MovieChat Forums > La guerre du feu (1982) Discussion > Human species in the movie

Human species in the movie


I am surprised that the director's commentary states that Ulam and Ivaka (the original tribe and the tribe that makes fire) are both Homo Sapiens, while the ape-like Wagabu and cannibal Kzamm are Neanderthal. :-/

I mean, Wagabu totally miss Neanderthal traits, while the Ulam have them all: robust stature, white skin and light hair, speech disability which prevents them from having an advanced language, while at the same time high intelligence and highly developed tribal organization. Ivaka are by all traits early Cro-Magnons.

To me, Ulam and Kzamm are both Neanderthals, Ivaka are early Cro Magnons, while Wagabu are just some made up ape-like proto-humans added for the sake of film plot.

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what evidence is there for the color of neanderthal skin? the Ulam have obviously homo sapien skulls, with very little brow ridges compared with neanderthal, which much more closely resemble the redskinned Kzamm. The Wagabu seemed more like homo heidelbergensis or a late strain of homo erectus to me than any other.

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Well then,... welcome to the club. I am way above avg too. Which strikes away your meaning of your post about your own IQ against my post.

Is you telling about your IQ suppose to make your post make more sence? IQ is not a justification for (faulty) reasoning.

It is first, just a way of measurement (and not 100% solid at that).
Second if it would have some true meaning, never an excuse for actions.

Smart people make mistakes just as lesser smart people do. But a brain is a tool, which should be used. And that was my basic point. In religion you get no change to think for yourself and reason. You will just do and follow what has been written down years and/or centuries ago.

It is that reason, I made the 'brain' remark. Not for being smart or lesser smart, but for not using the tool as it should be.

Reason. Some say which started with Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason). But as valid today for sure, seeing all the injustice caused in the name of (any) religion. But even before Paine these things were questioned. But there sometimes was simply no alternative, as they did not know any better at these times.

I'll give you an example:
A thing you will see a lot of religious people use, is that a lot of the ancient and medieval 'scientists,' said to believe in God. However with the knowledge of the time that makes perfect sence. But given statistical data from these days, it is more likely that if they had lived to day, they would be Atheists, or at least be an agnostic (in any of it's forms).

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The title of this thread was exactly what i was looking for, until i saw that it went only one post before it got turned into a retard debate. I think Neanderthals had it right, not talking. Imagine a Neaderthal Facebook. Neanderbook. It would be heaven. Nothing but pictures of fire and landscape. What a dream....

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A subject like this is nothing retarded.

People kill eachother over it in the real world. Islam, Protestant, Roman Catholic, Hindu, ... whatever...

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Let me guess, JungleHyena, you're always standing alone at cocktail parties, assuming you're invited in the first place.

What an iconoclastic boor.

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C I P Pride:

I love how you "scientists" can take a few bones and fragments of bones and make up this entire history of ape to man...


Equally as unbelievable as it is for a tree to grow from a single seed.

DNA.

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I couldn't have said it better myself.

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Much has been said on the threads that involves the different species depicted!

To me, who has been into paleontology since childhood, knows how important it is to read up on the latest scientific analyses to be able to discuss the subject! Annaud had no idea that the traditional picture of Neanderthals has been that of a more primitive subspecies than we know now! Sure, there were older Neanderthals (300 000 yrs ago) and more "modern" (f example 50 000 yrs ago), but for us today, we know that modern Neanderthals looked a lot like us, and would probably not cause many staring eyes if they walked around in our cities with modern clothes on. Once upon a time we could not find any tracks of Neanderthal genes in our own, but now, with more developed technique, we have! Who knows, maybe red hair is one of the signs of Neanderthal in us European people...? Other earlier people, besides Neanderthals did certainly also mate with our direct ancestors. Everybody likes sex!

Despite Annauds ideas around the different tribes in the movie, we can enjoy the film better if we see the main tribe who not yet can make fire, as late Neanderthals, as it is 80 000 yrs ago (They may be slightly primitive Homo Sapiens Sapiens), BUT the cannibal tribe, who the hell are they? Heidelberg, some type of Erectus for sure, as research has pushed the different characters/ species further back and with more "modern" traits, like the ability to use fire for Homo habilis (thats early!)1.5 milj yrs ago.

In fiction literature and fantasy films, there has been a tradition to let different species meet, and always has our ancestors met a hairy ugly and dangerous species, like in QUEST.. in the opening scene with the fully furry people supposed to be Erectus, which appearantly survived in Minor Asia until eh, what did they say?, 50-40 000 yrs ago. Nowadays Erectus, who was a huge and old branch of Homo, are not usually depicted so apelike and furry. Among the first things that we lost during our journey from apeman to Erectus was our hair, so we could sweat when running and walking...

But hell, we can enjoy the amazing movie without trying to understand that whole business, right?

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We surely can enjoy it, and we need not agonize over exactly which branch of hominid is being represented by which prehuman shown in Annaud's epic.
Maybe one or more of the depicted hominid tribes belong to a line that was not only ultimately unsuccessful, but was one from which no surviving fossil evidence has yet been discovered or identified!

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very very good point! We often get blinded of our findings, making us believe we are seeing the top of an iceberg, while for reals there are plenty of icebergs underneath left for us to discover, if we ever...

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The only thing I would quibble with in this movie is how massively diverse all the groups were from each other, all living in what is basically the same region. I don't think there would have been such vast physiological differences among five or six different groups.

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