MovieChat Forums > Heaven's Gate (1981) Discussion > Just finished the "Butcher's Cut" (spoil...

Just finished the "Butcher's Cut" (spoilers)


A few points on the "Butcher's Cut":

It has a running time of approximately 107m and is located here:

http://extension765.com/sdr/16-heavens-gate-the-butchers-cut

I'll qualify my "review" of the "Butcher's Cut" of Heaven's Gate by admitting that I have not seen the original 5hr+ version nor the 219m version of the film (though I have seen clips of many scenes). I'm having trouble finding it for "free" on the internet. If anyone could direct me to a "free" streaming version of the 219m film, I would greatly appreciate it.

I have seen the documentary of the making of Heaven's Gate, entitled, Final Cut: The Making and Unmaking of Heaven's Gate. It is well-worth watching and can be found on youtube, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdcRiPLp4oU

In my opinion, the film, at 107m, felt rushed. The pacing of the action felt too fast, with not enough exposition for its many plot points. Moreover, the main characters were flat, and, I think, the film could have benefited from an additional 20-30m+ to flesh them out, especially the characters played by: Kris Kristofferson, Christopher Walken, Jeff Bridges, and Sam Waterston.

I found it curious that the epilogue was cut and that the graduation prologue was placed at the end of the film.

In the graduation scene, I found the then-40-year-old John Hurt (he looks closer to 60 in this film) playing a 22-year-old to be rather off-putting, though I love John Hurt (in Alien, 1984, the Elephant Man, Midnight Express, Rob Roy, Dead Man, 10 Rillington Place, etc.). It just seems an odd choice by Cimino.

The battle scene was cut by about 20m+ (and by about 80m+ from the original 5hr+ version). I feel that this drastic cut did the film a disservice. This was what the entire film was leading up to and, due to the editing, it felt like an afterthought.

I have read about the real Johnson County War. In reality, Jim Averell and Ella Watson were both lynched; however, those scenes were not included in the "Butcher's Cut" version of the film (I'm not sure whether they are included in the original cut of the film). Those scenes might have added a greater impact to the end of the film, which felt anticlimactic in the 107m version.

I am in Cimino's corner in terms of auteur theory and complete director control (I'm a huge Stanley Kubrick fan); however, I must admit, 5hr+ or even 3hr40m films are, for the most part, unwatchable. Also, practically bankrupting a film studio is rather irresponsible, no matter how great the end product is. I wonder which films United Artists had to pass on because Cimino went $32 million ($103 million in 2015 dollars) over budget.

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Thanks for your post. I have seen the theatrical release (a mess), the "Legendary" 219 minute cut (much better, but too long). And have yet to see the Cimino approved 216, but the Butcher's Cut always interested me, as I felt the 219 could have been cut down by a skilled editor.

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I like a lot in the 219 minutes version, but it's too slow.
The prolog is too long.
Jim A. is too passive for too long & the war at the end is too long.
And there's too much singing & dancing by the immigrants.

But the roller skating is brilliant and a great metaphor for a dynamic society in transit.


I read that Michael Cimino removed one of my favorite scenes in his 'Final Cut':
Right before the intermission, when John Hurt and his horse 'vanish' in the smoke.
That was magical and should have stayed in whatever version.

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There was a theatrical showing this past Sunday, 7/10/2016. John Hurt and his horse still vanished in the smoke, and there was no intermission. FX Feeney gave a short introductory talk. Cimino's last attention to the film was to remove the sepia filter from the 219-minute cut to show the colors he originally filmed, make a couple of sound edits, and slightly change the end sequence on the boat. Other than that the 219-minute cut is his final word. I'm sure there are many people for whom it's too slow, and some who will call it "crap" for that and other reasons, but the house was 2/3 full on Sunday, and from all appearance everyone enjoyed it.


The value of an idea has nothing whatsoever to do with the sincerity of the man who expresses it.-Oscar Wilde

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You can find the 216min version as a 970MB torrent at least, the picture quality is ok (although better quality would be advisable).

I think the film probably loses a lot if you cut it to 107 minutes...
It's like making a movie out of a miniseries... doesn't quite work.

Speaking of which, people who liked Heaven's Gate should also check out "Lonesome Dove" miniseries, which is simply brilliant.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096639/reference

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Thank you for the "Final Cut" link!

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