MovieChat Forums > Lion of the Desert (1980) Discussion > Between Umar Mukhtar + Saddam Hussein

Between Umar Mukhtar + Saddam Hussein


Both of them were hanged. Which one do u prefer and salute as a hero of muslim?

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[deleted]

I find this question very silly. Saddam was a sick and ruthless mass murderer. Omar Al-Mukhtar was a hero who stood up against an occupying fascist regime that had forced his people int concentration camps. Besides, Saddam was never considered as a symbol of islam by anyone.

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I especially logged in to answer your post Omer Mukhtar vs saddam let me tell you there is no comparison...
since 9/11 the definition of terrorism and freedom fighters and Muslims got mixed...
a freedom fighter is the one who is fighting against the foreign occupation of his land...
A terrorist is the one who kill innocent people for his own or his groups agenda...
A Muslim is the one who believes There is only one God and Muhammad is his prophet.
Now there are over 1 billion Muslim around the globe and there are many terrorist organizations as well some or Muslims and some are non Muslims.
just because some people of a community goes on wrong path does not mean all of 1 billion people are wrong or say terrorist.
Now on your topic Omer Mukhtar was the hero of not only Muslim world but the whole world as his cause was great that the freedom is every body's right. where as two men Saddam and Osama will always be remember as traitors and Villains in not only Muslim world but the whole world, Saddam fought meaningless fight with Iran hence Killed innocent Muslims and human beings. Ossama was a star freedom fighter who fought the war of Afghanistan against foreign rule backed by America. but after the war he went on to go on his own agenda or the agenda of his group he killed innocent people in America as a result America attacked Afghanistan and in the war so many innocent civilian died and who was the main man responsible for it Osama.
so it is wrong to compare Sadam and Omer Mukhtaar as Sdam did nothing for his nation but brought misery upon them. and it also wrong to mix the definitions of Muslim, Freedom fighter and a terrorist.

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saddam... because the way he was killed inspired more people.

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Saddam Hussein never was a "hero" for Muslims. Just because he was hanged doesn't make him a hero.

And please stop linking Islam to everything! I am a Muslim and I don't like the sentence you wrote. It indicates that Muslims will consider Saddam a hero, regardless of what he did, just because he was Muslim and that he was hanged by the occupation.

Please, choose your words carefully next time, so as not to hurt other people's feelings.

----------
"Why must fireflies die so young?"
- Setsuko, Grave of the Fireflies

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I don't think any rational individual would consider saddam a hero based on the way he was hanged.

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[deleted]

A great response from an uncivilized person.

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[deleted]

So just because "a few" Muslims acted in an uncivilized manner, you came to the conclusion that I will act the same because I was offended by the original poster's comments and I am a Muslim. This is purely racist and "uncivilized". Why don't you put me in Guantanamo Bay or Abu Gharib to protect the world from my evils?!

You started it, remember that. I was expressing my opinion to the original poster, and then you came and tossed in this racist remark about starting a riot. Grow up!

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[deleted]

And who exactly is pushing you around? Muslims?!

I am not calling you a racist for the fun of it! It is just that I find no relation between my original reply to the original poster and your purely racist remark that followed, other than it is a racist remark from a racist person, which is quite strange considering your views and replies on this movie board.

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[deleted]

So what does that have to do with the topic under discussion? Were you so fed up with Muslims to the extent that you exploded in the first Muslim you saw?! And what's so irritating about a group of Imams suing a flight company? People in the US sue each other all the time, right?

You don't get the full picture, do you? The Imams wanted to pray. The passengers thought they were doing a "terrorist" thing. And so it goes. Now the Imams wanted compensation, isn't this their right? Don't you believe in freedom? It's really ironic how you think. You only think about your freedom. Can't you drink alcohol in an airport? Yes, you can. So why can't I pray. If praying is "irritating" you, alcohol is "irritating" me.

And what's so irritating about foot baths? Muslims wash their feet during cleaning up for praying. Why does that make you irritated? Or are you irritated by the "special treatment" given to Muslims? And why bother with the separation of the church and state in Islam? We don't have churches, as a concept. We do pray in mosques, but every Muslim has his "church", as a concept, inside his heart. You are in direct link with God and you don't need an "external" link to do it. So how can you separate this from your life?

Grow up Mr. Racist and stop being bothered with others as long as they don't bother you.

And I really don't find any of this relevant to the OP's topic, other than that you ARE a RACIST who is FED UP with Muslims, for no reason, other than that they are Muslims.

Peace.

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[deleted]

- Listen: YOU can PRAY ALL YOU WANT in a MOSQUE! Like it or NOT, this is a CHRISTIAN NATION, and yet even CHRISTIANS are not allowed to PRAY in the public schools, or in most other public places, anymore! REST ASSURED- YOU are NOT being "singled out" for mis-treastment...

I know it's six years after the fact, but when I read that misinformed statement, I had to reply.

I dislike race-baiting minorities as much as you do. I believe political correctness is a form of passive-aggressive bullying by these people and their enabling weak-kneed, white-guilt-ridden allies. The statement, "Please, choose your words carefully next time, so as not to hurt other people's feelings" from Goodfella_no4 was contemptible.

Equally contemptible are teapublican types like you who prop up the lie that the United States is a Christian nation and should be run by Christians for Christians. This is an outrageously arrogant, bullying, and spiteful attitude in a country filled with atheists, agnostics, Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists, and so on and so forth. This is not to mention the hundreds of variations of Christian there are in our country.

Let me explain what you and those like you want, because students still have the right to pray privately in school. What you all are pushing for is a return to the reality of American public schools prior to 1962: faculty-led and mandated prayer, and to hell with those who won't obey your Lord's will.

The biggest opponents of this, from the 1850s to 1962, have in fact been Catholics because public school students were being all but beaten over the head with the King James Bible and blatantly anti-Catholic messages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_prayer). This is why we still see so many private Catholic schools in the country; America in your good old days was violently discriminatory toward that particular brand of Christian, let alone members of other religious groups.

I find your woe-is-me attitude about the absence of organized school prayer disgusting and insulting. I'm physically sick of American Christians like you acting like persecuted innocents because you don't get to bully and browbeat people with your faith like you did fifty years ago. And that's why I found it necessary to respond to your ignorant six-year-old comment. And I'll leave you with this quotation from the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli establishing relations between the United States and the Islamic province of Tripolitania:

...the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion...

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli)

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and burrel bigiedfish you both are a villan geez i hope no one say any thing if do say it on myspace i really like to trouble with u both

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[deleted]

"I am not calling you a racist for the fun of it!"

In what way is he being racist? Muslims are not a race, they are a religion. He is being, if anything, somewhat sectarian.

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nightxwingjedi,

Why are you calling a moron? Did you even read my post? It seems to me that we have similar views, but for some reason, you called me a moron. I do agree that Burrell dale is a moron though.

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right on man tear that racist idiot a new one!

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Burrell Dale is an utter moron.

The whole world has also recently seen quite a few American leaders that don't seem to know how to act "civilized"...

You're so myopic, it would be amusing if you also weren't so poorly educated, simpleton.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Oh the irony.
I guess you didn't watch the movie, else you would not make such foolish assertions.

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[deleted]

A non-muslim could just blink and know that Omar is a hero and martyr of Islam, and Sadaam was a shameful puppet of Western governemnts.

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[deleted]

oh really douchbag let you know i am muslim, douchbag i got a question what happen at the end of the movie and the raciest person i see is you(burrell dale) and your boyfriend choud so hey give me a faveroite (which i spell it wrong) get out of here "DOUCHBAG"

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[deleted]


No offence, but that is a stupid question.

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I agree, a pretty silly question!

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It made Bush a villain but not Saddam a hero!!!!

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[deleted]

[deleted]

[deleted]

what a silly question? what a silly person you are!

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Why are you so ignorant as to ask this question?

Why ask it all?

Do you even know who and what Saddam Hussein is?

And how does this pertain to the film?

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So we're all in agreement? Silly question, silly person, yadda-yadda. Let's get back to loving movies.

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[deleted]

The only difference between Bush and Hitler is that Hitler's father wasn't an arms dealer,

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[deleted]

HA! OMG that one ripped me up... pure genius... :)

anyways, that person who keeps writing in caps - someone dale is it? yes well firstly - we are not deaf. secondly - muslims all over the world have condemned the 911 attacks even though no american president has ever condemned the attacks of terrorism perpetrated by Israel towards Palestinians. thirdly, america funds israel to kill palestinians, invaded iraq after placing strainful sanctions on her and killed her leader THAT THEY PLACED THEIR. just because saddam stopped toeing the american line he got x'd he was created by the american gov. so really? blame yourself.
fourthly, ever heard of the ATB? that gives your government the right to arrest anyone without reason for upto 5 years without bail ubder SUSPICION of being a terrorist. so many muslims have been arrested for unwittingly speaking in the broken and wounded tone that you are SPEAKING IN RIGHT NOW. the ATB gives your gov the right to monitor private conversations without warrant. muslims have no privacy anymore.

also, to whomever created this topic i would like to tell you (in tones of utter civility that any decent human being easilu commands - unlike the rageful insults flung by ignorant fools) that you cannot compare a man (Mukhtar), who fought for his country, and was never bought off by the invading dictatorship to a man (Hussein) who was bought off and instated in an occupied land by a dictatorship and then turned on said dictatorship and got his head rolled for it.

Mukhtar was in a different category. you will notice that by the fact that he had a beard and saddam did not.

also, bush has commited more crimes against humanity in one day that saddam has in his entire life - so for him to kill saddam is wrong.however, if someone else wanted their revenge for the kurdish things - then it may have been justified. the method in which and by whom saddam was killed was wrong.

to finish, to put it in your words, the silence from american people about the atrocities perpetrated by the Israelis is DEAFENING.



_______________________________________
Judge yourself Before Others...

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[deleted]

[deleted]

[deleted]

you sound like a damn terrorist

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[deleted]

[deleted]

You know what! I'm sick and tired of hearing that muslims don't condemn terrorist acts committed in the name of their religion. I have never met a Muslim who hasn't actively and publicly condemned muslim terrorists. Clerics everywhere have condemned Al-Qaida and other groups and issued Fatwa's against them. The fact that you don't see that on CNN or FOX news doesn't mean that it isn't happening; it just doesn't get media coverage. Besides, there are a lot of people that don't feel that they should go out of their way to "prove" to you that they condemn terrorists; they feel that maybe you should be smart enough to know that. Why wouldn't you after all? Even other perceived "terrorists" condemned Al-Qaida and their acts. Right after 9/11, president Bush had a joint meeting/conference with several religious figures around including a Muslim cleric representing the Muslim community in the US who was quick to condemn those acts and those who had committed (Al-Qaida). Muslim leaders in Europe and the middle east have done the same. If you haven't read about it or seen it and you want to, actively seek it rather than wait to be fed through your tv screen. Hell, even Hizballah leader Hassan Nassrallah has condemned the 9/11 attacks and Al-Qaida and labelled them as hell-bound lunatics. If you turn on any Muslim tv channel, you'll hear about it.

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bigiedfish you are moran we consider people like u is a dumbass and hey burelle saddam and bush are same *beep* both of them are villan i mean the whole world is going crazy ask me i have exprience and anyway omar mukhater is a really hero not like al qadde or the *beep* bin ladin love you guys who consider muslim is terriost search more because we aint we just wish we have a really leader but everybody like his chair(i hope u know what i mean) and i hope bigiedfish is stoping watching news channel becuse it brian wash u

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[deleted]

burrell_dale,

About waiting to pray until landing,there are five daily prayers in Islam and they are all to be said during five specific times.Have you considered that the time for the Imam's prayers was almost over.If they waited it would be over and they would miss their prayers.Like a devout Christian can not miss Church on Sunday,a devout Muslim can not miss any of the five daily prayers.
About the foot baths,that is an obligatory part thing we have to do before prayers.However, I have to say that Muslims should be a bit more considerate and should take water from the tap and pour it on their feet instead of putting their feet in the basin.
And the Imams were certainly not shoving their religion down your throat or the passengers throat.They were just praying,they weren't telling or even asking anyone else to pray.And there is no proof that they were praying loudly,just a few passengers stated that.

You have been completely brainwashed.I admitted some Muslims' mistakes but your army drill sargents have brainwashed you to the extent that you just won't listen to reason.
The other readers should also know that you have fought the Vietnam war and must have seen some terrible things there and that could have made you mentally retarded.
Are you seeing a therapist?You really NEED to.

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[deleted]

"Could I make a suggestion? I propose that in the FUTURE, Imams can just travel on PRIVATE airplanes! These private airplanes can have foot baths, and the Imams can pray and chant to their heart's content without any possibility of bothering ANYBODY ELSE! And don't try to tell me that the Muslims can't AFFORD it--- Heck, Saudi Arabia could EASILY purchase a whole FLEET of private planes for travelling Imams! THAT could solve EVERYTHING very nicely!"
The Imams were U.S. citizens neither Saudi Arabia nor any other Muslim country has anything to do with them.To them these guys don't exist.An Imam is not an Islamic equavalant of a Bishop no government has anything to do with them,it isn't even a proper job.Imams are just normal Muslims who lead congregational prayers in a Mosque and this is their only task as an Imam.If they are learned enough,they educate people about Islam but this is done by all learned Muslims.For money they have normal jobs like doctors or lawyers.So why would Saudi Arabia pay for these U.S. citizens' private travels.
These people deserve a compensation because they paid for their tickets and weren't taken where they needed to be.How would you feel if you paid for something and it wasn't given to you?Would you atleast not want your money back.

"I know very little about the Muslim religion, but I find it HARD to accept that an Imam is going to be destroyed just for showing restraint and forebearance when travelling with non-Muslims! Tell me- is there ANTHING in the Koran about "extenuating circumstances"?"
Muslims don't pray only on one day of the week.They have to pray on all seven days of the week and there are five obligatory prayers that have to be prayed at five specific times.Islam actually orders restraint and forebarence but the Imams knew that praying silently would not offend anyone.According to your point that it would remind them of 9/11 then white Americans should never go anywhere near African Americans as that should remind them of the slavery and injustice they had to endure in America right up to the 1970s when people like Malcolm X ,Muhammad Ali and Martian Luther King arrived.White Americans should also refrain from going near Native Americans as that should remind them of the fact that you almost destroyed their entire population in the name of Christianity.Germans should avoid going to Britain as that should remind the British of the Battle of Britain in World War II.Russians should not go to Germany as that would remind the Germans of Soviet Occupation.IF all this sounds pointless,that is because your point that prayers should offend the passengers was pointless.

" WERE YOU THERE? ARE YOU AN ACTUAL WITNESS? OR ARE YOU JUST SPECULATING? "
I wasn't there but neither were you so who are you to say that they were praying loudly?I have read the reports and know about Islam,which recommends Muslims to pray silently if they are in a public place.If the Imams knew about Islam,they would certainly pray silently.

"An old Communist tactic: "If you can't REFUTE what a person SAYS, then do the next best thing and ATTACK THE PERSON!""
You are the one using this tactic.The Navy might have taught you how to fight bet judging by your comments,they certainly didn't teach you how to debate and how to communicate with others respectfully.

"And what's MORE---I served in the U.S. NAVY, and there are NO "drill sergeants" in the U.S. Navy! "
Well,there certainly would be someone training your unit.These are the ones I was referring to as "drill sergeants".
During training were they not telling you to shout something?This is brainwashing.
Also during their briefings or motivation speeches,they would be referring to America as the best country in the world and would be referring to everyone else as worthless and things like that,this is also brainwashing.

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[deleted]

burrell dale: You bring up a very good point about the "Flying Imams" incident aboard the US aircarrier last year. It's clear that they came to the airport to cause trouble, make a political statement...not to travel. They did all of these religious incantations at the gate, right in front of the passengers. And then while boarding, instead of quietly sitting down in their assigned seats like 99.9% of normal passengers, they continued to harass the crew with suspicious acts until the captain was obligated to call security.

The Imams claim in their lawsuit against the airline that they were prevented from their constitutional rights of religious expression when they were led off the plane after their antics. Funny thing. Muslims have been flying on commercial airplanes since the beginning of flight...how come it's so important NOW that they have to cause this public praying spectacle at the airport and on the airplane?

The answer is obvious. And in the United States, if a passenger boards an airplane for any other agenda besides personal travel and intends to cause a "scene," he/she will be removed and cited, if necessary.

The airplane cabin, loaded with passengers, is a unique social situation. Rarely do strangers sit so close together, but in every other circumstance, like movie theaters, restaurants, even the train, the individual can get up and leave if someone else is objectionable. Only on the airplane, once the door is closed, is this option not possible. Air travelers instinctively know this fact...everyone MUST cooperate to their utmost while confined inside the aluminum tube. If someone or a group can't do this, OFF THEY GO.

Everyone is allowed to pray silently to their God. No one is entitled to create a religious/political circus at 30,000 feet.

"Lion of the Desert" is one of my favorite movies.

Thanks for reading my comments.

CmdrCody

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[deleted]

burrell_dale
"If these Imams WERE American citizens, then I have even LESS sympathy for them! If they were "American citizens", they SHOULD have KNOWN BETTER, and they SHOULD have ACTED like American citizens! If those Imams had been FOREIGNERS, I would certainly be inclined to make extra allowances for their ignorance of American customs! "American citizens" are expected to KNOW and FOLLOW the RULES, and VISITORS are expected to mind their MANNERS, and BEHAVE THEMSELVES!!! "
First of all, you never had any sympathy for them.
Secondly,there is no rule that says you can't silently pray on a plane.
If there is then please quote the actual words of this rule.

"I said it BEFORE, and I'll say it AGAIN...I hope that these Imams never get a CENT, and what's more, I hope these Imams are forced to pay ALL of the court costs and lawyer's fees! "
I know that you hope they loose the case but I asked you a question.IF you paid for a ticket and weren't taken to where you needed to go,would you not want any compensation.
Imagine you were doing something on a plane and someone misunderstood it then you were taken off the plane and then the booking office refused to give you ticket for the next flight.What would you do?
Don't say anything about what you think about the Imams,just answer my question.WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

"NICE TRY, but your argument JUST WON'T WASH!!!! You are IGNORING the fact that the persecution of the Native Americans took place almost 200 years ago, WWII took place over 50 years ago, and that slavery was ABOLISHED in this country more than 150 years ago! I am 55 years of age, and except for WWII and segregation, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that neither I, nor ANY OTHER American ALIVE TODAY, could have had ANYTHING TO DO WITH ANY OF THOSE TRAGEDIES!!!! Conversly, the September 11th tragedy happened less than 10 years ago, and there are still a HECK of a lot of people who SAW, AND VIVIDLY REMEMBER what happened! Have you ever heard of the Sudan? There are CHRISTIAN slaves THERE with MUSLIM masters! Why don't YOU do something about THAT?!! "
Native Americans and African Americans are still treated unjustly these days in America.Quite recently police in an American city were pulling over cars driven by African Americans for no reason.Search the words "Driving while black" on the internet.As for Native American they were staging protests quite recently claiming some injustice.Also there is a new American game called "Call of Juarez" which depicts a very negative image of the Apache tribe.A very popular game called "Grand Theft Auto" depicts a very negative image of African Americans and Latino Americans.

"THAT is called "disipline"! It is only "brainwashing" if the individual is too LAZY, or too STUPID to think for THEMSELVES...and I am neither STUPID, nor
LAZY "
Telling people to shout anti-Communist,anti-Muslim and anti-Leftist slogans is not discipline.
As for you being stupid,I would refer you to the earlier posts by many others
that call you stupid and idiotic.As for you being lazy you appear not to have properly read my post before replying and your research also appears very limited which proves you as lazy.

" Explain THIS: why is it that Muslims refer to non-Muslims as "Infidels" and preach about converting or KILLING all "Infidels"? Islam is SUPPOSED to be the "religion of peace" isn't it?"
You can't say 21% people in the plant believe they have to kill all others.Moreover, if I am supposed to kill you why am I debating so decently with you even tough you appear to be shouting at me?
Islam is supposed to be the religion of peace.
If you are a movie-lover then watch a movie called "The Message".It is an American movie and explains the actual rules of Islam,mostly ignored be terrorists.Also watch a movie called "Khuda Ke Liye" which shows the problems Muslims have been facing since 911.If you aren't too lazy go to http://www.youtube.com and search "9/11 Coincidences".

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Arif: Your attempt to see both sides in the "Flying Imam" case is good. However, more facts from the case should be made clear to you.

The Imams were not praying silently. There is no restriction on that. How could there be? The Imams came to the gate, laid out prayer rugs in front of all the waiting passengers and began a religious rite in front of everybody. In spite of this spectacle, the airline still allowed them to board.

Once aboard, they continued their antics....changing seats, asking for seat belt extensions, chanting in Arabic, refusing to take their assigned seats, refusing to follow flight attendant instructions: all of this before the door to the airplane was closed. There was no misunderstanding. The group was highly educated, spoke and understood English very well and had traveled on commercial aircraft before.

The Imams simply continued their activities until the captain called for security. Clearly, that was the point. Why else would grown men act like children? They were making their political statement.

Am I against political statements? Religious rites? Of course not. Make them where ever they want...except not on an airplane. That simply won't be allowed. All passengers must follow instructions given to them by the crew, the airline, the FAA and the TSA or they simply won't travel by air. Everyone MUST be on their best behavior in the contained space of the airplane cabin.

If everyone behaved as the Imams did, there wouldn't be any commercial flying at all.

Or...is that their plan?

"Lion of the Desert" is a terrific movie. The director of the picture, Moustapha Akkad, also directed "The Messenger." Akkad was killed by a terrorist bomb in Jordan by the "Al Qaeda in Iraq" criminal gang.

CmdrCody

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[deleted]

"If those Imams HAD merely "prayed silently to themselves" THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO TROUBLE---BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT THEY DID!!! "
Then what did they do?
If they had even plastic weapons they should have been taken off the plane immediately but they didn't have any weapons.What terrorist thing could they do without weapons?
They were harmless passengers taken off the plane just because of racists.

"Since you ASKED, I'll TELL YOU "what I would have done": If I WERE a Muslim myself, I would be EMBARRASSED, and a little ASHAMED for what had been perpetrated by fellow "members" of my "religion" on September 11th! And the LAST thing *I* would want to do would be to CAUSE TROUBLE AT AN AIRPORT, OR ON AN AIRPLANE! I would not even want to draw ATTENTION to myself! THAT is what I would have done."
I asked you not to say what you think about these people.My question what you you do if your actions were misinterpreted and you were taken off a plane.
Imagine this.In 1989 the CIA plans to kidnap some dangerous Soviet leaders by hijacking their plane.The mission goes disastrously wrong and the plane ends up crashing into an important building in Red Square,Moscow.This results in a war and the Soviets win and demonize the existing American regime,so even when the war is over all Russians think all Americans are bad.In 1998 you are an American businessman living in Moscow for the past four years.You have to go from Moscow to Minsk for some personal matter.You come to the airport wearing an "I love NY" T-shirt.Some Russians see you and whisper something.On the plane you want to sit with some of your friends to discuss something important but the assigned seats do not allow this so you change them.You are overweight so you think you might need seatbelt extensions so you request them but then discover that you didn't need them.However you do not want to disturb so instead of calling someone to return them you keep them in the front.Then you talk to your friends in English and mention the words 'Russia','bad','communism' and 'America'.The Russians misinterpert this and you are taken off the plane.Now what would you do?

"That just MIGHT have something to do with the fact that we can't touch each other over the internet... "
Then how did Muslim Spain turn into the best place in Europe during the Dark Ages.Also,look up the words "Mughal Empire".And why were European Jews fleeing to a Muslim Ottoman Empire when they were being prosecuted in Europe by Christians?
Also I have had a Christan friend,a Hindu friend,a Christan maid and two Christan teachers.

"I mentioned it before, but I'll say it again--- several months ago I met a Muslim man from Saudi Arabia. He was VERY charming, and frankly I liked HIM better than a lot of the "so-called" Christians that I am aquainted with! I am PERFECTLY willing to believe that the radical terrorists DO NOT represent what Islam really stands for! What really INFURIATES me is the fact that so MANY of the DECENT Muslims CONTINUE TO DO NOTHING to either CONDEMN NOR DISTANCE THEMSELVES from the RADICAL elements of the Muslim faith! There were "Christians" in Nazi Germany, but the plain sad TRUTH is that the German Christians DID LITTLE OR NOTHING TO OPPOSE OR STOP HITLER!!! If you are a moral person, you either stand up to, and FIGHT, EVIL, or else you become a PART OF IT!"
Then what are we supposed to do?
Many Muslims already condemned the 911 attacks.I mentioned a movie called "Khuda Ke Liye" it too condemns the attacks.However your reaction to the attacks was not good either.For attacks on a few buildings you destroyed two entire countries.The great city of Baghdad now lies in ruins.The civilian death toll is somewhere near 50000 in Iraq compared to your near 3000.

By the way you didn't watch any of the movies I mentioned,did you?
That just proves my point about you being lazy

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Arif: This is a little far afield from the movie...but I'd like to underscore what happened with the "Flying Imams" case. My sources are from news reports.

They were not praying silently, either prior to or after they boarded the aircraft. They made a public spectacle of themselves.

They were ultimately removed from the aircraft because they refused to follow crewmember instructions. They were highly educated religious leaders with excellent command of English. There was no misunderstanding. It was their objective to be removed from the flight so they could sue the airline. Their lawyers were already in place. This was not some racist incident.

You can sympathize with the Imams if you want, but clearly this was a planned political stunt to test the legal system surrounding airline security.

These are not the only people who are removed from airplanes before flight. It happens every day. And rarely it is because of some "mis-understanding."

There is a higher standard of public behavior required on airplanes, just as there is in other places, like courtrooms, hospitals, churches, temples and MOSQUES. A passenger MUST be on their best behavior and follow all crewmember instructions. If this is not possible, then that passenger will not fly.

It doesn't matter if someone is loudly chanting in Hebrew, Greek, Russian, Japanese, Farsi, English or Arabic...do your religious/political demonstrations somewhere else. It will not be allowed on the airplane.

When the director of "Lion of the Desert," the great Mustapha Akkad, was blown to bits at a wedding reception in Amman, Jordan, by the criminal gang "Al Qaeda in Iraq," he was in the middle of making another picture...a movie celebrating the great Arab hero, Saladin. It's a movie that won't be made, now.

A pity.

CmdrCody

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CmdrCody
"
They were not praying silently, either prior to or after they boarded the aircraft. They made a public spectacle of themselves. "
What news report said that?
Muslims have five daily prayers to be offered at five different times so a real Muslim wouldn't be praying when he enters an airport and then again on the plane.Also Muslims aren't allowed to pray when someone is walking in front of them so they wouldn't have started to pray as soon as they entered the airport.
So either the report is false or the Imams are working for someone who wants to damage the image of Muslims even further.
If the second theory is right then bruell_dale is right and these people shouldn't get any money but they also should not be considered as Muslims and be considered anti-Muslim.However if the first theory is right then the reporter should be fined for false reporting.

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Arif... Google "Flying Imams lawsuit" and you'll see multiple entries on the incident. Don't go by what I say. Read and judge for yourself. One has a photo of the Imams praying in the Minneapolis airline terminal. One has the complete police report. And the Wikpedia entry has the reported offenses which gave cause for the flight crew to summon security.


As you said, the Imams prayed at the gate before boarding and were not praying silently once aboard. They were chanting in Arabic "Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, and Down with America in Iraq." Several had one-way tickets and all of them kept swapping seats and asking for seat belt extensions. They kept this up until security was summoned.

I repeat again. THIS WAS A POLITICAL STUNT. There was no misunderstanding.

As to whom the Imams are working for....

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As hard as Omar Mukhtar fought the Italian Army in the 1920s and 30s to rid his homeland of Mussolini, he and his men were not successful. This fact was not brought out in the movie "Lion of the Desert." The Italians maintained control until 1943 when General Montgomery's British Eighth Army swept Erwin Rommel's combined German-Italian Panzer Army westward into Tunisia. Libya was finally free of Mussolini.

CmdrCody

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CmdrCody,
"As you said, the Imams prayed at the gate before boarding and were not praying silently once aboard. They were chanting in Arabic "Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, and Down with America in Iraq." Several had one-way tickets and all of them kept swapping seats and asking for seat belt extensions. They kept this up until security was summoned."
I didn't say they didn't pray silently,I said that they would not have been praying at two times.If they were Muslims they would have prayed either on the plane or in the airport as the five prayers have to be offered at five different specified times,not all at once.
If the news is true it clearly shows that the Imams were not Muslims and would have been doing these things to damage Muslim reputation,it would not have been a stunt for money gained by sewing the airline as people who pull off those kinds of stunts do everything possible to make it look as real as possible and praying on two times is not realistic.Also as I said earlier if it is true then these people are not Muslims so it would not have been a political stunt either.Thus the people these "Imams" are working for are anti-Muslims.

"As hard as Omar Mukhtar fought the Italian Army in the 1920s and 30s to rid his homeland of Mussolini, he and his men were not successful. This fact was not brought out in the movie "Lion of the Desert." The Italians maintained control until 1943 when General Montgomery's British Eighth Army swept Erwin Rommel's combined German-Italian Panzer Army westward into Tunisia. Libya was finally free of Mussolini."
Actually,"the lion of the desert" shows Omar Mukhtar being hanged at the end and does not say his own group was victorious.It contains an open ending which would encourage people to find out what happened at the end.
As for Mostupha Akkad being killed in Amman, it is a tragic thing but why would Muslims kill him,ever since the first DVD version of "The Message"(I first heard about it in 2003) was released he has been very popular among Muslims.So it would have been some anti-Muslims who killed him.His Saladin movie,as I have heard, was supposed to be something like "Kingdom of Heaven" although I would imagine it would have shown the conflict from the Muslim point of view and the ending would have shown today's Jerusalem like the Message showed the Kaaba in 1976 at the end.

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burrell_dale,
First please read my earlier posts to CodrCody on this thread.

" As far as I am concerned, TOO FEW Muslims have condemned the September 11th attack, and TOO MANY Muslims have APPLAUDED IT!!!

THAT is the PROBLEM---! "
Most Muslims condemned the 911 attacks.Some said that the people who did it had no religion and others said those who did it were TRYING TO RUIN THE REPUTATION OF MUSLIMS.Did you know Osama Bin Ladin was actually a C.I.A. agent during the Cold War?For all we know he still could be,you do know that C.I.A. agents are not allowed to reveal themselves even to their own families,right?Don't try to dismiss this as 007 fiction,watch the History Channel from time to time and you would know.

As for Iraq,look at the following paragraphs from a book written by Joshua Key who served in the U.S. army when the 2003 Iraq War started.

"I must say I loved boot camp.I was good with guns,didn't mind the exercise and felt myself swell with patriotism when our commanders told us that Americans were the only decent people on Earth and that Muslims and terrorists deserved to die."
"One day all 300 of us lined up on the bayonet range,each facing a life-sized dummy that we were told to imagine as a Muslim man.
As we stabbed th dummies with our bayonets,one of our commanders stood on the podium and shouted into a microphone,'Kill!Kill!Kill the sand *beep*
"While we shouted and stabbed, drill sergeants walked among us to make sure that we were all shouting.It seemed that full effect of the lesson would be lost on us unless we shouted out the words of hate as we mutilated our enemies."
This is a part when he was in Iraq:
"Soon after,while my squad mates and I patrolled the streets in our APC,we passed under a thick groove of palm trees.'If you guys were fighting against me right
now',I said to Sargent Fadinetz,'you would all be dead at this very moment.I would have strung a mine up in those trees and I would have been hiding behind that big rock over there and the moment you people rolled under those trees I would have hit the switch.'To my surprise the sergeant did not lecture me for speaking my mind.Softly,he told me,"I'd do the same thing if people invaded America""

This is only the tip of the iceberg,the book contains much more revealing things
including how the soldier refused to return to Iraq after a short leave and escaped to Canada as a criminal ,with his wife and kids ,for not acting like a criminal in Iraq.

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even though his ancient since 2007, if he ever gets to read this, Burell Dale is the biggest moron i have yet seen!! - listen you human piece of trash, first of all, america is not your damn country, you stole it from the poor natives!, at those times you were just as wild as any common animal, second of all, you're a pathetic racist, the kind that makes me sick!! - we muslims may be crazy, we might be trouble makers, and some of us might even be insane, but we are so for a very good reason...

our hearts are filled with passion!!, when we hate, we hate with all our hearts!, when we are angry, we unleash our rage!, for those of us who are kind, kindness to strangers is a second nature to us, even towards fools like you!, when it comes to faith - we are the most faithful religion there is!, and when we love - we do so till the end!!

why is that you might ask? - because we have real warmth in our hearts, and true passion!, for passion does not always involve love but every powerful motion of the heart!

ive lived among your kind, and i do not feel your hearts beat, more than half of your population are divorced parents, now i do not envy this, but if you truly had warmth, faithfulness, loyalty, kindness, and love in your hearts - you wouldnt do that to your children!!

if you consider this freedom, then the only freedom i see is the freedom to Fugck!! so i ask myself, if a nation can do that to its children - what would it be capable of to its neighbours, none the less, strangers!! - i guess conquering in the name of freedom is a good start.

but in the end, i do not blame either side, but all sides, its humanities nature to be pathetic.

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Arif: You don't need to defend the Imams for what they did at the Minneapolis airport. Their leader has pulled this "stunt" before on Delta Airlines. I think that it's been established beyond doubt that the Flying Imams are Muslim and not Israeli agents, CIA, Hollywood actors or some other "evil" entity.

As for Director Moustapha Akkad, I can't see how you can pre-judge his unfinished movie project about Saladin, comparing it to the movie "Kingdom of Heaven" since

(a) you haven't seen a single page of the script or a single frame of film shot from the new movie, and

(b) you did enjoy "The Message" and "Lion of the Desert" so much.

Director Akkad was most definitely killed by Arabs belonging to "Al Qaeda in Iraq" This is a true and undeniable fact for two reasons.

(1) the remains of the suicide bomber who blew herself up (that's right, a woman) at the wedding reception were identified. She left a suicide manifesto, along with her comrades who blew themselves up in two other locations in Amman that night. Jordanian police found their apartment and their car.

(2) Their Jordanian born leader and criminal, Abu-Musab al-Zarqawi, took credit for the bloody attack with great relish. He was (dead now) the "fearless" leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq criminal gang. You remember, don't you? He was the guy in his own terrorist video who couldn't make the machine gun fire until one of his minions reached over and turned off the "safety." After that little problem was resolved, he looked real tough shooting his big gun.

The people who murdered Director Akkad were not CIA, Mossad or Christian provocateurs...they were killers for their Muslim faith, as they proudly stated.
Akkad was probably NOT their target. It's believed that it was the wealthy Jordanian family, throwing a large Western-style wedding reception, that was the target. The great movie maker simply got in the way of these maniacs.

Thanks for reading my comments.

CmdrCody

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CmdrCody,
"You don't need to defend the Imams for what they did at the Minneapolis airport. Their leader has pulled this "stunt" before on Delta Airlines. I think that it's been established beyond doubt that the Flying Imams are Muslim and not Israeli agents, CIA, Hollywood actors or some other "evil" entity."
How do you come to that conclusion?
I already said that Muslims pray at five DIFFERENT times and so if the "Imams" were Muslims then why would they pray in the airport and then then again on the plane?The prayer times are not that close.
This definitely establishes that the Imams were working against Muslims.What proof do you have that they were Muslims?

"As for Director Moustapha Akkad, I can't see how you can pre-judge his unfinished movie project about Saladin, comparing it to the movie "Kingdom of Heaven" "
I had read somewhere that Ridley Scott took over the project after Moustapha Akkad's tragic death.

"Director Akkad was most definitely killed by Arabs belonging to "Al Qaeda in Iraq" This is a true and undeniable fact for two reasons.

(1) the remains of the suicide bomber who blew herself up (that's right, a woman) at the wedding reception were identified. She left a suicide manifesto, along with her comrades who blew themselves up in two other locations in Amman that night. Jordanian police found their apartment and their car.

(2) Their Jordanian born leader and criminal, Abu-Musab al-Zarqawi, took credit for the bloody attack with great relish. He was (dead now) the "fearless" leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq criminal gang. You remember, don't you? He was the guy in his own terrorist video who couldn't make the machine gun fire until one of his minions reached over and turned off the "safety." After that little problem was resolved, he looked real tough shooting his big gun."
When investigating a criminal act one of the most important things to look for is 'motive'.Destroying a wedding reception would have done nothing to damage U.S. troops in Iraq.However there is a clear motive for the C.I.A. to carry out the attacks.AS log as news like this continues,Americans would be sceared and they would be willing to willing to work for the U.S army for much less yet they would be willing to pay more for defense so tax can be increased but salaries can be decreased and those high-up get all the extra cash.

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Arif: Fine. Suit yourself.

CmdrCody

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Yeah, burrell. Arif is starting to remind me of that Iraqi Minister of Information, "Baghdad Bob." Remember that dude?

CmdrCody

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