MovieChat Forums > Simon & Simon (1981) Discussion > What Were Seasons 5-8 Like?

What Were Seasons 5-8 Like?

posted 10 years ago by pacwarbuff
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I am hesitant to "pull the trigger" on picking up seasons 5-8 of S&S. For many reasons, I associate the show with my middle school years, when it was the show most of us remember. From what I've read about those latter seasons, S&S was another victim of "Miami Vice-ification", eschewing its light touch and moving towards too many "serious" episodes. I don't mind an intense episode but not at the expense of the characters. If anyone's seen those last few years and can write a season-by-season rundown of the tenor of the program during that time, I'm all ears. Is it still worth getting?

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[–] senorlimpo 10 years ago

Hi, Pac
As much as I'd like to say buy them all, I can't, and I consider myself a huge fan of the show. S. 5 & 6 are well worth the money, but 7 & 8 are iffy. I have the entire series, but there's literally a handfull of episodes in the last 2 seasons that make it worth the money. 5 & 6, however, are up to par with what us fans expect. S. 5 even comes with the reunion movie from '95.
I hope this helps.

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[–] pacwarbuff 10 years ago

Hi, Pac
As much as I'd like to say buy them all, I can't, and I consider myself a huge fan of the show. S. 5 & 6 are well worth the money, but 7 & 8 are iffy. I have the entire series, but there's literally a handfull of episodes in the last 2 seasons that make it worth the money. 5 & 6, however, are up to par with what us fans expect. S. 5 even comes with the reunion movie from '95.
I hope this helps.

Thank you for your reply. I took advantage of Shout Factory's "March Madness" 15% discount and just received seasons 6-8 (as well as season one) though I haven't begun watching the latter seasons yet. I like S&S enough that I'm pretty sure I'll enjoy most every episode. I tend to like the latter periods of TV shows anyway (Mission: Impossible; Hawaii Five-O). Hopefully after having seen these I can initiate some discussion here and wake this board up; Simon & Simon is largely forgotten these days.

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[–] senorlimpo 10 years ago

Once you watch them, I'd welcome a discussion. I agree that these boards have gone stale.
In the meantime, I'm curious as to what your favourite episodes from each season are...

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[–] pacwarbuff 10 years ago

What I'd like to do is start with S1 and go through the entire series episode by episode: observations, memorable dialogue, Simon continuity, character back story, notable use of music, and then affix a 1-4 star rating to each episode. It's probably more suited to a blog but I enjoy the interaction of those who might become regulars on this board; I'd even save the threads since the IMDb powers-that-be delete things without notice.

Once you watch them, I'd welcome a discussion. I agree that these boards have gone stale.
In the meantime, I'm curious as to what your favourite episodes from each season are...

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[–] h-corbett 10 years ago

Some things about the continuity I noticed are when you start watching season 2 be sure to start with the episode "Art for Arthur's Sake", it was the first episode filmed for the second season. Also, you should watch "Psyched Out" before "Murder Between the Lines" because the brothers office layout changes in "Murder..." but if you watch them in airdate order the continuity is a little off. Another thing is the episode "Bail Out" from season 3 was actually filmed during season 2 so you might want to watch that one before starting season 3. These are just a few continuity errors I noticed.

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[–] pacwarbuff 10 years ago

That's an interesting observation, h-corbett. Thank you for pointing it out. I wonder if there's an online resource which organizes Simon & Simon in production order?

As for my own S&S viewing, I am halfway through season one. I will most likely go through it again and take copious notes for the purposes of my season-by-season reviews, for which I will begin a new thread. I'm looking forward to doing that as well as reading my fellow S&S fans' thoughts.

Some things about the continuity I noticed are when you start watching season 2 be sure to start with the episode "Art for Arthur's Sake", it was the first episode filmed for the second season. Also, you should watch "Psyched Out" before "Murder Between the Lines" because the brothers office layout changes in "Murder..." but if you watch them in airdate order the continuity is a little off. Another thing is the episode "Bail Out" from season 3 was actually filmed during season 2 so you might want to watch that one before starting season 3. These are just a few continuity errors I noticed.

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[–] h-corbett 10 years ago

"I wonder if there's an online resource which organizes Simon & Simon in production order?"

You can check out epguides. They list production numbers, but there not always 100% reliable.

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[–] pacwarbuff 10 years ago

You can check out epguides. They list production numbers, but there not always 100% reliable.

I remember that site! Thank you for the reminder.

I'm two discs into S5 and am enjoying everything so far. I'm also adding categories to the review template. Since seasons five-eight are completely new to me, I'll probably review those first and then go through seasons one-four. I hope I won't be by myself in this once those threads begin.

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[–] pacwarbuff 10 years ago

I'm mid way into S5 and like most of what I see. The opening credits are notable in that there appeared to be an attempt to "Miami Vice" things up by emphasizing San Diego. The seagulls, the reflection in the skyscraper, and the bikini-clad model getting washed over by the surf (and clenching up in advance of the bracing water no doubt!). I suppose the producers of S&S wanted to show off San Diego like Vice did for Miami instead of just being itself. This Miami Vice-ification would also afflict Magnum, P.I., with the latter's select use of then-current pop songs as musical underscore.

I'll get to individual episode reviews in a separate thread.

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[–] h-corbett 10 years ago

Speaking of Miami Vice, be sure to keep an eye out for a little cross-over of sorts at the end of the last episode in season 5. Rick makes a gesture to A.J. about two men who are dressed suspiciously like Crockett and Tubbs.

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[–] pacwarbuff 10 years ago

Lots of lightweight episode--many in a row--as the fifth season winds down: Walk a Mile in My Hat, Sunrise at Camp Apollo, The Blue Chip Stomp, Something for Sarah, and Mobile Home of the Brave are all pretty flimsy but still enjoyable. It should be pretty easy to come up with a top five for this batch of shows and I will do so upon completing the season.

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[–] pacwarbuff 10 years ago

While Simon & Simon's fifth season has largely proven to be a lightweight affair, the show is still a lot of fun. The episode Family Forecast is deceptively satiric in its stabs at the kind of people who watch and participate in game shows. Social and societal commentary is a rare thing in the conformist 1980s but S&S often had it, usually through comments Rick would say. The late, great Kenneth Mars is spot on as game show host Fritz Markham and Charles Cioffi-sporting yet another bad toupee--is effectively cold and ruthless in a nonetheless underwritten role. Frequent guest star Gary Lockwood musters some energy in his small but sleazy role.

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[–] pacwarbuff 9 years ago

My top five for season five:

1) Love and/or Marriage- Nice use of unconventional filming techniques, like one would have seen in the late '60s-early '70s. A more serious tone than what we're used to on S&S; something that will be more prevalent in seasons 7 and 8, apparently.

2) Quint is Out- Simon & Simon meets Cape Fear. William Smith is his usual menacing self.

3) Family Forecast- The late, great Kenneth Mars as a game show host. More like episodes from the first four seasons (sound familiar?) This episode excoriates the dopey people who watch TV game shows.

4) Walk a Mile in My Hat- Rick assumes A.J's identity while the latter is away in order to take a case. A.J. returns home in the middle of this madness.

5) A Significant Obsession- A.J. gets an obsessive (and pre-Fatal Attraction) admirer.

Season five had a long consecutive run of lightweight-even-for-S&S-type episodes, but since the cast is always such fun, I don't mind, but the best episodes are the ones that have a bit more "meat" on them, which is why I selected the more serious adventures.

Now it's on to season six.

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[–] pacwarbuff 9 years ago

My top five episodes for season six:

1.Still Phil After All These Years- A.J. and Rick dig up a time capsule for Cecilia's high-school reunion - and discover evidence in a 40-year-old murder case. Nice use of flashbacks and casting of Stuart Whitman as Celia Simon's onetime high school love.

2. The Cop Who Came to Dinner- Downtown Brown is invited to stay with the Simons when he gets injured, but he forgets to tell them about the threat on his life. A fine comedic performance from Tim Reid and his annoyance at being held at A.J.'s house makes this episode a standout. Reid was such a great part of Simon & Simon.

3. The Rookie- An inexperienced policewoman suspects that her veteran partner (John Herd) is dealing drugs. Herd is really good in this and the last scene is dramatically effective in large part to his performance. It's no wonder he was asked back to reprise his role the following season.

4. Second Story Simons- The Simons get back stolen top-secret files from a Yugoslavian envoy, then are told to return them to the FBI so they can catch the thief with the evidence. The guys get to do lots of breaking-and-entering-style sneaking around and law bending as they try and snare an evil (1980s style) secret agent.

5. The Last Big Break- A surfer who supposedly drowned 20 years ago is alive - and a target for murder. I like these 1960s "Californieccentric" episodes. I also enjoy it whenever A.J. and Rick reveal their hero worship from their past.

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[–] pacwarbuff 8 years ago

My top five episodes for season seven:

1. Nuevo Salvador- A Salvadoran death squad tries to get past the Simons in order to apprehend a relief worker helping refugees. Henry Darrow guest stars and is his usually excellent self. Nuevo Salvador is about as dark and gritty as Simon & Simon ever got. The ending is pretty damned intense. I would even say that this episode is Simon & Simon's "Did You See the Sunrise?" in terms of its emotional impact.

2. May the Road Rise Up- The Simons look for the real story behind their father's death, which forces them to face emotions long thought to be buried. Another highly emotional story but one with love at its core rather than brutality. We finally learn what happened to A.J. and Rick's father. The episode plays out like it could have been the series finale but thankfully we'd get another season, albeit a shortened 13-episode season. This is a story that I desperately wanted to see as a fan back when I watched the series regularly. I only saw the first four seasons back in the 1980s so everything from season five and on has been brand new to me.

3. Sudden Storm- Against Abby's direct orders, A.J. and Rick go after two likely suspects after Cecilia is raped. The guys' reaction to this horrific event and Mary Carver's excellent handling of it makes for another powerhouse episode. It easily could have gone over into embarrassing melodrama, but not here.

4. Tale of the Tiger- Rick is unwilling to accept that his old Army buddy is the head of a Vietnamese mob. Anytime Rick Simon's Vietnam days are featured is always worth watching. I love it when Gerald McRaney gets crazy!

5. Second Swell- A.J. reunites with his high-school sweetheart on a case when a killer from A.J.'s past comes back for revenge. As is the recurring theme for season seven, we get a "personal" case. This time it's A.J. whose high school flame is in trouble with the bad guys. A good story with a nice twist that gives us insight into A.J.'s character.

The sixteen episodes strengthens season seven and we get some classic episodes as a result of there not being so many average or lightweight stories. Season seven gets my highest recommendation.

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[–] pacwarbuff 8 years ago

Here's the top five for season eight:

1. Ain't Gonna Get it from Me, Jack- After ripping apart the Simons on his program, a talk-show host hires them to find out who's sending him death threats. Worth it just for the fine performance by the great Jerry Orbach, who plays a Morton Downey, Jr-type talk show host.

2. Play it Again, Simon- A.J. takes on the personality of a hard-nosed detective in the search for a mystery writer's missing manuscript. A story right out of the Book of Bellisario! AJ is seemingly back in the 1940s as a hardboiled P.I though he doesn't fare as well as someone like, say, Tom Selleck does in this kind of role. Still, Jameson gives a game performance. Everyone gets to play dress up as different characters.

3. Simon & Simon and Associates- The Simons get more than they bargained for when they decide to add "& Associates" to their business. Another take on the Simons breaking a big case and gaining short-lived success. This time, they take on hired hands to do their grunt work.

4. Simon Says Goodbye- The Simons are hired to find Abby's friend's old flame so the woman can see him again before her wedding. The final episode of the series' 1981-89 run. Worth watching for the last scene between the brothers in the office and in the end credits, where it's clear that it's McRaney and Parker both in and out of character at once saying goodbye to each other and to us, their loyal audience. The episode is directed by McRaney.

5. First, Let's Kill All the Lawyers- Rick tries to settle out of court after Cecilia's lawyer friend grills him on the stand in the case of a murdered law student. The great Kevin McCarthy gives a balanced performance here. All I'll say is that it would be easy to despise his character for what he does but at the same time you understand and sympathize with him

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[–] jarrodmcdonald-1 8 years ago

You did a nice job summarizing the highlights of the later seasons. I am just starting to watch the early seasons on Hulu. So now I know what I can look forward to...I just wrote a review here on the IMDb for Season 3's "I Heard It Was Murder" which I liked. I grew up in the 80s but never watched the show back then. It's a fun time capsule, and the interaction between the leads is great.

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[–] pacwarbuff 7 years ago

I also grew up in the '80s and loved watching Simon & Simon as well as Magnum, P.I. However, at the time I only saw the first four seasons of S&S. I didn't even manage to watch seasons five through eight during the '90s when the A&E channel aired it seemingly every weekday afternoon. It's been great catching up with the second half of a series I enjoyed so much as a child.

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[–] jarrodmcdonald-1 7 years ago

I finished watching seasons 1-3 on Hulu and purchased season 4 from Target. But I haven't started looking at those episodes yet. I am definitely interested to see how the show progresses in the later years.

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[–] h-corbett 7 years ago

It's too bad you didn't catch the episodes when I uploaded them to YouTube a few years ago. I had briefly at one point uploaded every single episode on my channel, which was called 2604VeniceCanals.

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[–] tenement-funster 7 years ago

That was you! Thank you. :) It's so hard to get the DVDs in the UK. Somebody else has many episodes up now, but they're heavily edited. I've since been able to get hold of them, but your YT channel was a lovely little oasis a few years back!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I find concussion quite invigorating.

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[–] jarrodmcdonald-1 7 years ago

Thanks h-corbett. I have a feeling I am going to enjoy the later seasons more. I feel like some of the episodes of seasons 1, 2 & 3 are 'fluff.' I tend to prefer darker stories in this genre, so if Simon & Simon gets a bit more serious in its last 50 or 60 episodes, I am sure I will be (more than) okay with it.

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[–] pacwarbuff 7 years ago

Season five has more episodes one would call fluff than any other season, so be warned. One or two episodes are actually cringe inducing. Still, even the worst episodes are worth watching, if only for the peerless Parker-McRaney chemistry.

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[–] ringfire211 7 years ago

Season five has more episodes one would call fluff than any other season, so be warned. One or two episodes are actually cringe inducing

I wonder which one(s) you may be referring to. Could it be the one where a monkey (or ape?) witnesses a murder? Or the one about the game show - "Family Forecast"? I remember a really stupid one about some lady who's in training to become a witch and she hires the Simon brothers! What in the world was that about????

On the other hand it has "Quint is Out" which is probably my favorite episode.

Connery, Moore, and Brosnan! Accept NO substitutes!

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[–] pacwarbuff 7 years ago

Ringfire! Long time, no hear, Old Sport! I remember you well from the Five-0 boards.

I actually liked "Burden of the Beast" and "Family Forecast", the latter is in my S5 top five and is a subversive snipe at all those dopey game shows like "Wheel of Fortune."

The episodes I was thinking of were "Down-Home Country Blues" and "Mobile Home of the Brave." The former is imo among the worst in the series.

However, those episodes pale compared to season six's "Just Because I'm Paranoid", which is hands down the absolute worst episode of Simon & Simon. It's bad in that the script writer and director seem to despise the program itself. I've never seen that in a show before.

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[–] h-corbett 7 years ago

You think Down-Home Country Blues is a bad episode? I would put it in with some of the best. 'Mobile' and 'Paranoid' are okay but far from the worst. For me the worst episode of the series is 'Ancient Echoes', it's poorly written by Tim Reid and is just awful from start to finish.

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[–] ringfire211 7 years ago

Hey, pacwarbuff! Yep, I remember you from the FIVE-O boards too! I can't recall whether you were the big fan of "Rest in Peace, Somebody" but that's my favorite episode. "Playing judge, judging men better than you are, TIN IDOL!!!" Just a classic scene in a classic episode.

As for SIMON & SIMON yep I too thought that "Burden of the Beast" was a pretty unique and interesting story (but I can understand if some might find it too far-fetched or corny) and I guess "Family Forecast" was alright although my memory of it is kinda foggy.

Yeah I don't recall being too impressed with "Down Home Country Blues" - actually all I recall is that it featured country star Larry Gatlin but I don't even remember if he sang any of his popular songs. "Mobile Home" also I only have vague memories of. A mobile home family being pursued by the mob? But I don't remember any details.

Now I'm gonna disagree with you on season 6's "Paranoid". I actually thought it was one of the better episodes of the season. It's definitely not the worst of the series, not by a long shot. It's better than all the above episodes that were mentioned. I agree with h-corbett that "Ancient Echoes" was much worse.

Connery, Moore, and Brosnan! Accept NO substitutes!

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[–] pacwarbuff 7 years ago

As I made my top five episodes for seasons five through eight after the one viewing, I will go back to those "troubled" episodes mentioned previously and give them another shot. However, I am pretty sure "Paranoid" will remain my least favorite even if I base it on the campy training montages and idiotic guest stars who appear within said episode.

I don't remember much about "Ancient Echoes", but it too will get a rewatch.

No, ringfire, I'm not the "Rest in Peace, Somebody" Five-0 guy. I'm the "Lion in the Streets"/"Death Wish on Tantalus Mountain"/"The Jinn Who Clears the Way" guy. Seems you and I have vastly different preferences when it comes to Hawaii Five-0!

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[–] ringfire211 7 years ago

"Paranoid" guested Jenilee Harrison (Chrissy's cousin Cindy on THREE'S COMPANY) - did she do a bad job? I can't remember, it's been a while.

Do you seriously consider "Tantalus Mountain" and "Lion in the Streets" superior to "Rest in Peace"? I think those are pretty average episodes. Personally I could never place anything from season 12 above anything from the earlier seasons, especially the show's peak seasons 1 thru 6.

Connery, Moore, and Brosnan! Accept NO substitutes!

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[–] tenement-funster 7 years ago

"Cloak Of Danger" is the only episode I can think of that I would consider really bad, as in never-want-to-see-it-again bad. Mind you, it's been a long long time since I've seen "The Bare Facts", and I know that fans still wince over that one!

I enjoyed "Paranoid" though, and "Down Home Country Blues". "Ancient Echoes" was filled with typical TV Native American cliches, but the guest cast was good, and it wasn't all that bad really, I thought. Were I a Native American, I might view it differently.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I find concussion quite invigorating.

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[–] ringfire211 7 years ago

I enjoyed "The Bare Facts". I don't think anything from season 3 can be considered bad. Probably my favorite season.

Connery, Moore, and Brosnan! Accept NO substitutes!

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[–] h-corbett 7 years ago

Gatlin sang All The Gold in California at the beginning of the episode.

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[–] ringfire211 7 years ago

Oh, that's a good one! My favorite from Gatlin is "Houston Means that I'm One Day Closer to You". Also "Broken Lady" is another good one.

Connery, Moore, and Brosnan! Accept NO substitutes!

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[–] h-corbett 7 years ago

Season 7 is by far the darkest of the series with episodes about teenage prostitution, Salvadorian Death Squads, the rape of Cecilia Simon and the shooting death of a little boy.

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[–] ringfire211 7 years ago

No doubt season 7 was influenced by the likes of MIAMI VICE and THE EQUALIZER and HUNTER. Towards the later part of the 80s shows went darker.

Connery, Moore, and Brosnan! Accept NO substitutes!

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[–] pacwarbuff 7 years ago

Just rewatched "Down-Home Country Blues" again, and while it's not among the series' all-time worst, it's an average episode with some cringeworthy moments, but otherwise it's a fun piece of entertaining fluff. Review to follow, of course.

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[–] Doug-Oh 7 years ago

S&S is a very good show.
I loved watching it.

I grew up in the mid-late 70s when The Rockford Files was on (another great PI show).
I too loved Magnum & also enjoyed Riptide, which still airs on one of the subchannels here in Fla.

I never watched Miami Vice.

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