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Why is Charles Haid ('Renko') billed differently to rest of 'HSBl' cast?

posted 13 years ago by SceneByScene
21 replies | jump to latest

Why is Charles Haid billed differently to the rest of the 'HSBlues' cast??

He is billed at the end of the intro-credits by his own name but also the name of his !character! i.e. he is cited in the opening/intro cast-credits as "Charles Haid as Renko". None of the other characters (except 'Joyce Davenport') are billed along with their character's name.

Was he a particularly well-known actor in the US before he appeared in 'HSBlues'? And did this therefore merit Charles Haid being singled out for a different type of billing to the other actors in the large ensemble cast of the series?

I realise why the actress Veronica Hamel ('Joyce Davenport') is cited differently to the rest of the cast - as she is a regular in the series, throughout its c. 6-year run, but as a lawyer is not an actual 'Blue'/police-person.

But I cannot see why Charles Haid/Officer Renko should be billed differently to all the other 'Blues'!!

Any ideas?

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[–] doggonefiction 13 years ago

It was to do with the actors contract. It's not unusual for an actor who has had some previous success (not matter how little) to negotiate special billing in the opening credits. I guess they think it will get them more notice.

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[–] SceneByScene 13 years ago

So what programme was he well-known by being in?

Do you know it was in his contract, or are you assuming so?

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[–] doggonefiction 12 years ago

I'm pretty sure it's standard in an actor's contract if they get special billing at the end. I don't no about Mr Haid's contract.

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[–] DrZaat 12 years ago

I seem to recall that Haid and Stephen Bochco knew each other at Carnegie Mellon University--some of the other cast members went there also. So, even if Haid was not well known from some previous performance, knowing Bochco might have had something to do with his special mention in the credits. Plus, it's possible that he was well known on the stage--which wouldn't be indicated on IMDB.

The other poster was correct, however: billing in movies/tv is a matter of contractual agreement. Even if Haid received his billing in Hill Street due to friendship with Bochco, it would most likely have been stipulated in his contract.

[–] chelseaal 12 years ago

He was the most 'known' when it came out, being in the film, 'Choirboys'. The others, were still 'new and unknown'

[–] myndchanger 12 years ago

He had just co-stared in Altered States, which was getting a lot of attention and went on to win a Golden Globe and was nominated for an AA, so Charles Haid's name was better known than anyone else in the cast. I assume that he had to make a decision whether to pursue a film career or do an unknown tv series. I think he made a gutsy decision.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] bradford-1 12 years ago

Haid and Michael Conrad had both co-starred in DELVECCHIO, a CBS show that lasted one season. A pre-TAXI Judd Hirsch played the title character, an L.A. city detective, Haid, his sometimes-humorous partner and Conrad was their captain. Bochco was the creator, head writer, and a producer, I think. It also had a slamming theme (remember those?) by Billy Goldenberg.

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] HapHazzard 10 years ago

Haid addresses the issue himself in the commentary track for the pilot episode I believe - or one of the episodes he did commentary for anyway.
His character Renko, along with the character of Bobby Hill, were indeed meant to die at the end of the pilot episode, to give the series the punch it needed to make an impact. But as others have said, in test screenings their characters proved very popular. In the meantime after shooting his scenes for the pilot of HSB, he'd accepted a role in another pilot that ended up being not picked up. At this time luckily for him the HSB producers approached him and Michael Warren to come onto the show as regulars for when full shooting of the series began, and as part of the deal that was negotiated, he was given the more prestigious billing.

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[–] smokehill retrievers 11 years ago

Haid had far more acting experience, both movies & TV, than the others, and basically took the initial role (designed to be a one or two-shot thing before he "died" in the line of duty) only as a great favor to Steven Bochco.

When his character proved so popular, he remained in the series -- still primarily as a personal favor to his friend Bochco), so I suspect this was just sweetening the pot for him, to keep him in the series.

Excellent decision, since Renko was a great character in a series full of great characters.

Everyone remembers the great ones here, and probably (like me)still call them by their "Hill Street Name."

Whenever we see James Sikking in an old film (usually as some criminal), we say, "Look, there's Howard Hunter!"

Same for Mick Belker and Renko. I still recall seeing Renko as a minister and screaming out, "Look, it's Renko playing the preacher!"

Truly the hallmark of a spectacular performance in a GREAT series.

[–] jdjd-10 11 years ago

If my memory is correct, in one of the early episodes Renko and Bobby are ambushed inside a building and both were shot multiple times. I remember reading that the original script had Bobby surviving, but Renko dies. However, the Renko character proved very popular and they brought him back.

I always thought he was listed separately in the early episodes because he was just making a guest appearance, and was not intended to be a regular, and it just continued that way for the rest of the run.

[–] jbwphoto1 11 years ago

jdjd-10, don't think I ever thought of that. Just what everyone else mentioned about getting it in your contract, knowing Bocho previously from either school or a previous show. But it makes sense for this one.

[–] doobienick 11 years ago

Actually, BOTH characters were supposed to die in the ambush at the end of the first episode but audience reaction to the pair caused the change.

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] wordsatplaytoday 8 years ago

Because that is what TV was doing at the time for the cast members that were announced last on the TV show.

Watch any show from that era with a multiple cast and chances are you'll see the last member with their real and character name on the screen at the same time.

So they do it to follow tradition. No matter who that last cop actor would have been, they would have included his or her character name.

Any other reason is nothing but idiotic BS speculation.

[–] DrZaat 8 years ago

" No matter who that last cop actor would have been, they would have included his or her character name."

Sorry, but that's just silliness. It matters quite a bit who the cast member is who gets this special billing--almost as much as who gets the top billing. If you look at the people who receive this billing, it's never some Joe Blow. There's always a reason for it. Typically, it's someone who is not in a sufficiently prominent role in the show to receive top billing, but who nevertheless has some importance as an actor. Oftentimes, it's someone who is actually a bigger name than the lead actor, but who has taken a supporting role in the show.

Whatever the case, it's definitely not whoever happens to be listed last. This is not a matter of "speculation." It is a matter of observation, some knowledge of billing in television productions, and a bit of common sense. Your explanation appears to lack all three.

[–] ChessLeveller 8 years ago

This thread raises something I have often wondered about in TV introductory credit sequences, not just Hill St Blues but TV shows in general, or certainly American TV shows (speaking as a Brit). It is the same with many shows, e.g. "Seinfeld" where we have "Jason Alexander as George" or in "Everybody Loves Raymond" where we have "Peter Boyle as Frank". I don't think any of the respondents have so far completely answered the question. It is particularly noticeable in HSB because of the credits being accompanied by the freeze frames making you really stop and look. I can see no particular reason why those two alone (Charles Haid and Veronica Hamel) should get the character name added. And even there it is slightly different because we have surname only with "Renko", but full name "Joyce Davenport" for Hamel. Why? It may be in their contracts but then why isn't it in everyone's contract? Nor does it seem to relate strictly to status because some other cast members were surely more famous or better-known to the viewing public at that time, e.g. Jim Sikking.

This leads me on to some slightly broader questions about TV credits. It is interesting that in US shows, unlike in British shows, the leading cast members appear in the front credits but not the end credits, so that, unless as per Haid and Hamel they get character-checked, one does not know the names of the characters they play (except by watching the show of course but even then it may take a long time to get familiar with all the role names).

And what dictates the order in which the actors appear in the credits? Again, it doesn't seem to relate strictly to status because for example Michael Conrad and Michael Warren appear as second and third billing after Daniel J Travanti, but well ahead of others such as Sikking and Hamel who were perhaps bigger stars? I should point out here that I am referring to the first season, not having got round yet to watching subsequent seasons where things may have changed a little. Nor does it seem to be related to character centrality or importance within the show because with an ensemble cast it is hard to produce a rank order, except maybe for Travanti who is primus inter pares.

Answers please!

[–] wordsatplaytoday 7 years ago

You are the one without any common sense.

I am not in any way suggesting that they just pull the names out of a hat for the order of cast listing.

All I am doing is suggesting that at the time of the bygone era of TV themes and longer intros the very last cast member mentioned usually had both their screen and character name listed.

Watch Taxi and you will see that it is listed as "Andy Kaufman as Latka Gravis" as the last name mentioned.
Andy was an unknown, as well as all the other actors, when Taxi started.
I dunno why they listed him last. Probably because he didn't have as many lines as the other cast members.
He would just say a few funny lines in that accent and that was it.
Sometimes he did have a story about him but not as often as the others.

Whatever the case, it's definitely not whoever happens to be listed last.

Yeah, it is.
Whoever they had selected to be listed last, they would have put up his/her screen and character name.
What about that don't you get?

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Thanx!

[–] DrZaat 7 years ago

"You are the one without any common sense."

Pardon me. Don't you remember writing this?

"No matter who that last cop actor would have been, they would have included his or her character name."

"No matter who" certainly makes it sound as if you mean that the last-credited actor is simply random.

Furthermore, "unknown" to you and I is not necessarily "unknown" to those in the business. As for Andy Kaufman, he had already made a name for himself on Saturday Night Live for three years before Taxi premiered. Someone knew him well enough for him to be deemed worthy of that last place in the credits. It was not merely an accident.

As for Charles Haid, whatever he may have done prior to Hill Street, he also was a classmate of Bochco's at Carnegie Mellon University [then Carnegie Tech]. It's not impossible that Haid received the final listing due to his personal relationship with Bochco.

Whatever the case, that spot--and indeed the order of the entire cast list--is not random, but reflects a mix of several things: general status in the industry, relative importance in the show, and relationship to the show runners. These factors--and perhaps others of which I am unaware--determine the credit order.

[–] WarrenPeace (2267) a month ago

You are full of shit.
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