Who was the racist POS..



In one episode, a racist, idiotic Hill Street Blues cop calls someone 'curry breath", and says his immigration status is in danger, and so he should 'talk American".

The sheer brazenness of this line, and the fact that it went on uncensored and uncensured for all these years, is simply incredible. If that occurred now, the show might be suspended if not taken off the air. And the argument, 'those were less sophisticated times, and dialogue like that was a reflection of the times' would be wishy washy at best! This was the 1980's not Alabama at the end of the 19th century.

There are far more sophisticated, intelligent crime dramas being produced in the present, like Criminal Minds. Can you picture Hochner or Reid making a remark like 'curry breath' or 'tortilla face' or 'sushi chomper'. What a contrast to the ignorant, racist pieces of sh*t on Hill Street Blues. Whatever Hill Street Blues is a reflection of, I hope it's not representative of precincts all across the US.

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If you knew what episode featured this line, I'd like to watch it and see what the circumstances were, and which character said the line. Otherwise, it's difficult to respond to your post.

However, in general, it seems to me that you've hit on the answer, even though you dismiss it. Your comment, "If that occurred now," shows that you realize that much has changed over the thirty-plus years since HSB was aired. We should be conscious of the difference between then and now. If we expect current standards to be enforced in shows from the past, we merely devalue the progress that has been made since then. I want my kids to know what has been accomplished over the years, and seeing things we would find offensive now being treated in such a matter-of-fact way in the past makes such changes quite clear.

Finally, you seize on one line of dialogue spoken by one cop in a show that ran for seven seasons, and immediately stereotype the entire precinct as "ignorant, racist pieces of sh*t." Perhaps that cop isn't the only one guilty of illegitimate prejudice?

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It was epsiode 8 of season 3,and I believe the cop named Belker spoke those eloquent, elevated lines. Again, this was the 1980's, not the 1890's. Derogatory references to Blacks and Jews( let alone crude slang words to describe them) were almost unheard of in the 80's. Whose brilliant idea was it to make idiotic, almost illiterate references to East Indians, something acceptable? And bear in mind, that these lines were not contested in the least by anyone else in the room, so evidently the other cops thought it was fine. Just repulsive characters.

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Haven't had time to watch the episode, but now that I know it was Belker, that gives some explanation of the scene.

Belker was certainly "rough around the edges." He was portrayed as slightly "crazy." He went so far as to bite someone during a scuffle in one episode. But he was a brave and resourceful cop, outstanding at undercover work [and, it was a tv show], so he kept his job. He also tended to use "colorful" language--"dog breath" being one of his favorite epithets. So, it was consistent with his character that he might employ "curry breath" as a variation. Personally, I would rather be called "curry breath" than "dog breath." I wonder if you would be so incensed if the object of Belker's scorn was a German and Belker had referred to him as "sauerkraut breath?" I mean, on the scale of racist behavior, this seems pretty mild.

As far as the other cops being complicit in his "racism," I see it more as them knowing that Belker is a nut, and merely thinking, "There goes crazy Belker again"--not condoning him, but merely tolerating his outbursts in grudging respect for his abilities.

Finally, as I noted earlier, it was a different time. You seem to want to downplay the difference between the 80s and now, but much has changed since then. I'm sure that many real cops at the time were far more racist than this one comment by Belker demonstrates him to be. Again, based on one comment in a seven-year run, you're ready to condemn him, his fellow cops, and the show as havens for race hatred. Seems a bit extreme to me. However, if that's what you believe, I doubt that I can dissuade you.

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Okay, well that does mitigate things somewhat. It was in Belzer's character, and he did it to everyone. I watched very few episodes of the programme, and that was one of them. I do see these kind of crude remarks and scenes on shows like HSB, Hunter, Law and Order SVU and NYPD Blue. Not at all on Criminal Minds. I suppose it also depends on the level of education. Criminal Minds characters are all very educated and quite intellectual.

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I want to thank you. We entered this conversation with contrasting views, yet it remained civil and some degree of convergence was achieved. This is a rare and enjoyable event on the internet, where it's far more likely that one or both parties will immediately tell the other that he/she is a moron and should stick to watching Adam Sandler/Jim Carrey/Transformers, etc. [take your pick] movies.

I appreciate this highly unusual experience.

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No problem. Yes, disagreements, no matter how vehement they are, should remain civil. One could find something in a TV show or movie offensive, but discussion on the incident should be moderate, and devoid of insults back and forth.

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Derogatory references to Blacks and Jews( let alone crude slang words to describe them) were almost unheard of in the 80's.


You can't possibly be serious. I want to live in the dreamworld that you reside in!

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^^^

I'm referring to television programmes or even movies, and that too where the derogatory remark in question passed by without censure/criticism from any other character in the programme. The Hill Street Blues episode was one such, there were others. I realise that in real life, there were, and probably still are, crude and derogatory remarks made about Blacks and Jews. This one was against East Indians, though as one reader has observed, the character who uttered the line was well known for this kind of behaviour against everybody. It is still crude and jarring though, and it is certain that such a remark would not appear in any contemporary TV series, and definitely not without consequences!

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I realise that in real life, there were, and probably still are, crude and derogatory remarks made about Blacks and Jews. This one was against East Indians, though as one reader has observed, the character who uttered the line was well known for this kind of behaviour against everybody. It is still crude and jarring though, and it is certain that such a remark would not appear in any contemporary TV series, and definitely not without consequences!


Derogatory remarks as it applies to American film are not saved solely for the edification of, as you say "Blacks and Jews". Truly gritty and colorful films manage to insult all walks of life. Ever hear the phrases "Squeal like a pig?", "You better pray real good." or over hear someone refer to a couple of really grizzled mountain men as "Griner brothers"?

Watch the movie "Deliverance" for your answer. Edited to add: On second thought, maybe you shouldn't. Seriously, I'm feeling a bit guilty for suggesting it to you to make a point.

I have no idea how old your are but if you are incensed by the term "curry breath" and suffering from righteous indignation because other characters didn't behave offended by the comment you are really going to have a hard time in life.

Seriously, and I mean no put-down at the moment... if you are young, which after thinking about it, I think you must be young and inexperienced to be taking this comment about "curry breadth" to heart. You need to get over it. In reality, yes, it is an unkind thing to say and if you encounter some idiot saying it to you, for instance. It seems you have a few choices. First, and foremost, consider the source and context. Neither may be worth your time to get angry over because any person making comments like that to demean or disparage are sad little human beings.

Second, there are far more serious problems and situations that you will need to face and learn how to manage than an inaccurate remark from an ignorant human being.

Third, you need to learn to control how your react to remarks like this; in other words react with thought and not impulse. Impulsive reactions to words can put you in physical danger. There is a time a place. You can probably safely comment on your displeasure at such a remark from a coworker or an undereducated family member but it can be quit another thing to admonish a complete stranger on a street. Especially one who is already living rough.

I've made a few reactionary remarks here myself about your offense to HSB as a show because IMHO it's just silly; turn it off if it offends. But I share your concerns in REALITY in the real world we all need to censor our public remarks even if we feel otherwise. It doesn't no one good to say or hear such things.

Good luck to you.

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A large part of the problem is he's a Limey. They can actually be prosecuted for "racist" language.

"In the United Kingdom, several statutes criminalize hate speech against several categories of persons. The statutes forbid communication which is hateful, threatening, abusive, or insulting and which targets a person on account of disability, ethnic or national origin, nationality (including citizenship), race, religion, sexual orientation, or skin colour,. The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both"

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It has nothing to do with the level of education, but the PCing of America. You can't use words such as those that *outraged* you anymore, as others like you make a BFD about it.

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Actually, I don't think it was Belker, although it certainly sounds like one of his beauties. I think it came from Dennis Franz' first, more mean-spirited character that got killed off before TPTB brought him back as a Det.

I could be wrong about that though. You are for more congenial and patient than I am in responding to what I call "salvos for censorship of past films". A raucous notion beyond what might be needed for Network TV viewing in early evening programing.

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So now are those of the Hindu persuasion join all the other whining, pathetic minorities?

Put a sock in it instead of trolling old TV programs, trying to drum up sympathy. Nobody cares.

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Why be such a jerk, smokehill? The guy had a complaint, we discussed it--without the name-calling and invective which characterizes those who are incapable of intelligent discourse--and he reconsidered his complaint.

Now, after reaching a reasonable conclusion, you storm in with your pathetic verbiage and try to make trouble. If anyone in this thread is a troll, it's you.

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No Message

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Its amazing how efficient the self censoring have become thanks to years of political correct brainwashing.

Somehow censoring is ok, and free speech is not. All because of words and that someone can be "offered".

The real world is this: The person offended is the problem. Is they who should grow up and understand that word does not hurt.

People needs to study political correctness and its history. This is something that was started by Trotski and later refined in the Hamburg School with Freud.

Our politicians wants us to focus on stupid words instead of the huge problems that are in the country/world.

We have rape, murder and crime each day but that is not discussed because its more evil to call someone the Nword then murder someone.

PC is only in a few selected countries in the world. All countries with huge immigration and media owned by a small elit.

We are witnessing a genocide of a people in the world and they have managed to make us focus on words. Its sad how uneducated people are.

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If you're accusing me of "self-censorship," I plead guilty. Of course, I see it more as "politeness," or "civility"--old school values which predate political correctness by a long shot.

If one wants to decry the bastards who run our governments, the greedy corporatists who run them, be my guest. I hardly think you could be any harsher than I have been.

But, when relating to people one-to-one, especially people who aren't among the powerful who sacrifice our lives and happiness to serve their own self-aggrandizement, politeness, kindness, and understanding seem to be helpful--unless one just enjoys being a rude prick.

Nor do I see how common courtesy in our personal conversation means ignoring the deep injustices throughout the world.

I cannot understand why someone would feel that resurrecting a dead argument bears any resemblance to standing up to the powers that destroy our lives. If you want to be a hero--which you obviously think you are--try taking on the ones who cause such misery world-wide, rather than someone who reasonably brought up an objection and remained courteous throughout the discussion.

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Very well written. The other poster is not correct in stating that words don't matter at all. They _can_ do long term, if not lasting damage. Pychologists and sociologists are agreed on this.

Just to tie into the ethnic issue on crime dramas...

There's a tendency in police shows, to typecast certain ethnic groups into particular behavioural traits, and of course into specific crimes. Thus, East Indians are involved in honour killings or forced arranged marriages; Blacks and Latinos are gangstas or petty criminals; East Europeans are into prostitution and trafficking, with some shadowy link to Croatia, Albania or Russia. In real life, there are East Indian fraudsters/inside traders, sauve Black or Latino criminals, and East Europeans involved in crimes independent of the mafia and trafficking.

So while crude remarks seem to be a thing of the past, caricaturing appears to be alive and well!

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There's a tendency in police shows, to typecast certain ethnic groups into particular behavioural traits, and of course into specific crimes. Thus, East Indians are involved in honour killings or forced arranged marriages; Blacks and Latinos are gangstas or petty criminals; East Europeans are into prostitution and trafficking, with some shadowy link to Croatia, Albania or Russia. In real life, there are East Indian fraudsters/inside traders, sauve Black or Latino criminals, and East Europeans involved in crimes independent of the mafia and trafficking.

So while crude remarks seem to be a thing of the past, caricaturing appears to be alive and well!


Stirring the pot. Making judgements of Americans based upon your limited view of decades old television programs as if they were gospel. The thinking your discussing here we had back in the 70s. Find a different hobby, Varuns+-1. Or start looking for racism is some other countries old television programs. Go pick on Russia.

I believe the person decrying "political correctness" has a point. If we focus so much on not offending others by our speech we cripple ourselves. What is offense to one population may not even be considered in another population. If we are so easily offended by words we aren't listening to the actual meaning or intent behind them.

It reminds me of a documentary I watched back in the seventies. Elderly black people were being interviewed and asked if America was better now than it was when they were children?

The answer was surprising to me because I am white and at the time I watched this I was school aged. Why did it surprise me? Well, when I was very young I was not polite call people "n I g g e r" under any circumstance. I was told that people of African decent were "colords". They called themselves that. People of color in their skins.

Well, the old people in this documentary said in "the old days" you knew where you stood with "whites". If they didn't like you they told you right to your face. Sure they called us "n I g g I r s" but from some it wasn't offensive or hurtful, it just was what it was, but from many it was very hurtful. Now, today, you can't always tell who is out to hurt you, they hide their hate better because we own the word. We use it and they (the "whites") don't. We get angry when they use our word and they teach their young not to use it. But it's sometimes much harder to tell what lies underneath the words.

What I learned from this was the way to gain self respect was to take control of the insult so it can no longer hurt you. And, just because sweet words are being used doesn't mean there can't be poison behind them.

So we as human beings should be cautious about just how offended we feel we should be cautious about quickly banning the use of words just because a few are finding them offensive.

Sorry for the rant, but here's a new one that actually galls me although I understand the intent. Banning the word "retard" or "retarded" and exchanging it for the R-word. It's ridiculous. The word retard means the slowing of...
To call a slower moving or slower thinking person a retard is offensive. That's why we have parents and teachers to teach us not to be so hateful of people different from ourselves.

I have a friend whose son is clinically retarded. It's a medical term for his specific type of disability. To say her son is retarded is not offensive. To call him a retard is. What we need to do here in America is take responsibility for the bullies and knock them down a peg or two, not opt to mask words or stop using them altogether.

Rant over.

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C'mon!!! He bit people, for goodness sake! And he is one of the most endearing, memorable characters ever created. When he and Robyn were going through his mum's stuff after she died... unbeatable television. And if a policeman happens to speak to a crook in a less than PC manner... it happens sometimes.

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Never mind the words, HSB featured an array of savage/subhuman Hispanic and black characters, usually as perps. One scene that would NEVER pass muster nowadays would be from the pilot: Hill & Renko answer a domestic violence call and find a black woman menacing her teenage daughter with a knife while her husband, the girl's stepfather, cowers in a closet. Renko want to haul the woman to jail, but Hill decides to calm everyone down. The guy has apparently had sex at least once with his underage stepdaughter because his wife hasn't fulfilled his voracious sexual appetite. Hill cools everybody down and lays out some new "rules" for the household to follow. The man has confessed to statutory rape, but it gets glossed over like "ho-hum, whaddya expect from these animals?"
In another early episode, Goldblume is driving back to the stationhouse when one of the front tires blows. When he gets out to change it, a crowd of menacing black "corner boys" immediately confront and threaten him.

"May I bone your kipper, Mademoiselle?"

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One scene that would NEVER pass muster nowadays would be from the pilot: Hill & Renko answer a domestic violence call and find a black woman menacing her teenage daughter with a knife while her husband, the girl's stepfather, cowers in a closet. Renko want to haul the woman to jail, but Hill decides to calm everyone down. The guy has apparently had sex at least once with his underage stepdaughter because his wife hasn't fulfilled his voracious sexual appetite. Hill cools everybody down and lays out some new "rules" for the household to follow. The man has confessed to statutory rape, but it gets glossed over like "ho-hum,


Yeah, I watched this just the other day. My chin's still bruised. I don't want them to ban or censor this episode because the scenario is real. The cop reaction is what is actually appalling. When I say the scenario is real, I don't mean as it applies to black families, but as it applies to sad families of any color where this type of sick reasoning can fester.

When I watched that today my brain was trying to wrap around what Hill was condoning. It was, at the time, widely held by the courts that no matter what type of abuse was happening in the family it was better to keep the family together than to split them up. I'm wondering now if that wasn't a political edict that, states couldn't afford to safely house all the children that were in jeopardy so they convinced the public that kids were better off at home and ordered family counseling? Well, that didn't work out so well for some of us.

As to the scene with Goldblume... do you remember the Watts riots? A well dressed white suit that breaks down in a depressed and disenfranchised neighborhood of angry men is right to be frightened. You're fooling yourself if you believe it to be otherwise. There are neighborhoods and areas in America that if you are a stranger, you could be in serious trouble.

Parts of the deep south, parts of the woods in Montana, areas in the Ozarks, areas in Oregon, areas on the Hawaiian Island. innercities like Detroit, Chicago, Hell's Kitchen, Eastside of Kansas City, KS, East St. Louis, IL, Watts, those areas exist and are dangerous if you don't look and act like your neighbors. Literally, if you aren't from the hood you better hope you have AAA, or drive on the rims.

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Bradford:
The show also had subhuman white characters---I don't know why you had to single out only the black and Hispanic ones---that just sounds stereotypical as hell, as they were subhuman simply because they're black and Hispanic. Now tht's racist right there, and being black, yeah, I got a problem with that. My point is (and as someone who grew up watching the show when it was on the air) that there were just as many white criminals on there doing shady s*** (just like it is in real life.)

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I love Belker and Hunter for that matter. The two that offended me was the "whiners" Fay and Ray. Yikes they got on my nerves. I find myself fast forwarding or muting whenever they are on. They add nothing to the show.

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I love Belker and Hunter for that matter.
My wife and I will still use the 'Judas Priest, Frank!' If something offends our sensibilities. And neither of us are named Frank.

And yes, poor Ray. What we call down under, a 'real old woman.'

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LOL, that description fits poor old Ray to a tee. Your note brought a smile to my face.

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You know Varuns-1

I remember you now. I thought I'd read similar remarks from you on at least one other thread and I was right.

You seek out comments in film to be offended by and then recreate an inflammatory subject line "Who was the racist POS". When you already know who it is.

It isn't enlightening, it's tiresome.

I read your opening salvo on the Spiderman page about the term "Indian-giver" and it's origin.

You really need to actually look up the origin of the phrase BEFORE you comment on it. You're completely wrong. I've already deleted once of my comments to you on this page because I had the inclination to be kind and explanatory, but it kept bugging me that your comment was familiar and I was right.

You like stirring the pot on old issues.

Well, have fun with that.

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"Curry breath" is hardly "racist". Except in today's hypersensitive world, where people, such as yourself, go out of their way to be outraged and offended.

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I tip my hat to your reply. Funny how some of the most offended never seem to "hear" themselves in the midst of their complaints.

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Yes, those were very offensive scenes, and I am dredging them up 30-40 years later. Better late than never. Those segments involved East Indians, not Blacks, Jews, Hispanics or Aboriginals. There has never been an apology or acknowledgement of those remarks. And that's what makes them that much more offensive and repulsive. This is a discussion forum, so why not raise it here?

"Indian giver" is not, for your information, a laudatory or neutral term. It is offensive, and moreover, the context in which it was used in the "Spiderman" episode was positively not benign or positive. The "raja" was projected by Peter Parker, to take back a gift he had given to an old lady. So how is that not offensive?

You haven't refuted or countered my observation that *police shows* ( I didn't say "Americans" or even all TV programmes, though some of both are capable of possessing such views!) typecast certain ethnic groups into certain crimes. I've seen too many crime dramas to not notice this.

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Those segments involved East Indians, not Blacks, Jews, Hispanics or Aboriginals. There has never been an apology or acknowledgement of those remarks.


Why should there be? You roam the web and deliberately post opening threads citing how offended your are at "such and such" racist comment here and racist comment there and then cry because people aren't swarming to apologize to you because you are offended.


You haven't refuted or countered my observation that *police shows* ( I didn't say "Americans" or even all TV programmes, though some of both are capable of possessing such views!) typecast certain ethnic groups into certain crimes. I've seen too many crime dramas to not notice this.

Why do you watch them if they offend you so??? You watch them so you can complain and whine about programming that is meant to be gritty. In the case of Hill Street Blue, which started this conversation, the show is set in a gritty inner city where crime is high and white people are the extreme minority. So of course the criminals are going to be mainly minorities, but they all aren't, but you wouldn't know that because you didn't know that Belker uses the terms or insult "blank-breath" indiscriminately. He is a unilateral insulter. But a kind character. No, you watched one scene and then ran crying to this board about what... "curry-breath". You must sleep on cotton balls.

Indian giver" is not, for your information, a laudatory or neutral term. It is offensive, and moreover, the context in which it was used in the "Spiderman" episode was positively not benign or positive. The "raja" was projected by Peter Parker, to take back a gift he had given to an old lady. So how is that not offensive?


I haven't seen this "Spiderman" but I can only guess you only saw a portion and became offended and raced to your computer to let everyone know of the crime in question. Okay, I went back and looked it up. It's 1967 cartoon for God's sake. I'm not even going to bother with your ignorance on this. LOOK UP THE ORIGINS OF THE TERM "INDIAN GIVER"! I don't mean the origins of the insult and mean the origins of the white man's misunderstanding of the Indian's trade customs. And yes, I do mean to shout at you. If you can't look up the history behind a remark to understand it's orgina you have no right to expect an intelligent conversation. Which I suspect you don't want. You just want apologies because you were, yet again, offended by a decades old cartoon.


I'm sorry you are such a sad person.

I'm sorry you have to pick at the words and scenes from decades old TV and film that you find offensive and cry here about not seeing formal apologies for same.
We don't issues reparations for cartoons and bits of cinematic history. You aren't entitled to any in any case.

I'm sorry you don't seem to be able to watch film's that don't insult your sensibilities.

I'm sorry you haven't chosen to watch films that appeal to you and let the rest go.

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I felt offended and insulted by those scenes and remarks. I certainly did not feel uplifted, elevated and enlightened. Should I have been? I'm sure a lot of people of East Indian background or non-whites in general, were insulted and are insulted by those scenes. "Curry breath, speak American here", if some ignorant, illiterate cop said those things now, he would be at least suspended from the force. Hardly anyone would be using the argument, this is a gritty life and job.

Yes, why not let go everything from the past? Hardly a week goes by in North America, where we don't read of some sexual molestation from the past, even from 30-40 years ago. Racial insults can be as, or almost as damaging as sexual molestation, only they are barely acknowledged.

Frankly, it doesn't matter what the origin of a term like "Indian giver" is. Perhaps it is the most loving, kind, thoughtful expression in the history of the universe. What really matters is the context and spirit in which it is used by the mainstream. It is derogatory and negative, and sneering. When Peter Parker spoke to the elderly lady and warned her about the possible "East Indian giver", I assure you he wasn't saying 'That individual is a very kind, thoughtful, cultured, generous and warm person'. He was basically saying the guy is a low life thief, and that with a racial slur.

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I highly doubt the term "East Indian giver" was used. In general, Americans don't call Asian Indians "East Indians". The term Indian giver does not reference Asian Indians, but American Indians. Your "outrage" is misplaced. And too bad that you felt offended and insulted, it's time you put on your big boy pants and grew up.

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You must not have watched the show if you don't know who said it or what the circumstances were. It was Belker and he said it to someone of Indian or Pakistani descent who was being uncooperative. Which episode? I don't know and I don't remember seeing the episode, but that was Belker.

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[deleted]

Lighten up, Francis.

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I sure would take the 80's over the crap we have to deal with today.

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Maybe you don't realize that Bocho purposely created these characters because they represented what was out there at the time. The show wasn't created to say, hey everything that goes on in this show is ok. It's like movies that deal in our history. You don't stop making them because what happened in history was wrong. You want reality, this show showcased reality at that time. And as for Belker, he had "insert term breath" for everyone of every race/culture. He did not discriminate.

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They're just words ,dipshit - lighten up

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