the opportunity to meet Andre Gregory. He is the most intelligent human being I've ever met. His love for knowledge is extraordinary. I think in some ways he was right about the future, especially with the impact that our country has had in the past 4 years. There has been several painful events altering Andre's own hopes: the death of Chiquita. But Andre continues to create, teach, and study. Last year, they performed MY DINNER WITH ANDRE at Hunter College. I'd love them to do a sequel, looking on the past quarter century.

reply

It's been nearly 25 years since My Dinner with Andre was released, and in it, Andre mentions some extremely pessimistic visions of the future: humanity would cease to exist (emotionally, at least), and we'd be nothing more than robots. Has that happened?

Not been keeping up on current events, eh?

reply

if u like that idea, watch "network", its a very awsome movie that touches on that subject

[WTF?]

reply

the difference is we felt something (pride in America, hatred toward the people who committed such a barbaric ["savage"] act) as opposed to nothing (in Andre's prediction). It could be said, though, in both ways, you're dead inside.

So pride and hatred makes you dead inside or are you hinting that you don't feel the same way so others who feel this way are dead because they don't see the world through your eyes?

Either way it seems like a rather shallow commentary on your part. It's easy to dismiss people for not acting in a fashion becoming to you.

reply

Maybe you're taking a bit of an antagonistic stance to someone commenting on his own point of view; seems kind of odd to me as a way to reply to a post, on a topic, relating to a movie, with an audience such as that of "...Dinner with Andre..."

We can all feel strongly about events and points of view, but if we can separate ourselves, from our negative reactivity and deal with things more objectively, more openly, we could deal with things more intelligently, more effectively. Maybe what the (post) writer was getting at, was that our ability to deal with events, objectively, properly, instead of like, followers, (or Andre's quotes on Van Horn, or Bjornstraad's New York concentration camp prisoners), would have allowed us as a nation, to feel more aligned, less tricked, by “our” choice.*

(* following the current poles on GWB's popularity, US involvement in Iraq, the current policy and forecasting for "success," and then the surfacing, uncovering, of the President's Cabinet's involvement in creating a situation to get us to go to war with Iraq - or lies - for a public perception their objective, was simply for better control of oil, and for Halliburton contracts. The war with Iraq, however construed to be justified for other reasons, "We" went about it the "wrong" way, and subsequently some of "us" feel tricked defending the powers that put us in this position).

Maybe it would be best to follow at least one of the themes of the movie that seemed too subtle or esoteric to catch; there was no conflict in the movie. People expressing ideas with an exchange of points of view, but not conflict. Education, expression, and edification without negativity seems like something we could all walk away from the movie with as a positive experience... There’s a time and place for conflict, but shouldn’t it be a last resort?

Could "Andre," be correct in his assessment of the treatment of the old adage, "there are no coincidences?"

reply

I think time has indeed proven Andre right, alas. Leaving partisan politics aside, we can see how popular culture & public discourse have both coarsened in the intervening years. Anti-intellectualism is certainly riding higher & higher; the levels of free-floating anxiety & fear & uncertainty have definitely increased overall; and I'd imagine that most young people today know that their future isn't going to be as good as that of their parents or grandparents.

As for those "pockets of light," you might be interested in Morris Berman's book from 2000, "The Twilight of American Culture," where he diagnoses all that I've mentioned in the previous paragraph. He recommends what he calls New Monastic Individuals (NMIs, for short) -- people who in their own quiet way struggle to maintain & preserve a measure of cultured, civilized, thoughtful, truly passionate life, even as the world around them grows more crass & shallow. You can check out his blog, Dark Ages America, at:

http://morrisberman.blogspot.com/

Of course, what Andre & Wally are discussing is in some ways an eternal human struggle. It's just that modern technology & the insanely accelerating pace of modern life have made the pressures to conform & go along to get along even more powerful & overwhelming. It's a consumer culture, and if someone can figure out how to start imprinting brand names inside the womb, they'll gladly do it -- the flood of robotizing data is ceaseless today.

All the more reason to stop & spend an evening of thoughtful, contemplative dialogue ...

reply

[deleted]

I think Andre unfortunately, and probably unwittingly, became one of the catalysts of his own dire prediction, as what passes for intellectual awareness is people saying how fake things are. It's gotten boring and it lost any perception it may once have had. I don't mean the movie, which is always interesting as a study of characterization, it's just that every year a new crop of young people comes up who point at everybody else and talk about how fake they are and think they're the first ever to say it.

-----
Reason is a pursuit, not a conclusion.

reply

[deleted]

Was Plato?

(Keep in mind Plato as you know it does not exist and virtually all attributed to him by contemporary scholars is absurd beyond words and a true revelation of the horror that post-medieval (lack-of) thought grew and grows to date into the hearts and souls of the world.)




(\___/)This is Bunny! Put him on your
(='.'=)signature to help him gain
(")_(")world domination

reply