MovieChat Forums > The Final Countdown (1980) Discussion > How About a "Reverse" Final Countdown?

How About a "Reverse" Final Countdown?

posted 8 years ago by ronaldt49
50 replies | jump to latest

Instead of American Carrier Nimitz finding itself in 1941 let's have Japanese Carrier(s) go through same storm(?) and find themselves at 1980 Pearl Harbor.

1. Since Dec. 7, 1941 did not occur now, at least not as originally reported, what would be seen at Pearl?

2. Would Japanese forces still attack even though what they saw at Pearl when they got there wasn't what they were expecting? I'm assuming that by 1980 the ships originally destroyed at Pearl would have been retired.

3. Did WW II happen perhaps at a later date?

4. Did a Japanese officer learn things that helped his lot in life when he got back to 1941, assuming he did get back? Did he pick up information that helped a later attack on PH succeed?

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

Already been done.
(At least in Novel, not Film)

Look up "The 7th Carrier"

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

let's have Japanese Carrier(s) go through same storm(?) and find themselves at 1980 Pearl Harbor.

The Navy can now track any ship at sea, and ships would have been immediately detected. And yes, WWII with Japan would've happened anyway.

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

The Navy can now track any ship at sea, and ships would have been immediately detected.

Not quite.

We're good. Not that good.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

The Navy has claimed that satellite technology allows them to detect incoming ships heading close to American waters, so I'm simply quoting the admirals.

Not to mention underwater detection abilities.

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

Yes we have sensors that can cover almost the whole ocean.
But the information from them is buried in a a literal ocean of data. It is more of an ability to go back after the fact and find where something came.from, than it is a real-time detection and tracking.

SOSUS has been shut down and/or converted to pure oceanographic research for a couple of decades now. Even when SOSUS was ooerating Mikitarily... It was just a tripwire. Not so much detection and tracking as it is an alert to inform where to send additional assets to actually detect, track, and potentially prosecute a target.

And satellites.... Despite our satellite sensor technology and photographic abilities, the oceans are MASSIVE. And ships... move.
Its one thing to search for fixed landbased site.
Its another thing to systematically cover entire oceans.

You may be basing your statements off some propagandistically exaggerated statement of some admiral.
I'm going off reality.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

Yes we have sensors that can cover almost the whole ocean.

HARP. Which is killing sea mammals too.

You may be basing your statements off some propagandistically exaggerated statement of some admiral.
I'm going off reality.

In my country it's called perjury if your co-workers who wear stars on the collars give false testimony in House and Senate committee meetings. And yes, I do watch Senate Armed Services Committee meetings and House Armed Services committee meetings on C-Span. And the Admirals have testified they can track ships approaching American waters, or regions around the world that included "American interests".

So either you're not privy to all classified information (imagine that...), or perhaps you're an admiral?

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

HARP. Which is killing sea mammals too.

What lame-brained conspiracy BS are you going off about now?

In my country it's called perjury if your co-workers who wear stars on the collars give false testimony in House and Senate committee meetings. And yes, I do watch Senate Armed Services Committee meetings and House Armed Services committee meetings on C-Span. And the Admirals have testified they can track ships approaching American waters, or regions around the world that included "American interests".

So either you're not privy to all classified information (imagine that...), or perhaps you're an admiral?

You don't even realise the paradox of your statement, do you?

ROFLMAO!

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

What lame-brained conspiracy BS are you going off about now?

So there is no such thing as HARP, or now you're an expert on marine life? Next week you'll be an astronaut?

You don't even realise the paradox of your statement, do you?

So you contradict the Joint Chiefs and end by giggling like a girl.

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

Ok.. explain to me what is HARP and how is it killing Sea Mammals.

Googling, I find nothing under "HARP killing sea mammals.

I think you may be referring to HAARP, not HARP.

If I google HAARP killing sea mammals I get a freaking ton of hits.

Every last one of them from moronic and idiotc sites ran by conspiracy dumbasses. The same sort that believe in Chemtrails over Contrails, Alien visitations, 9/11 was done by our own government, and other such total bullsh!t.

Please tell me you are not one of "those people".

The Irony you fail to get in your last part... is that you claim your info is correct and mine is not, citing that I am not privy to classified material, then cite your own source being a PUBLIC HEARING BEING BROADCAST OVER A PUBLIC ACCESS TV CHANNEL!!! ... which for sure as hell is NOT classified material.

And an FYI.... I HAVE been privy to classified information(Not that I would ever divulge such information to you or anyone else publically)

I doubt you can legitimately make the same claim.

My job in the US Navy required a SECRET level clearance.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

You may be basing your statements off some propagandistically exaggerated statement of some admiral.

wow

...just wow.

Googling, I find nothing under "HARP killing sea mammals.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-military-sonar-kill/

So according to you, HARP has zero impact on marine life? Spoken like a true navy hack.

Oh of course HARP is harmless. Simply because... the sailor says so.

I suggest you google the reality of just how sensitive marine mammal hearing is, and how biologists have tested how marine animals react to even moderate high sounds underwater. Start there and work you way into the research.

But regardless...navy people will still be in denial anyway.

PUBLIC HEARING BEING BROADCAST OVER A PUBLIC ACCESS TV CHANNEL!!! ... which for sure as hell is NOT classified material.

No classified information was broadcast. Here...I'll type it again.., Your admirals claim no "threatening" ships could get near American shores or in range of American international interests without detection. It's their claim. No classified info was asked for or provided in committee sessions.

Chemtrails ...done by our own government, and other such total bullsh!t.

Please tell me you are not one of "those people".

You might want to read this week's news. lol geez

(Not that I would ever divulge such information to you or anyone else publically)

I would never ask for the sicking truth regarding military secrets.

I doubt you can legitimately make the same claim.

Are you suggesting that military personnel testimony in Senate and House committee meetings is meaningless?

"You may be basing your statements off some propagandistically exaggerated statement of some admiral." Yes...even "trolls read your comments from previous posts.

My job in the US Navy required a SECRET level clearance.

Translation: 'I know everything.'

Got it.

Alien visitations... and other such total bullsh!t.

Please tell me you are not one of "those people".

You just claimed this planet has never been visited by a civilization from another planet. You have zero proof to back that up sailor, yet claim unfounded claims are purely my problem and not yours. So the Navy and/or your Bible told you the human race has never had an alien visitation.

Got it.

"(Not that I would ever divulge such information to you or anyone else publically)"

So then...if the Navy was aware of extraterrestrial visits, you would tell us? lol

Not likely your admirals would either.

translation: You have a monopoly on information, and claim to be trustworthy. Funny stuff sailor.

I have a healthy amount of skeptical opinion about alien visits as well. But I don't call people crackpots for investigating. Because I trust your navy and federal government about as far as I can throw it.

Maybe you should check the public opinion polls on American trust for their own government next time. Google that issue.

By the way...lets say aliens don't exist. Which could be the case, most certainly. Do you have any conception of how badly your navy and Defense Department have handled numerous controversies regarding this subject?

You people do it to yourselves every year, just like Trump tweets.

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

Googling, I find nothing under "HARP killing sea mammals.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-military-sonar-kill/

So according to you, HARP has zero impact on marine life? Spoken like a true navy hack.

Oh of course HARP is harmless. Simply because... the sailor says so.

Your article has nothing to do with whatever the hell your so-called HARP is.

It has to do with the impact of active sonar on sea life.
Yes.. active sonar can kill.
I would never claim otherwise.

I am asking you again... WTF is HARP? and how does it kill sea mammals?

You are such a fraking moron... you don't even know wtf you're talking about when you say HARP.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

Sonar "can kill", but you don't believe HAARP can. lol

At least I got the sailor to admit to that.

http://www.zengardner.com/haarp-continues-to-murder-sea-life/

Cold day in hell before I'll believe the Navy jackasses.

Did you type fraking or mean fracking for our next topic you'll go into denial over.

lol

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

LMAO at your moronic link.

Thanks for proving my case.
That link proves nothing other than idiots post crap to the internet and other even dumber idiots believe them.

There is no evidence that HAARP cause those die offs. The bodies of the dolphins were "scorched" because they were sitting out in the sun for hours, their death was from being beached, not some mysterious heat ray.

The so called HAARP funnel... is nothing more than an unrelated waterspout.

You, Sir... are a gullible moron.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

There is no evidence that HAARP cause those die offs. The bodies of the dolphins were "scorched" because they were sitting out in the sun for hours, their death was from being beached, not some mysterious heat ray.

HAARP drove sea mammals to the beach, and the sun did the rest. Very good sailor. We'll keep working at it.

Amazing that you confessed that sonar kills.

...then claim HAARP is harmless.

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

The fact of the matter is that it is physically impossible for HAARP to do what you morons claim it is doing.

Your claims are science FICTION. HAARP isnt some tesla earthquake weapon or death ray.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

Actually extreme sound to attempt to detect and track Soviet subs or other potential enemies.

Actually there are some good books on the subject that can be easily ordered, but every word is considered controversial by you Navy buddies the admirals, who deny that intense sound can kill sea mammals and drive them to the beaches.

Even I question the earthquake jazz, but that doesn't stop me from questioning HAARP's impact on nature.

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

Hey dumb sh!t... how about you keep your arguments straight.

You are all over the place. I suspect you may even be drunk, as little sense your logic is making, you must have some sort of impaired mental facilities.

I said and agreed that active sonar can harm animals. That is a given.
I am not arguing against that, you your dumb ass keeps going back to it as though I am denying it.
STFU already.

You made the claim that HARP (actually it is HAARP) was doing so.

HAARP is not active sonar you moron.

The very link YOU provided was a conspiracy moron ranting that HAARP was killing animals.
No... It's not!

The moron at the link was taking images of different things and assigning his own totally bullsh!t explanation for them that has no basis in facts.

He claims that the HAARP weapon was scorching animals and killing them.
The images was of Dolphins that beached themselves and had died, and whose bodies was then decomposing and baking under a hot summer sun. Not scorched by some mythical super weapon from science fiction

He then talks about the HAARP effect funnel. No such thing. The image he shows is a completely unrelated image of a normal WATERSPOUT!

Can you keep your damned arguments srraight and coherent? Maybe sober up before drunk posting again.
Stop Strawmanning me.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

HAARP is not active sonar you moron.

Hey I found one sentence we agree on. lol

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

Even I question the earthquake jazz, but that doesn't stop me from questioning HAARP's impact on nature.

Some actual intelligence and a little knowledge in the actual subject matter would.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

Some actual intelligence and a little knowledge in the actual subject matter would.

A sailor would actually need to have a conscience to begin with in order to make a credible argument.

Based on what I'm looking at, you couldn't care less about sea mammals.

Typical navy attitude.

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

Ad hominems without any evidence is worthless. Its pathetic you even try it.

I have made no statement with which you can use as a base for a claim that I could care less about sea mammals.

I have made no statement for which you can lay base to a claim that I have no conscience.

You however... have repeatedly made utterly nonsensical statements which calls your intelligence into direct question.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

Ad hominems without any evidence is worthless. Its pathetic you even try it.

Which is exactly what you're guilty of doing, so your post subject is self descriptive. lol Or do I need to copy and post your ad hominems?

I could care less about sea mammals

Then prove that you care and what you plan to do about it. Which is zip, I'll wager.

I have no conscience

So all your ad hominems are a product of compassion? lol geez...this is too easy.

have repeatedly made utterly nonsensical statements

1) You admitted sonar kills sea mammals.

2) You admitted HAARP is communications, which is audio. The auditory pain creates stress, panic and disorientation to the nervous system. The mammals beach themselves and fry in the sun. Pretty easy to figure out.

So here is your ad hominem response: 'Oh that could never happen!!! You're a fraking idiot!!!'

I think we're making progress sailor.

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

Then prove that you care and what you plan to do about it. Which is zip, I'll wager.

I dont have to prove I care.
You made the claim (without evidence) that I don't.

YOU have to prove your claim true.
I do not have to prove your claim false.

Kurt-2000 is a child raping pedophile.
Prove you're not.
I made the claim you are, so prove that you are not.

Now I don't belive you are. At least I have no reason to think its true, nor am I actually making the claim, just making a point.
In the case above. You can deny the claim. But there is no way to PROVE the claim false. At best all that can be done is fail to find proof it's true. But absense of proof, is not proof of absence.

You made two accusations against my character with no evidence whatsoever.
They are utterly false but I do not have to prove the accusation false. YOU have to prove them true. Your accusation without evidence is a prime example of a fallacious ad hominem.

My calling you an idiot and a moron however.... is with evidence. Evidence by your own ignorant and factually untrue statements. YOU provide the proof that you are in fact an idiot. Thus it is not "name-calling".

It may be rude and impolite. But I have no reason to be polite to an asshat that tells lies, is ignorant, willfully ignorant of basic facts, And keeps insulting my character.

1) You admitted sonar kills sea mammals.

And? We're not talking about sonar. I am trying to get to your false claim concerning HAARP, which is NOT sonar.

2) You admitted HAARP is communications, which is audio. The auditory pain creates stress, panic and disorientation to the nervous system. The mammals beach themselves and fry in the sun. Pretty easy to figure out.

RADIO WAVES INTO THE UPPER ATMOSPHERE YOU DOLT! NOT ACOUSTICAL SOUND INTO OCEAN WATER!

WHEN WILL YOU GET THAT BASIC FACT THROUGH YOUR THICK FRAKING SKULL!?

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

I dont have to prove I care.

Oh...well then I guess that's how a sailor gets himself off the hook on that topic. lol Predictable cop out.

I can't think of anyone I've met who served in the Navy that expressed any care or interest in sea life. They refer to the mammals the same way Midwesterners refer to insects. It's almost inherent to the occupation. Kind of like the: 'oopps friendly fire accident - too bad'.

You made two accusations against my character

You're certainly a character. And now...lets get to the name calling segment of the discussion.

My calling you an idiot and a moron however.... Thus it is not "name-calling".

Nothing contradictory in that paragraph. lol geez

NOT ACOUSTICAL SOUND INTO OCEAN WATER

Others would disagree with you...but I figure you'll be claiming to have high level access to classified projects in three, two, one....

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

Others would disagree with you...

Yeah... total idiots.

Do you even know what HAARP stands for? I doubt it because you initially referred to it several times as HARP.

HAARP: The High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program

Let me direct your limited attention to the second A, the one you left out. Auroral.

As in, pertaining to auroras or Northern Lights.

Its purpose was to analyze the ionosphere and investigate the potential for developing ionospheric enhancement technology for radio communications and surveillance. The HAARP program operated a major sub-arctic facility, named the HAARP Research Station, on an Air Force-owned site near Gakona, Alaska.

The most prominent instrument at the HAARP Station is the Ionospheric Research Instrument (IRI), a high-power radio frequency transmitter facility operating in the high frequency (HF) band. The IRI is used to temporarily excite a limited area of the ionosphere. Other instruments, such as a VHF and a UHF radar, a fluxgate magnetometer, a digisonde (an ionospheric sounding device), and an induction magnetometer, were used to study the physical processes that occur in the excited region.

No Acoustical instruments, no sound. No oceanic instruments. Gakona Alaska and the HAARP facility is located far inland, not on the coast.
HAARP itself has not been operating since May of 2013, and permanently closed since August 2015.

HAARP was a target of conspiracy theorists, who claimed that it was capable of modifying weather, disabling satellites and exerting mind control over people, and that it was being used as a weapon against terrorists. Such theorists blamed the program for causing earthquakes, droughts, storms and floods, diseases such as Gulf War syndrome and chronic fatigue syndrome, the 1996 crash of TWA Flight 800, and the 2003 destruction of the space shuttle Columbia. Commentators and scientists say that proponents of these theories are "uninformed", because most theories put forward fall well outside the abilities of the facility and often outside the scope of natural science.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

HAARP: The High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program

That was the description the program was hidden under, only with the understanding that the Navy was willing to share with the public when responding to public and press inquiry. For the most part, the Navy has offered next to nothing in providing information on this technology. The underwater aspect of this research was never discussed with the public. Leaks from former staff did shed some light to justify public concern.

No Acoustical instruments, no sound. No oceanic instruments.

What the Navy wants you to believe.

Gakona Alaska and the HAARP facility is located far inland, not on the coast.

That's one facility location the Navy allows the public to know about.

Your insecurity problems regarding this matter is truly bizarre. What are you afraid of? The Navy is in no danger of losing this project or any of their other highly classified research programs. They've got the Congress giving them anything they want. A very sweet arrangement for your (former?) employer. And we continue to count the dead sea mammals washed up on the shore.

But I shouldn't be an ingrate here. You did confess the impact of sonar on sea mammals, so I should be grateful for that much honesty. Other Navy guys wouldn't have even gone that far.

HAARP itself has not been operating since May of 2013, and permanently closed since August 2015.

Yeah, and there's nothing going on at Area 51 either. And there aren't any other classified facilities in the U.S. either, or no-fly zones. Sure...I get it. Just shut people down when questions are asked. That is the classic military tactic.

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

That was the description the program was hidden under

What the Navy wants you to believe.

ROFLMAO...
and you attacked me saying I am not privy ro secret programs yet you and your conspiracy nujob morons seem to claim to know everying about supposedly hidden and secret orogram that are made up in your imagination.

Tell me... just how the hell do you think you know something that's hidden and covered up.?

Fraking morons, I swear.

But I shouldn't be an ingrate here. You did confess the impact of sonar on sea mammals, so I should be grateful for that much honesty. Other Navy guys wouldn't have even gone that far.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

Tell me... just how the hell do you think you know something that's hidden and covered up.?

Fortunately not all insiders are loyal to cover-ups. Extremely bad classified projects have already been exposed in American military history.

Fraking morons, I swear.

According to your many board comments directed at various people, that would include anyone who dares to disagree with the sailor. You're "fraking" consistent in that pattern behavior.

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

Fortunately not all insiders are loyal to cover-ups.

Those insiders are not insiders. They're kooks, cooking up a bs story which other morons swallow hook line and sinker because it fits what they want to believe.

Jackasses like Bob Lazar, who claims to have worked at Area 51 on reverse engineering alien spacecraft.... are really nothing but deluded idiots, Lazar having done nothing more than took an electronics course at a junior college.
His stories are fiction.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

Those insiders are not insiders. They're kooks, cooking up a bs story which other morons swallow hook line and sinker because it fits what they want to believe.

lol Now you're claiming to know these people. No surprise there.

Jackasses like Bob Lazar

Interesting how that guy what brought up, when I made no reference to him. Back to your "alien" interests again.

No one believed Lazar, you dope. That story was put to rest in the '80's. Even the U.F.O. buffs rejected his claims.

Area 51 on reverse engineering alien spacecraft

Is that what inspired you to watch this lame film? Seems to be a favorite of yours since you're fighting with people on every thread.

Take your meds sailor.

Since you're so fascinated with Area 51 and in denial over environmental damage, I now recall the infamous lawsuit DoD fought against when Area 51 grunts were ordered to burn toxic waste in pits, and suffered fatal respiratory damage that was irreversible. Another Defense department scandal.

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

YOU are the one that brought up Area 51 you damned troll.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

I didn't invite UFO-fest, so you're going off half cocked again. There are numerous examples of federal facilities that are kept secret and even have no-fly zones overhead.

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

There are numerous examples of federal facilities that are kept secret and even have no-fly zones overhead.

Of course there are. But that proves NOTHING about what we are disagreeing about, Does it.

And a slight correction, Not kept secret. Simply restricted in access. the facilities are known, not secret. You're just not allowed to go there.

The Area 51 facility is the notable exception where the secrecy is so over the top that it's very existence is officially denied (until recently).

It is that very level of secrecy that spurred on morons to imagine all sorts of fanciful and ignorant conspiracy theories surrounding it.
But it proves nothing.

There are no-fly zones for many reasons. And they are not called No-fly zones. it is "restricted Airspace".

There is restricted airspace over the capitol, around the Cape Canaveral Launch Site for NASA, And many many military sites have restricted airspace for all manner of reasons.
None of which prove, or in any way gives credence to any of your conspiracy *beep*

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

Your insecurity problems regarding this matter is truly bizarre. What are you afraid of? The Navy is in no danger of losing this project or any of their other highly classified research programs. They've got the Congress giving them anything they want. A very sweet arrangement for your (former?) employer. And we continue to count the dead sea mammals washed up on the shore.

There is no insecurity on my part. That is a false assertion on your part. And trust me... Congress is FAR from giving us everthing we need much less everything we want. Cutbacks and downsizing is the order of the day and we are very hard pressed to perform the missions required of us with dwindling assets and manpower.

Lately we have taken to canibalizing museum aircraft to keep current aircraft flying. And you think Congress gives us everything we want... LOL in your dreams.

And there is nothing bizarre about my reactions. I am countering ignorance with facts.

But I shouldn't be an ingrate here. You did confess the impact of sonar on sea mammals, so I should be grateful for that much honesty. Other Navy guys wouldn't have even gone that far.

Dont even try to falsely insinuate that I confessed and agreed to your bullsh!t assertions and claims.
I.
Do.
Not.

Any and every one in the Navy agrees and will admit to the known fact that Active Sonar (Not passive Sonar) can harm and even kill nearby animals in the water.
Even a human.
When a sonar pulse goes out, it is so powerful that water around the dome itself actually boils. It can stun and even kill anything nearby.
But this is for animals NEARBY... within a few hundred yards.

What the Navy and including myself... refuses to admit to because there is nor concrete evidence of it, only anecdootal claims... is that unrelated whale and dolphin beachings are a reault of sonar use.

It is possible there may be a connection. but so far there has been no evidence found of it.

You wrongly take my statement of one thing, and misconstrue it as an admittance of something you are claiming. It is not.

Yeah, and there's nothing going on at Area 51 either. And there aren't any other classified facilities in the U.S. either, or no-fly zones. Sure...I get it. Just shut people down when questions are asked. That is the classic military tactic.

There is plenty going on at Area 51.
High tech and classified Aeronautical research into advanced aircraft.
Its where our steath aircraft and drones are being developed. Historically it is where programs like the SR-71, A-12 Oxcart, B-2 Spirit, U-2, F-117, etc.. were developed.

But if you are referring to alien spacecraft...
again, You are a moron.

There are plenty of classified facilities all over the US.
I've gone to school at a couple of them.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

There is no insecurity on my part. And trust me...

LOL No thank you.

And you think Congress gives us everything we want... LOL in your dreams.

Defense News from last year:

"WASHINGTON — The US Congress overwhelmingly passed, and President Obama signed, the $1.15 trillion omnibus spending measure that contained $572.7 billion for defense in a succession of votes in the House and Senate on Friday."

And you suggest that's not enough. More increases for next year as well.

wow...

Any and every one in the Navy agrees and will admit to the known fact that Active Sonar (Not passive Sonar) can harm and even kill nearby animals in the water.

Again...glad to see the confession.

There is plenty going on at Area 51.

Again...the point being for slow learning sailors, DoD only recently confessed that this facility even exists. Many other covert military facilities exist as well. Not to mention the decommissioned facilities that were exposed in the last 50 years.

But if you are referring to alien spacecraft...
again, You are a moron.

Copy and post were I typed "aliens". We were discussing classified base facilities.

It's not like sailors have any interest in the Navy confronting paranormal anomalies.

 

Multi-dimensional vortex anyone?

There are plenty of classified facilities all over the US.

Oh the truth peeked out just a little there.

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

And a slight correction, Not kept secret. Simply restricted in access. the facilities are known, not secret. You're just not allowed to go there.

Area 51 is not the only federal facility the public doesn't know about. There are others.

It is that very level of secrecy that spurred on morons to imagine all sorts of fanciful and ignorant conspiracy theories surrounding it.
But it proves nothing.

There is a question as to what goes on in federal facilities when there's a small amount of civilian oversight. The workers at Area 51 that lost their lives from burning pits weren't going to get any assistance, before the lawsuit.

And they are not called No-fly zones. it is "restricted Airspace".

From the civilian perspective, they are: 'You're in deep trouble if you go near near that airspace'. That comes across as very "no-fly" from the civilian perspective.

There is restricted airspace over the capitol, around the Cape Canaveral Launch Site for NASA

Those are understandable restrictions since we know what goes on in those places and people like me agree with the reasons. Highly classified facilities with no explanation bring into question if even presidents know what's going on. The George H.W. Bush administration might have been the last administration to be given accurate explanations. Cheney as well under "W"s administration. There is some question as to whether Democratic party presidents where left out of the loop when it comes to classified information.

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

Area 51 is not the only federal facility the public doesn't know about. There are others.

You see? THAT right there is the conspiracy mentality.
If the public does not know about them, Then how do YOU know they exist?
FACT... You Don't. You just claim it to be true with no facts or evidence.

There is some question as to whether Democratic party presidents where left out of the loop when it comes to classified information.

If Hillary wins the next election... She BETTER BE LEFT OUT OF THE LOOP, or all Our secrets for national Defense will just be posted publicly for all to see.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

If the public does not know about them, Then how do YOU know they exist?

Some time ago, Popular Mechanics did a really great story on all federal facilities civilians can't get near in America. They pinpointed a number of locations that are off limits and the military won't comment on. Where is the civilian oversight for these facilities? Are presidents and most members of Congress briefed? We don't even know that.

FACT... You Don't. You just claim it to be true with no facts or evidence.

You tell me the facts when most of these facilities aren't even claimed to be Navy facilities. You don't know either. How do we know what's going on there? It could be anything. You might not have an interest, but there are millions of Americans that do. That doesn't make me or other crazy for wanting to know. I support accountability even if you don't, so continue the name calling. I don't care.

If Hillary wins the next election... She BETTER BE LEFT OUT OF THE LOOP, or all Our secrets for national Defense will just be posted publicly for all to see.

You and I sharply disagree on that, and I don't even like Hillary. Hillary will be DoD's best lap dog ever. Former 'Goldwater Girl' to the bitter end.

But my candidate who lost, Bernie Sanders, would have blown the whistle. So you're safe sailor. You should be happy.

https://www.facebook.com/thefreethoughtprojectcom/videos/1768289740057952/

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

Answer me this...
What EXACTLY is HAARP?

And just HOW is it killing sea animals?
By what mechanism, what scientific principle is it killing?

I really want to know what you think it is.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

And just HOW is it killing sea animals?
By what mechanism, what scientific principle is it killing?

You couldn't care less in the first place.

Use your own search engine. I'm not your mom.

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

I already have.

Every claim is just that... a claim.

No evidence.
No proof
No explanation as to how.

Those with explanation are from total lunatics talking crap right out of science fiction that totally violates the laws of physics.

So yes.. I want to know what you think.

You refuse because you KNOW I will utterly shred you with actual facts and expose you for a total idiot. You've already proven it by even making the claim and by your rambling, disjointed and utterly nonsensical attempt at debating me.

HAARP is not some military weapon system.
It is not some sort of Tesla energy weapon. It sure as hell has nothing to do with active sonar as you very mistakenly tried to claim like the utter moron you are.

HAARP is a civilian PURE RESEARCH program, primarily funded and operated by multiple Universities and other scientific organizations. It does receive a large amount of military funding because the results of this pure scientific research, has military applications in LONG RANGE COMMUNICATIONS.

It is physically impossible for it to do the thing you damned conspiracy morons think it does.

You... are a fraking idiot.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

Every claim is just that... a claim.

No evidence.
No proof
No explanation as to how.

I can recall when your navy went into denial over sonar killing sea mammals.

Those with explanation are from total lunatics talking crap right out of science fiction that totally violates the laws of physics.

And that's exactly the response the navy gave to researchers questioning the danger of sonar to sea life.

HAARP is not some military weapon system.
It is not some sort of Tesla energy weapon.

I'm well aware of this, but the destructive path to sea mammals is a legit area of research. I totally understand why you want it stopped by your resorting to name calling. Totally predictable sailor.

It does receive a large amount of military funding

You know that you couldn't sweep that fact under the rug. lol

has military applications in LONG RANGE COMMUNICATIONS.

lol Yes! Exactly. bingo..

It is physically impossible for it to do the thing you damned conspiracy morons think it does.

Cause extreme pain to sea mammal hearing? I think not.

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

I can recall when your navy went into denial over sonar killing sea mammals.

I have never made any such denial. I have stated this several times and yet you keep bringing it up. Why?
Look up "strawman argument" asshat. Then stop using it.

I have always stated that Active Sonar can kill sea life. It can even kill a diver in the water which is why the system is tagged out of service if any work is to be done in the water.

And that's exactly the response the navy gave to researchers questioning the danger of sonar to sea life.

No. It is not the same. Even the Navy acknowedges that a blast of Active Sonar can stun, even kill sea life.
It fits perfectly with the laws of physics and all Navy does NOT deny this.

What the Navy does deny... is claims of sonar being responsible to far removed and unconnected cases of Dolphin/Whale beaching. They don't even deny that it possible. Just that there is as of yet... no proof. Not even non-military scientists have proven it.

I'm well aware of this, but the destructive path to sea mammals is a legit area of research. I totally understand why you want it stopped by your resorting to name calling. Totally predictable sailor.

HAARP is not researching "the destructive path to sea mammals", whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.

You are such an idiot talking out your ass, you dont even realize that HAARP has nothing to do with the ocean at all. No connection whatsoever.

Nor am I trying to stop the conversation. That is abundantly clear to anyone reading our exchanges. I have several times attempted to get you to elaborate on and explain your claim.
You have refused to do so at every turn.
You keep going off on false tangents.

You know that you couldn't sweep that fact under the rug. lol

Damn but you are such an infuriating dumb sh!t

I brought it up not because I could not hide the fact... but as a lead in to explaining WHY it has military funding, but IS NOT a military project.

But leave it to your diminished mentality to assign a false motive.

lol Yes! Exactly. bingo..

You dont even know what you're bingoing...
I did not just prove a point of yours.

Let me be more clear.... Long range RADIO communication.

Radio.. not sonar
Electronic, not sound.

Cause extreme pain to sea mammal hearing? I think not.

You don't THINK. Period!

You have yet to explain the physics behind how RADIO transmissions into the high thin atmosphere on the edge of space over the Arctic to study Aurora, has anything to do with the hearing of sea mammals.

HAARP studies the interaction of the atmosphere and Aurora (Northern Lights) and how they affect radio transmissions.

It has nothing to do with the Sea, Sea Mammals, Hearing, Sonar, or any audio or acoustical sound.

You are an utter moron claiming otherwise.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

I have always stated that Active Sonar can kill sea life.

Again...that was the only admission you can be congratulated on. The rest of your rant is pure blather.

You are an utter moron claiming otherwise.

And you're a former navy hack, and one of the few that defends HAARP.

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

You've got to be trolling. No one is THAT stupid.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kekabot 8 years ago

Hey kurt2000,
If you'd taken a moment to look up HAARP the first time, and spelled it properly in your post, you guys probably could have avoided at least part of this argument. Frankly, there are enough problems in the world to go around, so quit being disingenuous, both of you and believe what you want. Wars have been fought because of dumb fights like this, (albeit on a much larger scale). Get over yourselves, boys. Why don't you both go do your respective "things" and quit revisiting this board, perhaps. Just a thought.

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

I understand wht you are trying to do and appreciate it.

But I will never back down from telling truth in the face of pure stupidity and ignorance.
Ignorance must be fought.

If our argument was one of just two differing opinions, I would agree with you and back off.

But this argument isn't two different opinions.
Its fact vs conspiracy bullsh!t and pure stupidity.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] kekabot 8 years ago

Hey CGSailor, you seem like a nice guy. Did you like this movie? Not sure if you mentioned that cuz I'm NOT reading through all these posts. I just checked back myself because I posted. So anyway, enjoy your day and leave the troll to his own devices. Adios.

[–] CGSailor 8 years ago

It's one of my all time favorite films

I have posted a number of posts on multiple threads here we talk about different aspects of the film and the navy in general here on this board. But yes... I do work to eliminate stupidity where I find it.

Having served aboard a Carrier, the film brings back a lot of memories (though I loved the film long before I ever joined the Navy)

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] 8 years ago

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