MovieChat Forums > The Shining (1980) Discussion > Read the book seen the film.. Some thoug...

Read the book seen the film.. Some thoughts


I have read the book twice now and seen the movie twice. Having a hard time deciding which i like better. they were both very good, yet 2 very different pieces of work. Maybe i should not be comparing at all but here goes anyway.

I much prefer the maze to the hedge aninmals. I dont think that would have worked very well on film i also think it would have been better in the book.

I didn't like Tony in the movie. In the book Danny goes off to lala land and is shown visions of the past and potential future by tony. This is much better than some person taking over his mouth and putting on a croakey voice. Also Redrum in the movie came in way to late and there was not enough emphasis on it. I much preferred Danny always on the search for what it is.

Danny and hallorans relationship was boring almost non existent in the movie. In the novel you can really feel the connection they have with their shining powers. You really feel Halloran wants to come and save him no matter what.

The sisters were a fantastic addition to the movie. Kubrick did a great job adding them.

The noisy and forever running elevator in the novel would have made a great addition to the movie instead of the blood. I didnt see the point of it at all. The elevator added a great layer of tension to the book.

The lack of the boiler in the movie is good. I have trouble buying that a multi million dollar business has some crappy old boiler that needs the pressure released multiple times a day to avoid an explosion. It would have been sorted out years ago. Maybe it could have been added to the movie more but not used as a central plot device

The movie needed a bit more of the noises of ballroom and its guests randomly in the movie. It needed characters walking into the elevator and seeing confetti. Seeing balloons more randomly in the hallway. The book a
Handled that part better imo.

Room 217/237. I cant decide they were both good and quite similar in the way it was done.

Jacks alcohol problem. You can barely feel its there in the movie. The struggle he is going through is very apparent in the novel and makes his descent into madness more effective.

Jack and Ullman. In the novel there is an awful lot of tension between them. In the movie they seem to get along well. The novel was better in this regard. Ullman was unlikable and only cared about the hotel. Much better character development.

Jack and his madness. I felt he was already on the edge in both before getting to the hotel. But more so in the movie. His descent was too quick and was obvious it would happen. In the book it was more subtle. Slowly he went more and more crazy. This would probably be as there is more time in the book. And i suppose they were there for one month before we see anything in the movie. Perhaps i am being unfair.

The hotel. In the book there is a much more absolute presense of evil in the hotel. The hotel takes jack and manipulates him much more effectively. In the movie it seemed it was going to happen to Jack whether he was at the hotel or not.

Finally the ending. Much better in the movie more realistic. I did not enjoy the sappy ending of the book. Seeing him freeze to death in the snow and seeing the picture on the wall from the 20's was great

All my opinion the hardcore fans may hate on me for it but that is okay!

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Sounds to me like you prefer the book.


I like the movie better, I think it's scarier, more interesting and just better written. I do wish though that Dick had survived his attack in the movie, as he does in the book.

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Yes, great points and I agree with you. I just watched the movie (DVD) again this past weekend.

I have read EVERTHING King has written multiple times over the years. I'm well aware that his books have not always adapted to the screen very well.

I liked the movie in it's own context. But held up against the book, I was disappointed the first time I saw the movie.

My biggest complaint is the same as Kings.

Jack Nicholson was wrong for the part. He was creepy from the first scene. I would have liked to see any other actor portray that slow, sad, unavoidable descent into madness much like the Jack in the book.

I didn't like the Jack Torrence in the movie; So from the start I didn't care what happened to him.

I didn't like the "Wendy" in the movie either. She was just a timid screamer. I would have gone crazy too if I had to live with her. No wonder Torrence was a drinker. I liked the way the "Wendy" in the book was strong willed but sheltered and clueless in the way the real world worked.

Danny, in the book, was smart and quick to catch on to things. The movie Danny was just annoying.


Guess she didn't like the cornbread either.

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The film is Danny's story. Danny's story is a generational one...you King apologists are simply looking for a hero where there isn't one.



Buy The Ticket, Take The Ride

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I also get the idea that Kubrick never wanted to make Jack into the hero. Perhaps the Kubrick+King late night conversations made Stanley change his mind about what his film could be about. Perhaps King was drunk and kept raving on about "Jack's misunderstood!" so much, that Kubrick flushed the whole novel's sympathetic angle?

I also wonder about the entire "wave of horror that swept across America" concept coming from Kubrick exclusively, who left the U.S. and became a permanent British citizen. That his reasoning for making the film was to cloak what he really wanted to say subliminally, to American audiences, in particular.

How we overlook what was perpetrated in our past history.
Ullman's little nervous laugh before telling Jack the Charles Grady incident.
It's embarrassing to talk about - even though four people died.

The hedge maze is magnificent because it's a claustrophobic space. Even as an adult, it is disturbing to lose your sense of control - you must do whatever the maze dictates. You have been reduced to a child, following orders until you can escape. And a child traps an adult in the frozen maze.

If King said that he absolutely loved Jack Nicholson in this film, this would be an entirely different message board. People automatically agree with the author, disavowing how numerous classic films also did the same thing - and for some preposterous reason, it's always justified with Stephen King.

Jack was always evil. He just fooled everyone better in King's novel, and Kubrick wanted to do the opposite: to expose the evils of mankind/Jack.

THE SHINING is a sociological horror film that is difficult to accept.
The Shining novel, in hindsight, becomes even more tedious after you watch the miniseries. It's a scary ghost story - but not a story of the ghosts that mankind actually creates in his neverending quest to gain foreign lands.
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Kubrick's film - will always be the definitive version of The Shining.

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The film is the Overlook Hotel's story.
Danny and his parents are pawns.

Guess she didn't like the cornbread either.

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Or maybe we just think the book was better, because it was.

Book = intense, thoughtful and well-rounded, movie = tries too hard then pussies out, just dumb.


Star Wars is like pizza, even when it's bad it's still pretty good.

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Jack Nicholson was wrong for the part. He was creepy from the first scene. I would have liked to see any other actor portray that slow, sad, unavoidable descent into madness much like the Jack in the book.


The part is what was written in the screenplay, not the book.

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Yes agreed; But Nicholson is a fantastic actor with a strong personality.

It's just my view that casting turned the character of Jack Torrence into Jack Nicholson; Not the other way around.

If there were to be a remake, in my "opinion" Edward Norton, Bradley Cooper, Phil Giamatti or (wait for it)...someone like the late Robin Williams would be a better Jack.

Jack Torrence was a pathetic, struggling, alcoholic, writer who is accused of child abuse and takes the job hoping to get a second chance. The evil within the hotel slowly drives Torrence insane.

The way Nicholson behaved from the first scene; he looks like he brought the evil with him.

just don't think he fits the character.

Guess she didn't like the cornbread either.

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But again you seem to be looking at Jack through the prism of the book. I agree Nicholson wasn't right for THAT character, but he was right for KUBRICK'S character.

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The way Nicholson behaved from the first scene; he looks like he brought the evil with him.

Yes he does, and I'm pretty sure that is exactly what Kubrick intended.

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Yes he does, and I'm pretty sure that is exactly what Kubrick intended.


and that's one of the many reasons why "Kubrick's" version sucks arse.


Star Wars is like pizza, even when it's bad it's still pretty good.

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Maybe you think that - but "Kubrick's" (WTF?) film is consistently always in the top 10 of most "best horror films" lists. If not in the top five.

Everyone has an opinion.
Until they say a classic horror film "sucks arse," that is.
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There is no "we." Only you.
And your one opinion.

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Kubrick's film - will always be the definitive version of The Shining.

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Book = intense, thoughtful and well-rounded, movie = tries too hard then pussies out, just dumb.

Please do better, then. King obviously couldn't, with his own minischitter.
So much for pussies...

Novel = with the most ridiculous ending of any horror novel ever written.
One person dies. Because they committed suicide after miraculously realizing that killing their wife and son was BAD.

Name the last psychopath that actually killed himself to save his victims.
This might take awhile...

At least Kubrick's film had ONE actual violent murder.
And - no Daddymartyrs, either!
Hurray!

King: 0
Kubrick: 2

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Kubrick's film - will always be the definitive version of The Shining.

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"Kubrick's film - will always be the definitive version of The Shining."


Completely agree!!

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Kubrick's film - will always be the definitive version of The Shining.


LOL how can you possibly think this? That's like saying Cake's version of "I Will Survive" is the definitive version of the song, you may like it better but that simply cannot be true. It's not his story, it's someone else's story which he took and butchered, and his fanboys like you try and make it sound like the best *beep* thing ever made. He took an intense and riveting story and turned it into some kind of cheesy arthouse crap with a little added shock value.

The book will always be the definitive version because that's the way the story was intended, "Kubrick's" version will always be *beep*


Star Wars is like pizza, even when it's bad it's still pretty good.

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LOL how can you possibly think this? That's like saying Cake's version of "I Will Survive" is the definitive version of the song, you may like it better but that simply cannot be true. It's not his story, it's someone else's story which he took and butchered, and his fanboys like you try and make it sound like the best *beep* thing ever made. He took an intense and riveting story and turned it into some kind of cheesy arthouse crap with a little added shock value.

The book will always be the definitive version because that's the way the story was intended, "Kubrick's" version will always be *beep*

Intense and riveting story = a horror novel where not one single character was killed. At least Kubrick added an actual murder to his horror film, not a daddysuicide.

ROTFLMFAO. Yes, while the King fangirls like you weep for their wounded master. HOW COULD SOMEONE RUIN HIS PRECIOUS NOVEL?!?

King should be happy even today that Kubrick chose any of his works for a film.
But he still isn't.
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THE SHiNiNG

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I'm a BIG King fan. Loved most of his books, although a few were disappointing.

My problem with the film 'The Shining' is that every character was miscast by the choice of actors to play the parts and their interpretation of their roles---possibly also the direction. I never watch this film when it comes on because the crappy portrayals make me grind my teeth.

I can't say who I would have cast at the time, because I don't know who was available then. Although, I would have liked Ossie Davis as Halloran. He looked more the part and didn't "shuck n' jive" his way through his career as did Carruthers.

_______________________________________
ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED??!!

Maximus Decimus Meridius

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Time has been kind to THE SHINING, regardless of what you may read here. Many now see it as a great film with excellent characterizations - NOT as a word-for-word exact reproduction of a novel that is still demanded by King sycophants.

How did I also read the novel - and loved the film MUCH more?
Nitpicking.
"Oh Wendy acted exactly like a traumatized wife of a drunk would act, not like the blonde Ripley-type from the novel! I demand authenticity!"

No, you demand illogical chracters that were completely ludicrous to begin with. Jack was a horribly dangerous father, who physically attacked his own very young son. Stop listening to the alcoholic who wrote a book that was too long.

And I never imagined anyone being as godawful as Danny was in the miniseries. King must do some really good substances to have allowed that to happen.

My problem with THE SHINING is those who wouldn't know a great horror film if it hit King right in the ass. You were all richly rewarded years ago with the miniseries. Now please, shut the **** up.
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Kubrick's film - will always be the definitive version of The Shining.

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Kubrick changed very little in the story. It is all just transformed and reinterpreted.

1) The Hedge animals were in the film. You will see them in pictures, books, tv shows and Danny's toys. Some of them move around on their own and appear in different parts of the hotel.

2) Having a ghostly teenager visiting little Danny would have been confusing and ridiculous. The proof of it is in the mini-series. By keeping it vague, having it possibly be an imaginary friend was a stroke of genius. And the finger idea wasn't Kubrick's that was all little Danny Lloyd's improvisation. So authentic childhood behavior of the unexplainable straight from a child source. How can that be less believable?

3) Danny and Halloran chatting like buddies through ESP would have been downright silly. Besides what an intrusion of privacy for both of them. We saw enough of the two to know that Halloran was frightened about Danny's presence in the hotel before he left for the winter. We know that Danny was a little, untrusting of Halloran's concern for him (believable for a child who has been abused by his father). He only contacted Halloran when he felt he had no ability to stop Jack. That makes the vision scene powerful.

4) The Boiler was in the film. It just didn't explode, Jack did. Instead of a big action set piece, Kubrick turned it into a psychological metaphor.

At this point, I can't see how King could complain that Kubrick changed his story. He absolutely did not. He just changed the center of it from outright supernatural to the place in between fantasy and reality.

5) Jack was normal in the beginning. As normal as a dry drunk attempting to go straight can be. A full account of 30 days of watching Jack longing for a drink and being afraid of going into the boiler room alone (because he thinks he sees weird things) would have been BORING. Just as it was in the mini-series. Plus there isn't a lot of time to convey this in a 2 hour film. So Kubrick just flashes the title 1 Month Later and we cut to Jack still suffering from alcohol withdrawal and developing cabin fever.

6) Yes, the ending was better than the novel but still the same message. Jack wanted his past or any past that didn't force him to face himself and his choices. So he was frozen in time, as it were.

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Jack Torrance was a pathetic, struggling, alcoholic writer who is accused of child abuse and takes the job hoping to get a second chance. The evil within the hotel slowly drives Torrance insane.

King is still fooling you.
If Jack Torrance is merely "accused of child abuse" after actually breaking Danny's arm, AND beating up George Hatfield for slashing Jack's tires, then when is Jack ever actually convicted for heinous acts he's already done? And why is this Jack's only remaining chance for a new job? Won't anybody hire him? He has to rely on old drinking buddies to find any work?

How many chances does a violent drunk get, before he actually kills a child, or teenager?
People give Jack's dangerous anger this miraculous berth because - the author was also an alcoholic?
King used sympathy to mask the fact that Jack physically attacked two kids, and one was his son?
I blindly believe everything the author always tells me?

Wendy Torrance was stupid to ever trust this man again, along with anyone who thinks Jack deserved another chance. Why? He did not. He already had two strikes against him, in a sense; Wendy gave him his third strike with the baseball bat on the stairs.

And entirely too damned late.
She should have killed him then.
And after getting his third strike, THAT'S when he goes completely nuts.
Oh I forgot, he was swinging an axe inside of the Beetle while driving to The Overlook Hotel.
Already too "crazy," right?

Wrong.

I think Halloran was killed because die-hard King novel fans wanted to see Wendy get it - and they never got their chance. Someone had to save Danny. The weak woman character, who couldn't do anything right - remember?
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Kubrick's film - will always be the definitive version of The Shining.

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Reply to kaskait: ^This^ A thousand times THIS! Ditto everything you said! So great to finally see someone else say what I've been saying for years!
Oh, and Kubrick also took mere random thoughts from the novel and turned them into character dialogue. My favorite example:
"What would you have me do, Wendy, shovel out driveways?" That is taken straight from the novel, but made into dialogue in the film.

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"What would you have me do, Wendy, shovel out driveways?" That is taken straight from the novel, but made into dialogue in the film.


Cool. I haven't read the book in a long time. So I can't pinpoint nods to the book.

There are a lot of film analysis that agree that Kubrick turned his film into a mirror image of the book. So what is right side up in the book is left side down in the film. In the film we are on the left side, Widdershins, dream land territory of King's book.

I think Kubrick added another layer to the mirror, he is actually including a version of Jack's novel. All of this is Jack's portrayal of the Grady murders.

And inside this labyrinth in a labyrinth is a real minotaur. There is a real ghost or a demon inside the hotel. And it gets Jack to live out his most violent fantasies.

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I read the novel. The film is better as a study in surrealism.

When books gets adapted there is no law that says the film has to recreate everything that was in the book. That's the easy way out.
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THE SHiNiNG

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I agree with much of your post, and had a thought to offer. In thinking about the movie----I almost think that the hotel "spirits" knew Jack would be an easy target because of his already present issues. I hope I'm making sense! I may be way off but anger is often covering up a deep hurt. Chronic anger can weaken you and be a wound all its own. A vulnerability that can easily be manipulated. I haven't read the book in years so I forget much of King's original description of Jack, but regardless, many people can see through the outward anger---so---if there IS a spirit world, I would think those spirits could see that void as well. And in this case, evil spirits looking to consume someone to carry out some acts and relive long ago events...they would definitely look at someone like that, I would think!

Similar to manipulative living people. Those types LOOK for those who have some sort of void (and hence that vulnerability) that open wound....and then attach themselves to people like that. Manipulation takes a resolve and a coldness....but they don't seek out the strong people!

Again, just a thought I had reading your post.

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