MovieChat Forums > Gallipoli (1981) Discussion > 500,000 Dead And For What?

500,000 Dead And For What?


In less than a year, 500,000 people on all sides died. Nothing came of Gallipoli. Cynical politicians in Australia and New Zealand acted like their countries came of age at Gallipoli (the same people who sent the young men to die)-as it was, when Britian went to war with Germany, to defend Belgium, a nations which had killed millions in what is now the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Austraia and New Zealand were automatically at war. No much for being nations.

The soldiers were cannon fodder. "Food for powder" as Shakespeare put it. If the politicians believed in the cause, why didn't they fight?

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If the politicians believed in the cause, why didn't they fight?


The cry of soldiers throughout the ages.

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How does the line go?

"Why do the rich never go to war, why do they always send the poor?"

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i know for gods sake, why do we try to bring peace through violence it makes no sense!

when life gives you lemons throw them back and say i want cookies!!

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"i know for gods sake, why do we try to bring peace through violence it makes no sense! "

For constant peace there must be constant war.

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There's been peace between USA and Canada for over 100 years with no war.. how is that possible?

Show me the holes!

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It's not that you hadn't declared war on Canada - you did. And albeit outnumbered at times by 1:10, they fought with a bravery for their freedom, that put you in awe...and when England had invaded your capital and burned it down to the ground - as you did with Canadian cities as punishment for their resistance -, you made peace.

You had your taste of what it means to try to put Canada under your tyranny.


Ich bin kein ausgeklügelt Buch, ich bin ein Mensch mit seinem Widerspruch.
Conrad Ferdinand Meyer

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Why should they risk their neck when there are plenty of peasants to go

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That is BS. The cream of the crop of europe fought and died in this war and WW2.

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Because they can.

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Professional soldiers don't give a rats ass about what politicians say or think, but would rather they just be allowed to fight the fight they are ordered to. I don't want politicians in my fight.

And no, that is NOT the cry of soldiers throughout the ages.

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[deleted]

They werent really professional soldiers were they?

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Winston Churchill did!

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australia and new zealand had to fight because they were allies with england (england is australia and new zealands mother country) therefore allies with france and russia. so basically we had to fight in the war if we wished to continue our relationship with these countries and their potential defense if we ever needed it. im sure many politians did not want us to go but it was our duty. but your right nothing came of gallipoli people died on both sides and for nothing. i doubt youd see more than one politician who has served in the army. like i said we try to bring peace through violence!! it makes no sense.

when life gives you lemons throw them back and say i want cookies!!

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I like the way the volunteers making their way across the desert, described the reason for Australia joining the war to that crusty old Aussie camel-driver. That summed it up for me !

"If we don't stop the Turks, they'll be here next !"

As the old Aussie looked across the scorching, endless, barren plain and said "And they're welcome to it !!!"






You wanna f * * k with me? Okay. Say hello to my little friend! (Tony Montana)

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yup completely agree. those who fought in galipolli weren't really professional soldiers, some of those who died were actually only teenagers. it's sad and horrible to think that so many people died just for the sake of alliances.

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The great majority of soldiers killed in the Great War weren't professional regular soldiers, be they British, German, French or colonial. By 1915 most of the professionals were dead or injured and the belligerents had come to rely on volunteers and conscripts.

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>>>If the politicians believed in the cause, why didn't they fight?

Well to be entirely fair, after the failure of the Dardanelles campaign, Churchill resigned from government and joined the army, serving at the rank of Major. He's the only one I can think of, mind you.

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[deleted]

Yes thats true,
because Prime minister Asquith's own son Raymond was killed on the Western Front in 1915-16 and i dont think was ever found.
He could have got his son out of it if he wanted to,but they to wanted to serve along with everyone else.

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Sons of Tory leader Bonar Law and Labour leader Henderson also.killed.

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How many Australians realise the Australian troops at Gallipoli ended up on the Western Front?????????????????????????????.

They did not just go home and have a big rest. Thedy had smoke o' and then
went North.

Men who landed at Gallipoli were still in combat at Mont St Quinten
nearly four years latter.

The Australian great war experience was much different to England's
the reasons why could fill several books.

But we are talking nearly one hundred years ago , who cares really.


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Even though politicians stayed at home and made decisions affecting the execution of the war, there's at least a couple of politicians who did put on uniform in WW1.

1) Sir Winston Churchill, First Lord of the Admiralty was largely responsible for the idea of attacking the Central Powers through its soft underbelly, rather than plugging away month after month on the Western Front. It was intended to save lives and end the war sooner. Churchill promoted the idea of an invasion at The Dardanelles/Gallipoli. That it went wrong wasn't all his fault by a long way - the best British commanders were on the Western Front and unavailable and so the Dardanelles campaign had to make do with lacklustre has-been generals pulled out of retirement or some dead-end posting. The army and navy also sadly lacked knowledge and experience on combined sea-land operations and seaborne invasions, with disastrous results. Anyway, we all know today how badly it went and all the other politicians were so relieved and so ready to let him take all the blame. Unable to continue as a politician, he rejoined the army. He was appointed Lieut. Colonel of the 6th (Service) Batt. Royal Scots Fusiliers in January 1916. He served with the battalion on the Western Front, as part of the 15th Scottish Division. The 15th Scottish Division was highly regarded and during Churchill's time there, took part in various phases of the Battle of the Somme assaults (Pozieres, Flers-Courcelette, Le Transloy).

In 1917, the political climate in the UK could not do without someone of his calibre, so he left the RSF's and continued with politics.

2) Sir George McCrae MP. Scottish Liberal MP for Edinburgh East. At the start of December 1914, the 54 year old self-made man from very poor beginings, rallied publically in the streets for the formation of a new volunteer infantry battalion in Edinburgh. Edinburgh had already seen scenes of large scale volunteering through the Summer and Autumn that year, but incoomon with much of the UK, it was now slowing down. The latest news of disaster and destruction of the old regular BEF at Ypres made another recruiting effort necessary. Sir George's charismatic personality gained popular support and he had his full battalion within 3 days with wnough for a reserve battalion filling up quickly too. A key part of the battalion were the professioanl footballers of Heart of Midlothian Football Club, at that time top of the Scottish League. All the Hearts players volunteered, plus some board and staff and football fans. Other clubs joined too. The new battallion became known as McCrae's Battalion, the Scottish Sportsmen's Battalion, The Footballers' Battalion, as well as its official designation titles - 2nd Edinburgh City Battalion and 16th (Service) Btn., Royal Scots (2nd Edinburgh City). McCrae was its Lieut Colonel. The battalion was brigaded alongside 15th Royal Scots and the Cambridge Pals and Grimsby Chums in 101st Bde of 34th Infantry Div.
Arriving in France in January 1916, the battalion saw trench duty and small scale actions through the spring. Then it was put into training with the division for the 'big one' ! - the planned first day of the Battle of the Somme on 1st July 1916. When the day came, with McCrae in command, the battalion left their trenches to attack the well-fortified village of Contalmaison up Sausage Valley. Not to go into lots of detail here, suffice to say that the events of that morning cost the 16th Royal Scots nearly 600 casualties out of 800 who started, included 3 Hearts players dead and others maimed or wounded. Sir George was one of the wounded casualties. At division level, the 34th Division had the sad record of being the division with the highest casualties that day. Most of its battalions lost over 500 men each and one of its battalions had lost just over 700 out of 800 who started.

Sir George McCrae was too badly hit to remain at the front, so he was evacuated at the end of his first day in action, his first chance to lead his battalion. He was invalided out of the army.


You wanna f * * k with me? Okay. Say hello to my little friend! (Tony Montana)

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Correction: 500.000 not dead, but casualt,es which includes dead, wounded, captured, deseased and lost. But it still is a great number. 1.1 million people fought there on that very small peninsula. A Historian came to my school and read us letters found on dead soldiers of both sides. Anzacs had written to their mothers and they were apperantly promised "Istanbul" and thought Turks should be stopped. But they just served Britain.

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[deleted]

Hitler too. You can't forget Hitler.

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When the U.S. entered the War, Theodore Roosevelt volunteered to return to the Army and fight on the Western Front, as he fought in Cuba in 1898.

Woodrow Wilson refused him.

However, Roosevelt's sons did fight in WWI, and Theodore, jr remained in the US Army, rose to the rank of Brigadier General, and was killed in Normandy in WWII.

"It's a hard country, kid."

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Quite a few MPs served to.be fair.

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Well, the freedom of Alsace and lorriane and belgium for one. to prevent Britian as a trading power collaspe, which would have had a very serious impact on inward investemnt and the economie of Austrialia and NZ.

it was not a needless war.

'Work is the curse of the drinking classes' Oscar Wilde

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Nothing came out for Gallipoli?

What about the Truks, they successfully defended but with a higher death rate than all the Allies combinded (especially the overrated ANZACs) their homeland.

Q:People kill for Allah, I bet they'll be pissed when they find out he doesn't exist.Q

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Overrated.....right......

You will unfortunately die.

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Turkey was strng armed in to the war by the central powers anyway. You had it all to loses and did and very little to gain. For the Turks the Great war was tragic.

'Work is the curse of the drinking classes' Oscar Wilde

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Yes, in the end but at Gallipoli they paid heavily but defended against the invaders.

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indeed , it was a noble defence. But they where where a pawn of the germans and suffered terible humiliation in the end . whiel at the time of galliploi at the same time where been trounced by the russians from over the caucuses (spelling) the response of which was to turn on the armenians population in the east as scapegoat for their armys defeat. Those deaths are vile un attoned for act of genocide. Historys largly ignored it. hiter later even wrote with optimisim 'who remembers the armenians' when embarking on his own crimes.

sorry for my spelling no time to cut and pastes in and out of word to spell check

'Work is the curse of the drinking classes' Oscar Wilde

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We're talking about the Battle of Gallipoli, not the entire war.

http://www.robertlpeters.com/news/wp-content/uploads/uninvolved.jpg

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fair enough. I Was just adding some context. to justify attacking turkey in answer to the OP question. in the wider conflict . i feel that it was right for Great Britian and there allies to attack the central powers in response to their attacks on belgium and serbia.

the view of many austrialians and kiwis of the time was that Britain could not sit by and watch france get crushed. Oz and NZ didn't want to sit by and watch britian fight with out helping such was the realtionship then.

i've readplenty of source material , letters and books and taped accounts diary extracts of people veiws at the time and they vast majority view of the people of the time was ir was a just war.

A terrible waste yes, a tradegy that it lasted so long, but the kaiser was not about to just go home give alsace back , stop converting north africa with out a fight.

'Work is the curse of the drinking classes' Oscar Wilde

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"the response of which was to turn on the armenians population in the east as scapegoat for their armys defeat." and "Historys largly ignored it." Who ignored what? Do you have any non-armenian evidence for the claims you've just made?

(sarcasm)
How about the native-american genocide? Oh there's no such a thing, it was a war and both sides suffered loss, right?
(sarcasm)

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Hi my friend! First of all I am a Turkish and would like to say that the Turkish didn't do a genocide to Armenians anytime in the history. Even some Armenian elders say that was a killing on both sides. In Turkey, we have our own records, photos and evidences that show the Turkish casualties in really huge numbers (explained by 10 and 100 thousands). And they would be lucky to just get killed. They were literally slaughtered in the ways you cannot even see in horror movies. FYI, Armenians, during Ottoman Empire, had a lot of rights and hence they were not obliged to do army job. During the World War 1, almost no young people who were Turkish were left behind and they were all taken in to the army. Villages and towns were all open to attacks. So Armenian militia supported by the Russians thought that was a good chance to eliminate the Muslim population in the area in order to build their Great Armenia. So they started killing innocent civil Muslim people. Unfortunately and inevitably when the Turkish soldiers came back from front-line to their villages when the war was lost and witnessed unbearable agonizing losses, they wanted revenge and there were killings and losses on both sides. So Ottoman Government decided to exile the Armenians to Middle East and this saved them from the anger of the Muslim population. Those Armenians who are now whining and crying about that never happened genocide are just trying to suck money from Western Countries. It is just politic. I am not saying Armenians haven't suffered. Too many innocent people from both sides died. But Muslim casualties were a lot more than Armenian casualties.

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One world's butcher is another world's hero. Which is why I never buy in propaganda *beep* like one side is an angel and the other side is an evil. In war, the first casualty is the truth.

Show me the holes!

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Mate! Don't you worry about those blood suckers! Allah does not want the believers to kill anyone unless they are attacked by the non-believers. I just wonder what you would do when you see he does exist!..

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"Well, the freedom of Alsace and lorriane"

Eh? At the time, Alsace and Lorraine were a part of Germany proper (not invaded by the Germans)-- they weren't invaded by the Germans b/c they were already within Germany! A&L have sort of been a "border frontier" ever since Charlemagne's time, with a Frankish population of mixed cultural identity-- I had to write a term paper on A&L for a world history class, and it's a fascinating place.

Actually, Alsace and Lorraine were German (HRE) until French King Louis XIV decided to invade them while Germany was preoccupied fighting off Turks in the 17th century-- an act of treachery against Christian allies under siege that still rankles Europe today (not just in Germany). After that they changed hands umpteen times but still culturally, very Frankish/Germanic. (I was there 5 years ago on a week-long business/pleasure trip and the kids generally spoke German. They spoke French too, it's not that they "didn't consider themselves Frenchmen" but they seem to have a Frankish identity, and the fact that Louis XIV pulled his little caper during a period when the rest of Europe was unifying against a Turkish invasion-- it doesn't exactly reflect well on the French monarchy especially in Alsace, which I guess is a reason it's bicultural. Much like Brittany, but since Alsatian kids can attend German universities, there's a lot more incentive for them to maintain it, it seems.

"and [freedom of] belgium"

I don't really buy the "freedom" argument here-- if freedom for oppressed peoples was so important, what about the freedom of the Congolese who were brutalized under King Leopold? Or the Irish, who initiated a 5-year struggle for freedom against the British in 1916? (Let alone us Indians, who were gunned down in a river of blood by General Dyer right after WWI.)

" to prevent Britian as a trading power collaspe" {sic}

I don't buy this either-- Kaiser Wilhelm was a knucklehead, but he and the Germans in general went out of their way to make sure Britain and British trade weren't harmed. He wasn't Nappy pushing a Continental blockade, the war began because of a bunch of boneheaded little conflicts in the Balkans and quickly escalated out of control due to the alliances. What was that Bismarck said? The Balkans not being worth the loss of a single Pomeranian soldier? (He was right.)

"it was not a needless war. "

Actually, seems like even the most pro-British historians these days say it was a needless war, a disaster for Britain that it's never really recovered from. Britain was the superpower at the time and the world's biggest creditor, but Britain was also still a young empire at the time-- they hadn't really hit the big time until Nelson's victory around 1800. In comparison, the Spaniards and Portuguese had many centuries at the top of the totem pole (since before 1500 until the 1800's), despite not having nearly the scientific sophistication of Britain-- long enough to really implant themselves and experience a "slow decline" during which they continued to benefit, unlike the British Empire that fell apart abruptly at its peak.

WWI drained the UK so badly that it wound up deep in red ink, its manpower mowed down at Gallipoli and the Western Front-- for what? A total waste. I'm not at all saying this in a pro-imperial sense (in India we don't have the fondest feelings toward the Empire), but I still sympathize with the poor young guys sent to do the fighting. And WWI was totally needless for Britain-- had they avoided it, or negotiated an early out, they'd still be leading the world today and founding the world's major institutions. Instead, the Americans wound up taking over from a broken and bankrupted Britain (though looks like China's about to take the reins for good, the way America's plummeting).

I'm not saying the Central Powers were all sweetness and light either, they certainly had their own nastiness-- but it seems like the sheer efficiency and industrialization of Germany led Britain to go to war for the simple reason that they were worried about price undercutting by a competing Continental power in their markets.

And I'm sorry, but that's a pisspoor reason to send off the flower of British youth to get mowed down by machine guns-- it reeks of the same corporate sycophancy (send guys killed so the bankers and CEO's can get more profits) that's plaguing us today. Obviously, Britain didn't expect they'd suffer so much from the carnage, they probably figured it'd be just a few months of fighting, but the circumstances of Britain's war entry just reek of narrow and monumentally stupid thinking on their leaders' part.

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Excellent post, prakashsant7!

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As an.Empire man I.agree - 1914 was the most catastrophic year in history.

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"The soldiers were cannon fodder. "Food for powder" as Shakespeare put it. If the politicians believed in the cause, why didn't they fight?"


Probably because politicians are sociopaths.

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[deleted]

As the Australians famously complained:

"The British will fight to the last Australian."

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As the Australians famously complained:

"The British will fight to the last Australian."


And yet the death rate of the British in WW1 per population ratio was almost TWICE that of Australia.

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for absolutely nothing, at least in ww2 some good( i know that sounds crazy) came about of it as we defeated a evil and tyrannical leader, but ww1 was just a war of inflated egos and wasted lives.

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