MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980) Discussion > NOT a plot hole or continuity error!

NOT a plot hole or continuity error!

posted 8 years ago by nabors76
21 replies | jump to latest

I have heard over the years, that the time Luke spent training on Dagobah was too short-he couldn't be a Jedi-because he ran off to Bespin to rescue Han and Leia. OK, the time it took Han to fly to Bespin is the key factor: how long was that? It takes 49 days to go from Earth to Mars, with our admittedly less sophisticated equipment. And with the hyperdrive broken on the Falcon they would have been restricted to space normal speed. Now, let's say it took them 49 days to get from Hoth to Bespin. That is almost two months for Yoda to train Luke. And he didn'tleave as soon as they arrived on Bespin. We don't know how long Vader tortured them before Luke couldn't resist the pull to rescue them. Hell, USMC boot camp is only 12 weeks! So it isn't a plot hole.

House and Gibbs are my role models!!!

[–] the_bamboo_spear 8 years ago

We have no way of knowing - time has always been very vague in Star Wars. He could have been on Dagobah for days or weeks. Probably not longer than that, unless Yoda gave him a haircut.

[–] nabors76 8 years ago

Yeah, and washed his clothes... But the main point remains-he was there for a prolonged period of time, not the short cut from one scene to another. Then again, referring to the cartoons, the padawan does eventually get a "hair cut."

House and Gibbs are my role models!!!

[–] mcdemuth 8 years ago

It takes 49 days to go from Earth to Mars, with our admittedly less sophisticated equipment.

Where the heck did you get "49" days from?

Found this doing a GOOGLE search:

"The total journey time from Earth to Mars takes between 150-300 days depending on the speed of the launch, the alignment of Earth and Mars, and the length of the journey the spacecraft takes to reach its target. It really just depends on how much fuel you're willing to burn to get there. More fuel, shorter travel time."

150 days, is FIVE Months...

OK, the time it took Han to fly to Bespin is the key factor: how long was that? ... And with the hyperdrive broken on the Falcon they would have been restricted to space normal speed. Now, let's say it took them 49 days to get from Hoth to Bespin.

This part always bothered me about this movie...

I have no idea how things are in the "Star Wars" galaxy...

But here in the Milky Way Galaxy, the nearest star system to ours, is 4.2 Light Years away. That means it would take 4.2 YEARS to reach it travelling at the Speed Of Light.

Unless something weird is going on in the Star Wars Universe, that I don't know about, I am fairly confident that Bespin is NOT in the same star system as Hoth, and there are No Wormholes connecting the two star systems as well.

I also don't think, the Millennium Falcon could travel near or at the Speed Of Light with it's regular engines, and even if it did... The trip from Hoth to Bespin, should have taken YEARS, without Hyperdrive.

How Han thought they could "Make It" is a mystery to me, and clearly George Lucas didn't think about that!...

So it isn't a plot hole.

It seems that the Millennium Falcon getting to Bespin in less than a few YEARS is the "plot hole"...

Not Luke having enough time to train with Yoda.

[–] Kruleworld 8 years ago

Bespin is NOT in the same star system as Hoth

they are neighbouring systems. No idea how close, but when you can travel the entire galaxy in days, a few light years seems pretty close.
My guess is the MF can travel quite fast even at sublight (they go from the shattered remains of Alderaan to the Death star in a few minutes). unlike rockets we use, it only has that big glowy thing in the back. not using tiny thrusters we use to build up speed slowly (using as little fuel as possible).

"He's dusted, busted and disgusted, but he's ok"

[–] nabors76 8 years ago

I got 49 from here, third section down. The paper stated that it would take New Horizons 39 days to get to Mars, I misquoted.
http://www.space.com/24701-how-long-does-it-take-to-get-to-mars.html
So even if I was off by a few days the point still stands and is in fact reinforced: it isn't a plot hole, they didn't get from Point A to Point B in a flash, Luke had plenty of time to be trained.

I am not going to get my knickers in a knot over the differences in time, after all this is science fantasy we are discussing-scientific accuracy is not at the top of their priorities list...

House and Gibbs are my role models!!!

[–] mcdemuth 8 years ago

I got 49 from here, third section down. The paper stated that it would take New Horizons 39 days to get to Mars, I misquoted.
http://www.space.com/24701-how-long-does-it-take-to-get-to-mars.html

I have always heard the estimate of a manned mission TO Mars would take several months. I didn't know we could send unmanned equipment in just 39 Days. That's impressive.

So even if I was off by a few days the point still stands and is in fact reinforced: it isn't a plot hole, they didn't get from Point A to Point B in a flash, Luke had plenty of time to be trained.

Yes. At a minimum, Luke had as much time to train with Yoda...

As it took for the Millennium Falcon to get to Bespin, without Hyperdrive...

Which should have taken longer, than the movie seemed to portray it.

[–] Kruleworld 8 years ago

It probably doesn't seem like a lot of time has passed, as Leia is still wearing her Hoth outfit when she arrives on Bespin.

"He's dusted, busted and disgusted, but he's ok"

[–] otter 7 years ago

I've always been amused that both of them left Hoth with nothing but the clothes on their backs, and Luke got absolutely filthy while Leia was always immaculate.

“Seventy-seven courses and a regicide, never a wedding like it!

[–] nabors76 8 years ago

I have always heard the estimate of a manned mission TO Mars would take several months.

So had I but they are now experimenting with actual matter/anti-mater drives. I saw this on a program with Michio Kaku. It looks promising!

At a minimum, Luke had as much time to train with Yoda...

As it took for the Millennium Falcon to get to Bespin, without Hyperdrive...

And then he did not leave right away, right when the Falcon got to Bespin-remember he was tormented by visions of their suffering for a while before he left. Yes, the movie portrayed the time as being shorter, then again if they hadn't could you imagine the lines to the bathrooms at the theaters?!?!

House and Gibbs are my role models!!!

[–] Theshornwonder 7 years ago

New Horizons is a probe. It doesn't carry humans. It travels much much faster than a manned ship would.

[–] murrayhof 7 years ago

If I may insert a point here, I live in Houston, TX home of the Johnson Space Center, I have been going out to NASA for about 35+ years, the last time I was there was with a bunch of 5th graders, we were watching a "Mission Briefing" as they call it and afterwards they do a Q & A and one of the 5th graders asked the question why don't we go to MARS and the NASA worker replied, "Because it is a 3 year round trip and we have not worked out the food and water problem." So now 2017 I believe that the trip may only be 18 months round trip so 9 each way. Great conversation folks!

Also as a NEAT side note the worker also said that we would do a moon launch to Mars because it would be less fuel with the Moon's 20% gravity of earth, which sounds like a plan.

[–] the_bamboo_spear 8 years ago

You guys have no way of knowing anything about how long it takes to travel anywhere in the Star Wars Universe. It would be like people in 1921 trying to guess how long it will take to fly from Chicago to Los Angeles in the year 2016. The leaps in technology are simply beyond their grasp.

[–] mcdemuth 8 years ago

You guys have no way of knowing anything about how long it takes to travel anywhere in the Star Wars Universe.

You're absolutely right. I even said that I didn't know...

I have no idea how things are in the "Star Wars" galaxy...

But, when you watch the movie, it seems like it took just a few days, for the Millennium falcon to travel to Bespin, WITHOUT HYPERDRIVE...

And I highly doubt that could be possible, even in their galaxy.

You can't change the laws of physics when it comes to star systems. To be in two different star systems, The two stars would have to be far enough apart for the two stars to not be orbiting each other, and not affect each other's gravity. As I said, even if the Millennium Falcon could reach a speed near light speed, it should have at least taken a year or two to get to Bespin.

Anything faster than light speed, then I am left to wonder why they needed Hyperdrive in the first place...

[–] Kruleworld 8 years ago

Anything faster than light speed, then I am left to wonder why they needed Hyperdrive in the first place...

Yeah, because even at light speed it'd take 100,000 years to get across our galaxy, which in hyperspace they seem to do in a couple of days.

"He's dusted, busted and disgusted, but he's ok"

[–] upl2229 8 years ago

OK, the time it took Han to fly to Bespin is the key factor: how long was that? It takes 49 days to go from Earth to Mars, with our admittedly less sophisticated equipment. And with the hyperdrive broken on the Falcon they would have been restricted to space normal speed. Now, let's say it took them 49 days to get from Hoth to Bespin. That is almost two months for Yoda to train Luke.

That doesn't really work because they're supposed to be proceeding directly to the rendezvous point. If too much time passes and there's no sign of Luke or Leia, Rieekan would have to assume that they've been killed or captured and move on. Yet, they've regrouped with the others by the end.

"Have to say, Jimmy - you turned into a real impressive fighter. If I was ol' Mengsk, I'd be runnin' scared from you, too."
"You really mean that, Tychus?"
"Nah. I was just kiddin'."

[–] nabors76 8 years ago

Sure it works. Luke took off straight for Dagobah, completely ignoring the rendezvous all together. You are assuming that they couldn't send Rieekan a message indicating that "the pilot light went out on the water heater so Jack Sprat can't put in his thumb and eat a pumpkin pie..." (Silly gibberish to indicate a coded transmission.) And he may have well considered them lost immediately but then they managed to find the place to regroup later...

House and Gibbs are my role models!!!

[–] JessDrew 7 years ago

For what it's worth NOTHING makes scientific sense in Star Wars - sound in space, questionable aerodynamics, Earth-like gravity and life-sustaining atmospheres on planets regardless of size and solar proximity, American accents in an ancient and distant galaxy etc etc etc.

It's really down to what 'feels right' to the viewer in the context of Star Wars' own sense of 'science'. For me, as a kid, I just saw Luke's Dagobah training as not being very long at all. He'd clearly learned to levitate small objects on his own, so I just figured that a potential Jedi would 'self-train' to a point and that Ben or Yoda would merely help them/him/her to get a solid theoretical grasp on what it all meant and where to go from there. Don't forget that Luke also reached the cusp of full Jedi status between TESB and ROTJ with no formal training whatsoever.

The impossibility of the Falcon getting to Bespin without hyperdrive never bothered me. Distance in the SW universe just 'feels' different to actual spacial reality. I was cool with the idea of it simply taking longer.

Everyone has their own limits though. My first real beef with SW science was when the Death Star II laser, which had to have been several kilometres in diameter, managed to only be a few metres across when it struck rebel ships!

[–] nabors76 7 years ago

All the things you just mentioned-that is why I label Star Wars science fantasy. In genuine science fiction, such as the reimagined Battlestar Galactica you see them complying with the laws of physics. Yes, there is still sound in space but the space battles are supposed to be exciting and sound helps with that. It is also pheasible that the gun sounds heard in BSG were heard by the pilot and that is why the audience heard it-we could hear the pilots talking as well... There was a three or four second point in the space battle (such as it was) between Nero and the Kelvin (had to look it up) where people were violently decompressed into space and you could see the Kelvin phaser turret firing-and it was all dead silent. I read that was the director's nod to real science. It also showed how boring some of it could be without sound.

All in all great points, thanks.

House and Gibbs are my role models!!!

[–] JessDrew 7 years ago

All in all great points, thanks.

No probs. I loved that BSG show by the way!

[–] nabors76 7 years ago

I loved it too, so glad they gave it a proper ending instead of dragging it to absurdity! Refreshing to have a grown up discussion with someone, so many people on here get butt hurt if any of their sacred cows or concepts are disagreed with.

House and Gibbs are my role models!!!

[–] JessDrew 7 years ago

I hear ya! imdb does seem to bring out the worst in people! Thanks for the chat.