MovieChat Forums > Friday the 13th Part 2 (1981) Discussion > Analyzing Paul's knowledge about Jason

Analyzing Paul's knowledge about Jason


I re-watched F13 2 and 3 this past Thursday night with keeping Paul's and Chris's(pt 3) dialogue in mind.

For the first time, I'm starting to wonder if Paul knew a lot more about the realities or possibilities of Jason being alive than he admitted to. Its cool if you don't agree with me, but, for the sake of loving this film and discussion, I wanted to bring up my thoughts.

First, think about Ted not wanting to talk about Camp Blood. He had this look like he knew something bad went down OR that there is always a possibility of something happening again. He looked as if he might have been told not to bring something up and

Secondly, remember the campfire scene and then the bar scene. Both Paul and Ted make a big joke out of the Jason "legend." Paul says that "that is the last he wants to hear about Jason" (paraphrasing). Also, why would someone be so adamant about another part of a lake being off limits. I get it - it is closed down but what is the actual harm of checking out an old abandoned camp site other than the law? I'm talking about actual harm, not a scolding or a citation. The local sheriff(just a side note / thought? What officially is that character because his car says state police but his getup says local cop/sheriff) says "Its been quiet for 5 years and we'd like to keep it that way." This is very odd behavior for 3 guys familiar with the area. Remember, Ted knew the tow truck guy/local owner. Remember the bar scene when Ginny talks about Jason being a "frightened retard" and "crying out for her resurrection" (paraphrasing) ? Paul has a pretty serious look on his face, and clearly is agitated by Ginny bringing it up.

Thirdly, towards the end when we find Ginny in Jason's shack. Please let me know if I'm being dense (nicely) but how did Paul know where to find Ginny? Did he know of the shack? If he knew of the shack then he must have known something about this prowler/intruder/attacker that just knocked him out. Unless, was there an off-screen clue for Paul that led him to the shack. I genuinly would like to know if anyone else thought "How the heck did Paul know to go there." Do you think the writer's just left a hole again? Either way, makes for an interesting discussion IMO Also . . .

Fourthly: "Where's Paul?" A lot assume he's dead, Jason put his body somewhere, etc,etc. But, what if Paul ran off after Ginny blacked out (assuming the last part is a dream sequence)because he knew he was at the least, partially responsible for this taking place? He was warned not to let the kids go over there, he was told his camp "should have been another county over." Could he have known about Jason, or, at the least, known about some shady hillybilly that he saw from a distance, heard about around town:"If you listen to the locals, they'll tell you he's still out there." Maybe Paul wasn't certain about Jason, had this bad feeling about that shack in the woods plus the local stories or potentially thinking he saw him, and was conflicted from the get go, trying to hide the fact that he was uneasy about the whole situation, making light of it to cover it up or to fool himself and generally getting agitated at the thought of Ginny (who he's in a serious relationship with mind you) thinking its all real. Think about Paul's expressions, also, think back specifically to Paul's expression and reaction when they enter the cabin after the bar. To me, at least in one watching, seems like a guy who knew this was all a possibility.

What do you think about Paul's knowledge about Jason? Do you think Paul was a guy with something to hide?


One does not simply keep clear of the moors . . .

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bump

Horror flick watch list: The Sacrament, Late Phases, The Babadook, VHS 3

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(EPILOGUE)

"Paul? Paul? Where's Paul?", Jenny frantically exclaimed. "You'll be fine Miss." she heard the deputy say as she was loaded into an ambulance bound for Wessex County Medical Center. The last thing she remembered was a dog, a crash, and being grabbed but was it real? Paul and Muffin were nowhere to be found and the EMTS were not talking. Perhaps just being alive was enough to be thankful she thought as she exhaled and then drifted back into unconsciousness.

At the cabins though, thankfulness was being replaced by feelings of fear and incompetence by the local authorities. "Mike", shouted deputy William Slawsky, "better come look at this. We found John Winslow!" Mike O'Hanlon, a 14 year veteran of the Wessex County Sheriff's office, and two other officers followed to the spot where Frank Barns, one of the local EMTS, had found deputy Winslow's body. "You may wanna cover your nose, the smell is horrendous in here."

The stench of blood, rotting flesh, human feces, animal feces and rotted wood was too much. "What the *beep* is this place?!" O'Hanlon mused. "Not sure, but look in this room." muttered Barns. As Barns threw back the door, the small party of EMTS and officers began to turn white at the sight they saw. "Holy Mary, Mother of God," cried O'Hanlon. Todd Caron, another rookie EMT, proceeded to lose his breakfast all over his shoes at the sights he saw. "Please tell me that THAT head is not the head of Pamela Voorhees?" O'Hanlon nervously muttered.

"Can't be sure. And I think we may have just found the corpse of Alice Hardy." said Barns. "Is the coroner on his way?" Barns replied, "He has been called. Stan should be arriving soon." They all proceeded to leave. As O'Hanlon pulled a cigarette from his shirt pocket, he noticed a piece of what looked like cloth draped over a small branch about 30 yards away from the shack. As he grabbed it, he noticed there was a hole in it where it would be feasible to see out of. "I think the killer may have been wearing this." Barns mused, "an old sack?" "Where is Paul Holt?" O'Hanlon muttered out loud.

By this time, another group of EMTS had arrived at the shack. "How many?" "2 fresh kills, a corpse and a severed head. Take Winslow and the girl for now. MY ORDERS!" screamed O'Hanlon. Just then deputy Ron Sloan yelled, "MIKE, GET OVER HERE QUICK!" O'Hanlon dropped his smoke and ran back to the place where he located the sack. "MIKE, HERE!" Another 25 yards and O'Hanlon saw Ron Sloan standing over Paul Holt's lifeless body with his throat slit. "Oh wow. I just knew this *beep* was gonna happen again sooner or later." Ron Barns, nervous and almost in tears hushly added, "yes, but that's not all Mike." O'Hanlon looked at Barns with terminal fear as Ron rolled Paul Holt over and lifted up his shirt.

Carved into his back, with uncanny precision with a sharp object and nearly dried in blood, were words confusing, scary but words that may just be a clue.

"MOMMY IS PLEZED"

(the end)





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[deleted]

They should have done that in the movie. Would have been a creepy ending.

Reportin' live for Black TV: White folks are dead, we gettin' the f*@# outta here!

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any other takers?

A man remembers his debts . . .

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what you're saying is definitely plausible and would make sense. I honestly think it was a mistake on the part of the film makers, or some kind of oversight. Or they may have wanted to leave it loose so people like us would analyse the scene for years to come

Welcome to prime time bitch

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Interesting stuff.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

damn - good point

maybe he isn't local, but had gotten to know some of the locals over time, still not completely familiar with all the surroundings/places of business?

A man remembers his debts . . .

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Right before Ginny and Paul were gonna lay tonsil hockey, she says something like "you know there's something I have to tell you", or something similar, but he proceeds to kiss her, and we never get an answer. I'd HAVE to know what a girl wanted to tell me at a moment like that. What do you think she was gonna say to him?

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I always wondered that too. Maybe she was gonna tell him she's pregnant? That's what it seemed like.

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love that it leaves it open ended for us to churn over

hmmm, I had always thought after the "Beware the bears thing" that once he started kissing her and sending her "the message" that she was telling him, just so you know, I'm on my period and, well, that didn't matter a whole lot

but, could be something more like she was pregnant

that's about all I can think of, unless it was going to be something about having an uneasy feeling about what a local / friend told her about the place

A man remembers his debts . . .

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I always thought Paul's knowledge of Camp Blood folklore would have come from Ted the local boy, although you'd think he'd know where all the after hour bars are in town? Apparently he did find one, and it saved his ass in the end!

-Happy birthday zipper head!

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I thought I read somewhere (might have even been in another thread) that Paul was friends with Steve Christy and knew of Alice - anyone else read about this? Wasn't sure if that was from one of the novels or completely fan-made.

If that comes from one of the novels, then his character better have run away if he survived - because he'd have a lot of explaining to do

That chopper up there could give us away if somebody comes messin' around

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[deleted]

Paul did seem to know more. maybe because he was a camp counselor. or the writers screwed up.

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Camp Director in fact! (or owner, or president or, I dunno . . . head honcho)

i'm convinced that Paul was weary from the start and the joking around about the murders and Jason living were a deflection of his fears

I mean - Ted HAD to know that the tree in the middle of the road was a bad sign (or at the least, a practical joke by Paul or someone else he knew) and he would have mentioned it just in case - his reaction to the tree was telling - and, if it was at least someone trying to tell them to stay away, you'd think they wouldn't want to mess with that

That chopper up there could give us away if somebody comes messin' around

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Wow, it's too good for Hollywood. I love it. It's so eerie, it's the ending this movie has always deserved. Thank you for sharing this.

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Some say Ted didn't believe in Jason, so, why the dreaded look when they find the stump in the road? I'm telling you, Paul and/or Ted know something the others don't.

They both, at the very least, feel uneasy given the ol'timers' stories about Jason being alive.

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Just like a typical small town from a Stephen King novel, Camp Crystal Lake had one of those dark secrets that only the locals or "old timers" kept to themselves. When you consider all the characters who knew of either Jason still being alive, or the camp being "jinxed" i.e. Crazy Ralph, Enos the trucker, everyone at the cafe where Annie hitches a ride, Deputy Winslow, Ted etc, it's not a huge stretch that Paul seriously considered the possibility that someone or something is behind this cursed area, especially after the only girl who survived the first massacre went missing? Perhaps it was merely cognitive dissonance on Pauls part, realizing there isn't a damn thing he can do but ignore it, and hope that another tragedy doesn't unfold on his watch. He was quite adamant about NOT venturing off into Camp Blood territory, there had to be a reason for it?

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exactly - best explanation for Paul and Ted characters I've read - makes you wonder if Paul really is dead or, was on the run because he was going to be held partially responsible for the massacre

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One could certainly make the argument that he was culpable for the deaths of those camp counsellors, seeing how he was warned by police. Going out to the bar and getting sh*t faced the night of Jason's rampage didn't help either lol!!!

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I-IV are in my que to watch over the next month.

Has anyone else heard that the Paul and Steve Christy characters were friends or at least acquaintances? This adds a whole new element to this thread discussion IMO.

I don't recall this from the F13 Pt 2 novelization but I haven't read it in a while.

If they were, Paul knows even more and it has me looking at the character differently.

Also, now I'm beginning to wonder if Paul would really be all that responsible, because, after all, there is insurance and waivers, and, the area actually permitting this (officially even) camp site to open brings his culpability into question. At worst, he might get endangerment or negligence along with those approving the camp site. He absolutely would get dragged through civil court.

Thoughts everyone?

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[deleted]

Interesting.

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A most intriguing theory!

î‚’Horror_Metalî‚’

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it really brings a whole other conversation to the table that makes me appreciate this, IMO, underrated sequel even more - the leads and main supporting did a great job with just some subtle expressions during their interactions

then, there are times where, especially during October / Halloween season, where I just love doing a marathon because i'm in the spirit - turn all the lights off except for some dimly lit lamps, grab some snacks and some brew, turn the brain off, and enjoy

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to tie into another thread about "the other counselors that went to the bar with them"

no one decided to go back in time for the killing spree I guess . . .or can we assume some of them came back and they were the ones that called the authorities/911?

I'm guessing they all met together afterwards, or at a funeral . . .perhaps we can fill in the blanks that the funeral, or hospital (or both) is where Ted and co. filled in Rob (from Final Chapter) about what had happened, and perhaps Ted spilled the beans a little bit on what he and/or Paul really knew to Rob

My guess is that Ted and Rob had some discussions . . .perhaps even heated ones about Sandra? Maybe Ted was in town for F13 events . . .but now I'm creating fan fiction

There is def a tie-in story here, along with the 62' occurrences, to be had

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I'm replying, again, as this is a top thread made by yours truly, before the board is good and dead

Who would you rather have on top of your automobile - Tawny Kitaen or Julie Carmen?

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This is a tough one doc. Going to say neither, I''l go with the chick George Michael cheated on in Careless Whisper. Its been a blast my friend!

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Chopper - miss you old friend!

You have fantastic taste in video-star gals

Who would you rather have on top of your automobile - Tawny Kitaen or Julie Carmen?

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Ginny was going to tell Paul she got her period, that's why the following morning he jokingly writes 'beware of bears' on the mirror.

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