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Shogun Assassin NOT so related to Kill Bill

posted 19 years ago by flamingyouth76
20 replies | jump to latest

OK, for all of you out there that really want to know the truth, Kill Bill Volumes 1 and 2 have much more relation to the Lady Snowblood films of the early 70's than to Shogun Assassin--especially the first Lady Snowblood film. Tarantino even used the Lady Snowblood theme song for Kill Bill.

For those of you who haven't heard of Lady Snowblood, the story is fairly simple: a pregnant lady gives birth to a "daughter of vengeance" so the daughter can walk the earth as a "demon" and exact revenge upon those who killed her family, raped her, etc. Sound familiar??

Tarantino even uses the "snow theme" from Lady Snowblood in the climactic fight between Lisa Ling and Uma Thurman. I'm not complaining--Tarantino does a great deal of "stealing" for his films. I like Tarantino and his films, but for the most part they are rehashes of old movies he saw while growing up in LA watching the Z-channel and working at a video store. I think it's great that by him making these big, splashy Hollywood features it forces the focus on some of the original source material like Lone Wolf, Lady Snowblood, City on Fire (source material for Reservoir Dogs"), etc.

[–] openstorage 18 years ago

Well said :-)

I love all Tarantino's pre Kill Bill directorial work. But I detest Kill Bill.
He won't be making anymore great films, I think he's lost his touch.

[–] flamingyouth76 18 years ago

Well, I enjoyed Kill Bill just because it was fun to look for all the old 70's actors and homages (or copies, if you like). I agree it wasn't a spectacular film. Besides, it looks like he's moving into producing now, with "Hero" out and now a new film (can't remember the title), but the poster says, "Quentin Tarantino Presents" on it.

[–] himdol666 18 years ago

The movie flamingyouth76 is refering to is Hostel, which has NOTHING to do what-so-ever with Tarentino, who by the by is an excellent director.Seems to me that SOME PEOPLE didnt watch Kill Bill vol.2 which was an EXCELLENT film & so was the 1st one. Anyways, hostel: it's sadistic, it's brutal,it's TORTURE made public & made silver screen. I might rent it,but NOT to be watched on the big screen,unless u bring a puke-bag

[–] flamingyouth76 18 years ago

Again, I must respectully disagree with you. Tarantino was executive producer on "Hostel". I think that means he DOES MOST DEFINITELY have something to do with the film! Agreed, it isn't as intimate as director, but certainly he had his fingers in the pie.

[–] Aeacus 18 years ago

executive producer doesn't mean anything. they'll give executive producer credit to anyone. all it means in this case is that he "discovered" it and brought it to a theater near you.

[–] misskpunk 18 years ago

"Tarantino does a great deal of "stealing" for his films. I like Tarantino and his films, but for the most part they are rehashes of old movies he saw while growing up in LA watching the Z-channel and working at a video store."

Have you ever heard of post-modernism? See, it's this whole movement in cinema of films about films, films that cannibalize films, films that are a combination of genres, films that borrow heavily from other films to create a whole new brand of cinema.

Get it?

btw, i think you mean lucy liu. not lisa ling. for someone who knows so much about film you seem pretty confused.

[–] flamingyouth76 18 years ago

LOL. Of course, you are right. Sorry about the whole Lisa Ling thing. Geez, how could I have possibly made that mistake...LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

btw, the insult at the end of your post didn't sting too badly. I don't know why you are so pissy...I didn't claim to know everything about film, but apparently you do. Postmodernism--sheesh! Do you actually enjoy anything you watch or are you too busy farting around with cool words to throw out when you post? And you must be the ultimate Tarantino fan. I really raised your hackles with my comments. I like Tarantino a great deal. I wasn't criticizing him, just making an observation.

Your name fits your personality...go punk someone else--you are wasting my time!

[–] juaquino 18 years ago

yes the postmodern mannerism movement... where'd you hear that? I hearn in a multimedia art class I took.

[–] mrblonde79 18 years ago

Agreed. To put it simple, Tarantino wouldn't have a career if it weren't for films like Shogun Assassin, Lady Snowblood, The Street Fighter, etc. Tarantino is a great director-- he's basically just a super fanatical fanboy (not that there's anything wrong with that) & it shows in his films.

[–] Holodeck 18 years ago

Lucy Liu and Lisa Ling look nothing alike, what caused you to confuse them?
Lucy Liu plays O Ren Ishii, or Cottonmouth, Lisa Ling is a twinkie, Lucy Liu is a credit to her heritage

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] osrulez 18 years ago

"Besides, it looks like he's moving into producing now, with "Hero" out"

Oh really, I can hang you for this quote. Repeat after me: Hero has NOTHING to do with Tarantino. Again. Hero has NOTHING to do with Tarantino.

Hero is one of the best martial arts movies ever. Also, it's the best movie ever if you just look at the images. The camerawork is perfect, de lightning, collors and sound are beautiful. The only thing Tarantino(who himself never Directed a 'beautiful film) did was put his name on the American Re-Release poster.

One more time: Hero has NOTHING to do with Tarantino.

Ps. Sorry for my bad English.

[–] flamingyouth76 18 years ago

Hang away, doof, but the point I make is true. I UNDERSTAND that Tarantino had nothing to do with "Hero" except allow the movie company to use his name, and I'm not going to argue with you about "beautiful films" because I just don't care about you or your opinion. In point of fact, your ramblings about "Hero" being "beautiful" are pointless and irrelevant to any comment I made.

The point I was making is simple: Tarantino spent quite a while making "Kill Bill" and it didn't do the business Miramax was hoping. I'm sure Tarantino is exhausted from making the flick. However, it takes time to negotiate to have your name put on a picture, even if it's only "__________ presents". Plus, as I said in my original post, he was also producing "Hostel". With the last two releases using Tarantino's name being a re-release and a new movie he's producing, it is easy to assume that maybe he's taking a (well-deserved) break from directing to pursue other interests until he finds--or is able to write--material for his next movie.

So, repeat after me: respond to the POST...respond to the POST...stay on TOPIC

P.S. P.S. is spelled "P.S." not Ps.

[–] flamingyouth76 18 years ago

I must respectfully disagree with you. I offer one very significant scene as proof: if you watch "Lady Snowblood" and then watch the climactic battle in "KB Part 1", I think you must agree that the scene in "KB" was lifted from "Lady Snowblood". Period. No discussion. If that ain't stealing, we must be operating with different definitions.

I went back to re-read my original post. NOWHERE do I say he "steals whole films."

I SAY THIS NOT TO BASH TARANTINO--I ENJOY HIS FILMS. I AM NOT TRYING TO CRITICIZE HIM. I RECOGNIZE WHY HE MAKES THE FILMS HE DOES AND I RESPECT HIS ENCYCLOPEDIC KNOWLEDGE OF FILM HISTORY.

Why does everyone get so defensive when more than one opinion is being presented? I cannot state or emphasize any more clearly: I am NOT trying to criticize Tarantino or anyone who likes him. In fact, I like his films--seen every one of them and will continue to do so.

So lighten up.

[–] manystyles 18 years ago

Reservoir Dogs is a nearly shot for shot copy in some places of Chow Yun Fat's City on Fire.

In fact, the only Tarantino movie that uses original stuff is for the most part Jackie Brown, and he rips that from blaxpolitaion movies. (foxy B.,Shaft,big bad mamma etc.)

Know before you go.

Tarantino is a super fanboy. The scene in Swinger's where the steal the scene at the breakfast table in Res. Dog's is a riff on just that, that Trantino steals and now everybody steals from everybody else.

Genius? I really don't think he's a cinematic genius. He recognizes what looks cool. Close ups of characters hands as the load/pull guns? a Hong Kong staple since John Woo busted on the scene. Long, uninterupred shots of characters walking? maybe slow mo? Also John Woo.

Around 1990 or so, American action film directors saw that HK cinema was making gunfights look like swordfights of older samurai movies, and that it worked. and worked well. The scenes in The Killer's climax is a good example of this idea. Samurai and sidekick take down 5000 people. Replace 2 samurai swords with 2 guns and poof! instant hit! The US filmmakers took notice. Now, you can't get through a flick without seeing someone take out a pair of matching pistols and shoot it out.

Tarantino is a biter, just like everyone else, he just knows how to do it right. So I guess, therein lies his talent.

[–] olsonholme 18 years ago

"Reservoir Dogs is fantastic because of its clever script and great performances, none of which were stolen."

I agree that Reservoir Dogs is a great movie, but it is not a totaly original film. Tarantino himself has admitted to borrow themes and plotlines from Ringo Lam`s "Long hu feng yun" AKA "City Of Fire" from 1987. The title for the film comes from a combination of two other movies. Tarantino, not very good at speaking French, always referred to _Au revoir les enfants (1987)_ simply as "that Reservoir movie". He also is a big Sam Peckinpah fan, and likes his film Straw Dogs (1971). So he combined the two titles to get "Reservoir Dogs". The black suit , white shirt and black tie outfit was inspired by the movie "A better tomrorrow 2".

[–] BuckarooRoboBanzai 18 years ago

When I think about Kill Bill i actually think that Lucy Liu is Lady Snowblood, i mean the similarities are immense! She even wear the same clothes! Also, you know Go-Go in Kill Bill is the actress who played her in Battle Royale?

[–] swamp__fox 18 years ago

-OK, for all of you out there that really want to know the truth, Kill Bill Volumes 1 and 2 have much more relation to the Lady Snowblood films of the early 70's than to Shogun Assassin--especially the first Lady Snowblood film-

Your heart is in the right place but this isn't the complete truth. First off KIll Bill vol. 1 has Lady Snowblood influences. B/c O-Ren is based off of Lady Snowblood, yes. And as you say the theme song. O-Ren isn't even in Vol.2. Now LW&C/Shogun Assassian have influences in both movies. Examples being the obvious excessive blood gushing scenes and the body limbs that are easily cut off in vol. 1. And in vol.2 two instead of the whole father-son relationship we now have a mother daughter-relationship. So both movies play a role in the two volumes but to say that Lady Snowblood had more influence over LW&C is just plain silly.

By the way, Tarantino just put his name on Hero so it would sell to the America audiences. He did the same thing when Iron Monkey came to American audiences. And Hero is on my top ten list for best martial arts movies for the record.

[–] ultimatenexus 10 years ago

I acknowledge that Tarantino 'borrows' from a LOT of films but he's still one of my favourite writer/directors, and like you said, his films have gotten a lot of people to watch the films he's referencing. I'm one of those people; so far I've seen Lady Snowblood and The Streetfighter trilogy, along with several John Woo films and two Ringo Lam films (City on Fire and Full Contact), and I can't wait to see more of the films that inspired him. Shogun Assassion and Lone Wolf and Cub are all on my watchlist. Can't wait to find the opportunity to see those. And Bruce Lee's films. And more Sonny Chiba films.
I am also anxious to see an Akira Kurosawa film (especially Ran, Seven Samurai and his Yojimbo/Sanjuro films).

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