Is Tony supposed to be Little Pete's father? I mean, when Tony and the band are back in Kansas, Tony looks at Little Pete and a flashback of the blonde waitress chick he apparently did it with is shown. Is this supposed to mean that Tony realizes that he's Little Pete's father? Help me, I'm confused! LOL
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Okay, thanks for answering. My next big question is if Little Pete was Tony's son, why wouldn't he act like a father and take strict responsibility? I know Tony was a junkie and whatnot, but I mean, Little Pete was his kid, man. He shouldn't have acted like he was his pal, but rather an adult figure. Also, why didn't Little Pete call Tony Dad? And why did Tony abandon his own son on the park bench?
shareSeems like Tony just did not want to take responsibility for the life he created. He was also a junkie and was dismayed at the loss of his girlfriend Frankie. Guess little Pete would not have turned out to be as great as he did if his loser dad stuck around.
share hard to say as it's just a movie and it unfolded as the artist wanted.
Tony didn't know about little Pete until year and years later so he really could do much by the time they met. The simple fact the little Pete didn't touch drugs but had no problem enslaving others with them didn't even bother me...
.. What bothers me is the ending of the movie and the lack of insight into what music was going to be big in the 1980's.
hard to say as it's just a movie and it unfolded as the artist wanted.
Tony didn't know about little Pete until years and years later so he really couldn't do much by the time they met. The simple fact the little Pete didn't touch drugs but had no problem enslaving others with them didn't even bother me...
.. What bothers me is the ending of the movie being filtered Live action and the lack of insight into what music was going to be big in the 1980's.
".. What bothers me is the ending of the movie being filtered Live action and the lack of insight into what music was going to be big in the 1980's."
The main focus of this film is the family and its road to success with the evolution of American popular music as the background...not the other way around. If you look at it this way—that Pete's stardom is the culmination of generations of brushes with musical greatness rather than that poorly-performed rockabilly is the culmination of the evolution of music or that it's going to be the next big thing (how could anyone know in 1981 what would be big over the rest of the decade?)—then the ending is a lot more acceptable.
No way, man! NIGHT MOVES was the greatest song ever recorded as of 1981, the culmination of 80 years of American pop music, from Scott Joplin to Hendrix and Jefferson Airplane to BOB SEGER, man! It's not the money, man! I will take the coke! (closes briefcase). Too!
"Enough of that technical talk, Foo!"
"the culmination of 80 years of American pop music," About that, I'm not so sure. "Night Moves" is an awesome song, though. What makes my skin crawl is the cruddily-sung rockabilly medley that immediately follows it.
share1) Since Tony was a junkie of course he COULDN'T take any responsibility, and he never matured himself, so how could he take care of a kid? He was still in he "rebel" mode, even tho he should have grown out of it after the 60's were over...
2) I figured Little Pete knew he was on shakey ground and didn't want to bum Tony out by calling him Dad. He wanted Tony's respect, more as an equal than father-son...
3) Lastly, I thought Tony abandoned his son because he knew that ultimately he was doing more harm than good by sticking around, better to leave the kid to fate than keep dragging him down with him. That and he was kind of a selfish b@stard of course.
I wonder if Little Pete would have had a kid who ended up in a boy-band or a rap group or something, if the film kept going.
I can shuffle cut and deal but I can't draw a hand
Something others seem to have neglected is that Tony also seemed to resent Little Pete. The blonde back in Kansas was probably Tony's out, his one chance at happiness... and he let it fall through his hands. Imagine being in that situation, you're a junkie, your life's out of control... and suddenly you run into the son of the only woman you ever loved.
By the way, Little Pete may have been the girl's son, but it was never said it was Tony's. Little Pete says he was named after his father. Why do we assume the father is Tony?
So, aside from the fact that Tony was a screw up and a junkie and a rebel and in all other words, unable to accept responsibility... I think there's a big factor of resentment in the way he reacted to the kid.
"By the way, Little Pete may have been the girl's son, but it was never said it was Tony's. Little Pete says he was named after his father. Why do we assume the father is Tony?"
Because the film is about multi-generations of one family. It would make little sense that they would give us the history of these generations through many decades, following the lives of each male family member, then have the finale end with someone that's not even blood related. Also, Tony gives Pete Tony's own father's harmonica, which was his way of acknowledging Pete was his son. Tony also says that maybe Pete got his musical talent from Tony's father...No reason to say this if Pete wasn't his kid.
Yes, little Pete does say he is named after his father...but most likely his mother lied about who Little Pete's father was(not exactly an uncommon thing)- maybe she didn't want Pete to know his real father's name so he wouldn't look for him. Maybe she was ashamed to tell her son that she had a one night stand with a drifter.
My head hurts, my teeth itch, my feet stink, and I don't love Jesus.share
One could argue that a family is what it is. Tony and Pete were a family, although it certainly not a normal one. Whether or not Pete was Tony's biological child is not as relevant as it would appear. If Tony thinks that Pete is his son, and treats him as he would his real son, then details are secondary IMO.
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So I woke up in Detroit with a knife in the back of my leg, and three dollars taped to my chest
...Whether or not Pete was Tony's biological child is not as relevant as it would appear. If Tony thinks that Pete is his son, and treats him as he would his real son, then details are secondary IMO.
The whole relationship of Pete to Tony is very relevant. It's pretty much the whole premise of the movie. The relationship one family has surrounding American popular music. If Pete wasn't Tony's biological son, then why the flashback of the blond waitress when he first sees him? That's telling us very clearly that Pete was the result of that one-night stand. If not, why the run-in with the waitress at all? How would it be relevant to the rest of the story if it wasn't a set up for another member of the Belinksy family to come into play?
Charlie Murphy!!- Dave Chappelle as Rick James share
I completely agree with your that their relationship is critical to the movie. What I am saying is that their biological relationship is not as critical as compared to what Tony believes their relationship to be.
Tony is not omniscient. He sees the kid, thinks to the waitress, and in his mind decides that the kid is his son. We can interpret it that it is his biological son, who then magically happens to run into his dad, or we can look at it that Tony wants a son to pass on the family heritage to, Pete is in search of a father, and so they both fill those missing roles in each other's lives.
Just as pop music is redefined in each successive generation, so is the nature of the family. Its really no different than an adopted child. They're not your biological offspring, but you treat them as such, and instill into them your values, your experience etc.
I don't think there is anything incorrect if you want to assume that Pete is the child of Tony and the waitress, but I believe this can be open to other interpretations such as mine.
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So I woke up in Detroit with a knife in the back of my leg, and three dollars taped to my chest
I never said that Tony was omniscient, but try looking at this more from Pete's point of view. Why else would he show up backstage not really intermingling with the band, but wanting to talk to Tony who was just their songwriter? I really wish that we were shown how Pete found out about Tony in the first place, but we would have to assume that his mother or someone close to him gave him the run down of his parents' encounter and Pete ran away from home to find his father. Plus, in their final scene together, they pretty much establish their relationship with the whole, "why the hell do you think?" exchange.
I don't think there's really much to interpret if you are willing to accept the very obvious clues the film gives us. There's nothing wrong with adoption in the very slightest, but for this film and this family, just taking in some random kid just cheapens everything that Tony, Benny and Zalmie went through to get to that point. Pete represents that final destination that the rest of them wanted but never got to.
The difference between a lady and a flower girl is not how she behaves, but how she is treated.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I never said your way could not happen, I just had a different interpretation of what I saw in the movie. Neither one is correct nor incorrect, so unless there is a director's cut in which Pete busts out a DNA test, we're both just speculating.
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So I woke up in Detroit with a knife in the back of my leg, and three dollars taped to my chest
I'm friends with Ron Thompson who played Tony/Adult Pete. Do you want me to ask him for both of us to finally settle this?
EDIT: Okay, I just got finished talking to Ron and he said that Pete is Tony's biological son and that Ralph Bakshi did indeed write it that way. Here is the link to our conversation on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/100ronthompso/posts/629805117079154
The difference between a lady and a flower girl is not how she behaves, but how she is treated.
Don't see anything other than a FB page, but its all good, as it seems really important to you to be right about this, he's his biological son.
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So I woke up in Detroit with a knife in the back of my leg, and three dollars taped to my chest
I redid the link, though I'm pretty sure it wouldn't make any difference to you and I'm not appreciating the condescending tone at all. Frankly, this debate is becoming more and more like throwing stones in the Grand Canyon. I don't need to believe I'm right because I already know I am. You're the one waving the wild theory around, so let me be the one to absolve you. Believe what you want to believe, it's fine.
The difference between a lady and a flower girl is not how she behaves, but how she is treated.
You've been on imdb for 13 years and you still get worked up about someone disagreeing with you?
I'm not appreciating the pompous grandiosity, but I didn't feel the need to call you out on that.
But I appreciate the absolution, I'm gonna pop over to the Hobbit board now and start sowing around wild theories about Bilbo being Gandalf's son.
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So I woke up in Detroit with a knife in the back of my leg, and three dollars taped to my chest
Just giving you a taste of your own medicine. Sour, isn't it? Enjoy The Hobbit board, hon.
The difference between a lady and a flower girl is not how she behaves, but how she is treated.
Quite amusing actually, you're a funny guy. Hope this makes your next script lol.
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So I woke up in Detroit with a knife in the back of my leg, and three dollars taped to my chest
The key is the ice blue eyes, as well as the flashback to Tony's time at the diner. He knows it's his son as soon as he looks up and sees the kid's eyes.
Besides, this was at a time when directors and writers didn't feel they needed to spell things out so blatantly, and used things like visuals and editing to clue the audience in on a story point.
Something others seem to have neglected is that Tony also seemed to resent Little Pete. The blonde back in Kansas was probably Tony's out, his one chance at happiness... and he let it fall through his hands. Imagine being in that situation, you're a junkie, your life's out of control... and suddenly you run into the son of the only woman you ever loved.
yup watch when he hands him the harmonica and says my dad gave me this now im giving it to you and little pete says why and says why do you think
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Yes, Tony is Little Pete's father. He knew it right away. He gave the harmonica to Little Pete because he was his son.
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