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Scott's performance - intelligent departure or failed experiment?


What stood out for me in The Changeling was Scott's performance as John Russell. Personally, I found it to be an intelligent portrayal of an intelligent man. Instead of the typical protagonist in a horror film who becomes a nervous wreck, Scott's character remains calm, collected, and questioning. He doesn't wait for the horror to overpower him - he actively tries to take control of the situation.

However, many people including Roger Ebert (http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-changeling-1980) have complained that Scott's performance is "too impassive" and takes away from the film's effectiveness as a horror movie, because the audience never feels threatened. I can see what they mean, but to me, The Changeling's uniqueness is that it isn't an out-and-out horror movie, but one of those off-beat creations that stay with you for a much longer time than a straightforward example of the genre.

Any thoughts?

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[deleted]

Well said, Grayseph. I thought Scott did a marvellous job of making his voice and personality very different from any of his other roles. He spoke in a "mellow" voice instead of a guttural bark as in Patton or Dr. Strangelove, and his manner was quite gentle and sophisticated, which added an extra layer to the character, since Russell exuded a sense of inner strength.

Being accustomed to entire films that revolve around protagonists who attempt to break out of their grief or trauma, I was pleasantly surprised to see that Scott's character had effectively finished the "soft" business of grieving off-screen and actually wanted to move on in life by the third scene in the film. I loved the character's no-nonsense attitude and lack of self-pity. There was no emotional indulgence in this film - even the crying scene was used to set up the haunting and drive the plot forward. Everything about the film was so wonderfully economical!

Also, I found Scott's presence strangely "comforting" in the context of the film. I wasn't scared because his character was never scared either. I was more interested in how the character would find a solution to the problem. I wish there were more films with such strong protagonists.

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However the other approach works for me too; one of the things I liked about the 2012 version of The Woman in Black was Daniel Radcliffe's obvious fear at what was going on. It helped make the whole viewing experience that much more vicarious.
Yes, a frightened protagonist makes the audience anticipate the horror a bit more. I haven't seen The Woman in Black, but I remember one very effective example in The Conjuring, where one of the girls could see the witch in the room. The girl's obvious fear makes you imagine how terrifying the apparition must be even before you see it.

But that makes the rare strong protagonist in a horror movie all the more memorable when it's well done. You really need an actor of George C. Scott's calibre to pull it off convincingly. Otherwise, the lack of a frightened expression begins to look like an excuse for a lack of acting abilities. Just compare this to Keanu Reeves' unperturbed look in Bram Stoker's Dracula when he was being dragged into a ghostly carriage by a ghostly hand...

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He gets a lot of stick, but with some roles (Neo springs to mind) I think his approach works.
Yes, Keanu Reeves was all right in The Matrix. My high school English teacher was obsessed with that film and made us study it. She actually did a wonderful job of connecting it with classical philosophical ideas as well as postmodernism, so that for a long time, I believed that the film was highly intellectual. Then after a few years when I saw The Matrix again recently, I was astounded at how much of the philosophical content was in fact just my teacher's interpretation, and how the film itself could be read as a simple action movie. And watching Bram Stoker's Dracula ruined my earlier high opinion of Reeves.



To return to The Changeling, I have come to the conclusion that the reason the film does not scare me is not so much due to Scott's portrayal, but the way the film has been structured. I feel that the flashback showing how Joseph died should have been delayed until the very end of the film. Movies which imply a "dark secret" frighten me more if the nature of the secret is only tantalisingly hinted at for most of film, but the actual truth is only revealed at the end. One film that I thought did this particularly well was the Korean version of A Tale of Two Sisters.

Knowing exactly how Joseph died half-way through the film concluded the dark and mysterious chapter of The Changeling for me, and my main interest thereon was how Scott's character would deal with the situation. It's to Scott's and director Peter Medak's credit that they could hold the audience's interest despite changing the tone of the film half-way.




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That first time Scott hears Joseph's voice on the tape has the hairs on my arm up every time!
Unfortunately, I saw a similar scene in The Sixth Sense first, so that The Changeling scene lost some of its impact for me. Of course, The Changeling was made about 20 years earlier, so it's not Medak's fault at all.

In my mind, two scenes in The Changeling stand out for being the creepiest. The first is the bathtub scene. I thought that the anticipation to what we'd see in the bathtub was built up perfectly. Then the sudden shot of the boy's body, turning open-eyed in the water, accompanied by the percussive drum beat in the soundtrack, made my heart start thudding. What made it even creepier was that there was a bubble formation right over the boy's eye, so that his features looked unsettlingly distorted for a second.

The other occasion was when the camera started moving from the ghost's point-of-view during the séance scene, so that we could sense the ghost come out of the attic room and start moving down the stairs as the medium invoked his spirit. It created the impression that the ghost had "awoken" and was responding to the call. No matter how many times I have seen point-of-view shots used similarly in later films, I still find it chilling.

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I loved The Sixth Sense when I first saw it. I had read up on the ending beforehand but I thought Haley Joel Osment's performance was incredible. On a second watching about a year later, I was much less impressed with the overall film, even though the acting still stood out for me. Most of the dialogue seemed cheesy. So I guess now I am not a fan of The Sixth Sense either!

One of the reasons I absolutely love The Changeling is the soundtrack - it's some the loveliest non-classical music I have heard. Part of why Scott is so convincing as the "distinguished" composer John Russell is the quality of the music we hear him "compose". The music just elevates the film from something that should have a cult following to a work that deserves to be considered a classic.

In my view, another film which benefited hugely from its music was the 1976 version of The Omen. That opening hymn to the devil is so creepy! It really sounds like some "unholy" ancient satanic cult chant, if you know what I mean.


I'd love to know your top-20 in the horror sub-genre. Without second-guessing your list, I'll just ask this: have you seen Child's Play, and is it any good? I am not sure if I should bother to watch it.

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Child's Play is like Friday the 13th with a trash talking doll as the killer.

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House. My room. Can't walk. My medal. My father. Father, don't!

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Okay, I haven't seen Friday the 13th either.

I guess neither film is that good after all?

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Thanks for the list, Grayseph. There are plenty of films in there that I haven't watched, and I look forward to seeing them!

My list is pretty short, partly because I haven't watched very many films of this genre, even though I like it quite a lot. Moreover, several of the films that I have seen are non-English. Anyway, I'll provide you with my favourite ones. I have probably mentioned quite a few of these in my posts already.

1. The Shining (1981)
2. 1920 (2008 Hindi-language film by Vikram Bhatt - very effective past the 1/2-way mark)
3. A Tale of Two Sisters (2003 Korean psychological supernatural thriller by Kim Ji-Woon)
4. The Omen (1976 - rather dated, but quite sinister)
5. The Conjuring (2013)

The others that I have seen don't scare me and, unlike The Changeling, don't compensate by excelling in other departments. You might also like to watch Don't Look Now (1973). I haven't seen it but it sounds quite interesting.

There's another question in relation to The Changeling that I'd like to ask, but I can't be bothered starting a new thread because it's a very minor thing. To avoid snowballing this sub-thread, though, I will post the question at the very end of this thread. I'd be really happy if you could offer your views on it. Thanks!

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[deleted]

My list:

1. The Changeling
2. The Woman in Black 2012
3. The Others
4. Dark Water
5. Ringu

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House. My room. Can't walk. My medal. My father. Father, don't!

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Thanks for the list, OmegaWolf! I have been hearing quite a lot of positive things about The Woman in Black. The reason I haven't seen it yet is that I am a bit skeptical of Daniel Radcliffe's acting abilities on the basis of what I have seen in Harry Potter. I don't know if he can convincingly portray a widower with a son, although I suppose given the time period of the film, he is the right age.

I am one of those people for whom acting and characterisation are the most important features of any film. Would you recommend that I watch it?

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Grayseph, wouldn't it be fun to spend the night in a house haunted simultaneously by Joseph Carmichael and Jennet Humphry?

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House. My room. Can't walk. My medal. My father. Father, don't!

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I think he does a fine job as a grieving widower. The man can just about talk with his eyes. As for HP, don't forget that Radcliff is an adult now. I never saw the HP films, so TWiB was my introduction to Radcliffe and I was quite impressed with him.

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House. My room. Can't walk. My medal. My father. Father, don't!

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[deleted]

One of the reasons I absolutely love The Changeling is the soundtrack - it's some the loveliest non-classical music I have heard. Part of why Scott is so convincing as the "distinguished" composer John Russell is the quality of the music we hear him "compose". The music just elevates the film from something that should have a cult following to a work that deserves to be considered a classic.


I agree! The music was wonderful. Loved the piece he was "composing," and the slight nod he made to himself as he realized he'd gotten that one passage "right." The chamber music scene with the students was a convincing nice touch too, and I liked his banter with the students when he first came into the classroom and saw it was so packed.

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The first is the bathtub scene. I thought that the anticipation to what we'd see in the bathtub was built up perfectly. Then the sudden shot of the boy's body, turning open-eyed in the water, accompanied by the percussive drum beat in the soundtrack, made my heart start thudding.


That was the creepiest scene for me. The boy struggling for his life in the bathtub, pounding on the sides of the iron tub (which we now realize was the sound John was hearing), ugh!

Incidentally, I have Grayseph to thank for recommending The Changeling :). I thought I'd seen it years ago, yet somehow had missed it.

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John Russell was so wonderfully unflappable, but there were a couple times when Joseph "got" him, like the bathtub scene and then the ball coming down the stares. The look on his face was priceless!

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House. My room. Can't walk. My medal. My father. Father, don't!

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[T]here were a couple times when Joseph "got" him, like the bathtub scene and then the ball coming down the stares. The look on his face was priceless!
Oh yes, definitely. He looked like he couldn't believe what he had just seen. And that's exactly how most of us would react to a situation like that.

I loved his expression during the séance scene. He had a look of controlled skepticism, as if he was inwardly convinced that the medium was faking the whole thing and half-regretted having to go through the solemn farce, but was compelled to do so for the sake of politeness. I know from experience that it is exactly how I feel when someone pretends to be overly spiritual when I suspect that person to be self-delusional or a hypocrite.

Besides, it would have been inconsistent for Scott to play Russell as being frightened of the ghost, when the character thought of it as an innocent child-victim, like his dead daughter. I think that was an intelligent decision.

There were just two scenes where I found Scott's acting questionable. The first was when he broke the lock to the attic room using a hammer - I don't think anyone realistically hammers like that and I have no idea what the director and actor were thinking then. The other, although less distracting, was his lack of reaction to the medal. But you could justify that because by then he was pretty much resigned to the supernatural nature of the situation.

For the rest of the film, I found him pitch perfect.

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That's all right. I should probably post this question on a new thread anyway. Thanks for your reply!

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I'm a little late to this but I have to say that if you've seen Scott's performance in Dr. Strangelove then you KNOW how brilliant his performance in TC is. It's so universally different, totally polar opposite from his role as General Turgidson in Strangelove. As opposed to most of his roles, he's very quiet, calm, reserved and resourceful...it's a really different display of...what he could do as an actor and it's really quite impressive. My only objection with his casting is that I think they chose an actor who was perhaps too old to be a father. Grandfather, maybe. But that's just my opinion.

If it can be thought, it can be filmed.

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Great post, Sewaat. One of the reasons I liked Scott's performance in The Changeling so much is that it is so different from all his other roles. While Scott brings to John Russell the same strength and unflinching attitude that we find, say, in Patton, he differentiates Russell by imbuing him with a thoroughly pleasant and poised personality. It's hard to imagine that Scott had it in him to be so personable without seeing this film.

I didn't have any problem with Scott's age, because it fitted my idea of a 50-something man who has been career-oriented in the past and married late in life but is now is a fond father. Besides, Scott always looked older than he was.

I suppose the real reason I admire Scott's portrayal of John Russell is that he represents a very different brand of "manliness" to what we usually see on TV, but one that has far more resonance in real life. In the media, being "manly" equates to having a powerful physique and an interest in outdoor pursuits. Scott as John Russell, on the other hand, is manly at a more intellectual, psychological and temperamental level. Scott's Russell is rational, fearless, independent, determined and has an inquiring mind. He is a true gentleman in the sense that he doesn't let his personal grief or preoccupations affect his sense of self-worth or his interaction with others. To him, having lost his entire family is not an excuse to let himself go. Instead, he believes in carving out a new existence for himself.

Most modern depictions of a man who has experienced tragedy of this magnitude would have him shun his friends, break out in rage at innocuous remarks by other people and descend to misery. John Russell does none of these things - we can imagine that he would frown upon these types of behaviour as "emotional indulgences" and "irresponsible". That doesn't prevent him from being entirely in touch with his softer side - we know that he has no difficulty in discussing how he is coping with his grief among friends. It's just that he knows how to behave in society and can keep his personal life separate. That's a rare quality in most modern depictions of men. And it requires great skill and intelligence as an actor to portray it convincingly.

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Well said. I completely agree for all of the reasons you put. He doesn't behave like a typical protagonist does in a horror film. Instead of getting scared and loosing his composure he stays relatively calm through out the whole movie, just trying to make sense of everything that goes on. I think that's why I've always thought of this film as being a sort of....realistic horror film. (If there were ever such a thing.) It's realistic because there's hardly any over the top aspect of it. I found it so surprising that the characters in the film treat the murder like a serious tragedy, not something that's supposed to be feared...even though the characters are afraid, they still do their best to find out what's going on. It's a rare thing when we can see such strong, well rounded characters in a horror film like that.

Real is good. Interesting is better.

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Personally I think Scotts performance was flawless........but then most things he did were.
I felt he gave just the right amount of disbelief, fear and then anger at Joseph.
This is one of my favourite films and its Mr Scott that helped secure that.

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Right, right. I think we can all agree that Scott was simply the best in the film. They couldn't have found a better actor at the time that was better suited for the emotional aspect of the character. But what I find surprising is that people give Trish Van Devere a lot of flack for her performance in the movie. Saying how she wore her heart on her sleeve and was way too over the top to be believable....but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. I mean yeah, it's a given that she wasn't nearly as good as Scott. But as far as actresses go, I thought she was pretty damn decent. I've seen much worse.

Real is good. Interesting is better.

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But as far as actresses go, I thought [Trish Van Devere] was pretty damn decent. I've seen much worse.
I thought the same. For the first two scenes in which Van Devere appeared, I was a bit antagonistic towards her character, since it looked like she was determined to make John fall in love with her. It put me off because I thought it amounted to inviting John to betray the memory of his wife and child - which is irrational, I know, since they were dead.

I started liking Van Devere's portrayal of Claire when she mistakenly took out the red-and-white ball from the chest; her expression when she realised that it was John's daughter's made it clear that she was saddened and mortified that she had intruded on something too personal for John. In a way, that "reassured" me that her character knew what John's boundaries were. She wasn't trying to forcefully impose herself on him. Rather, she was just trying to help him out. After that, I was fine with their friendship.

I thought Van Devere brought more dignity to Claire's character by eliminating the "seductive" aspect of her interaction with John as they became more relaxed and comfortable around each other. It was as if Claire had realised that John wasn't ready for a romantic attachment, and so decided to be happy just being his friend without expecting anything more. That made her character come across as noble and unselfish.

After the séance scene, however, I thought Van Devere was occasionally a bit too extreme in depicting Claire's fear. I am thinking in particular of the scene in which she froze after seeing the wheelchair at the top of the staircase. The expression of fear was convincing, but I thought it was a somewhat improbable reaction in real-life. It felt to me as if she decided to overcompensate for Scott's character showing so little fear.

Scott always looked more cautious and alert than afraid. But as Sewaat has already noted, Scott's acting choice helps to convey John's intelligence and determination. I love the film for it. I think the film could have been braver and allowed Van Devere to also show more restraint, and so defied the convention of a petrified female lead in a horror film.

That said, the ending, which showed Claire standing protectively behind John as he tried to absorb the shocking turn of events, went some way towards equalising the power balance in their friendship. It was the first time since he fainted after the séance that John really "needed" Claire. I like to think that Claire helped him recover from this fresh ordeal, and that they became a couple in the future.

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I think the film could have been braver and allowed Van Devere to also show more restraint, and so defied the convention of a petrified female lead in a horror film.


I agree. Though her fear is understandable given the circumstances of the situation, especially towards the ending of the film....I feel she may have over-played her scenes just a tad too much. Any less and it would have been the right balance of fear and restraint. Some actresses in the business often get cast in horror type films as over-dramatic characters who can't stop screaming at everything that might and does go bump in the night. Which leaves the strong, macho, male lead to protect them because that's just how it's always been done. If you look at any old horror movie poster from the 30s through to the 1960's and you'll see a female co-star with noticeable cleavage screaming her head off, I guarantee it. It's an unfortunate trope that has become a part of the traditional horror movie formula. A cliche that fortunately The Changeling seems to do really well at backing away from, for the most part.

Though there is the occasional flaw in her performance for sure, it wasn't as bad as it could have been. In general, I think both her and Scott were cast perfectly for their roles. And I personally felt that Claire's mostly pleasant attitude created an equilibrium in contrast with the dark tone of the rest of the film. It's actually quite refreshing in my opinion. It's by no means a bad role, it's just a bit over-played at times. But I can forgive the film for that because the rest of it has so much going for it.

I like to think that Claire helped him recover from this fresh ordeal, and that they became a couple in the future.


I certainly hope so. After all of that, it was probably a very....erm...exceptional bonding experience for the two of them. I do wish we could have at least caught a glimpse of what happened to those two after the events of the film.

Real is good. Interesting is better.

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In general, I think both her and Scott were cast perfectly for their roles. And I personally felt that Claire's mostly pleasant attitude created an equilibrium in contrast with the dark tone of the rest of the film.
I loved Claire's personality almost as much I loved John's. In fact, I think their personalities complement each other's to the point it creates a credible on-screen chemistry and, as you say, balances the sombre mood of the film.

I do wish we could have at least caught a glimpse of what happened to those two after the events of the film.
I wish that too. However, I think it was a wise decision not to show their relationship developing further, because it would have made John's character feel a bit shallow and somehow less gentlemanly, given that he had been bereaved less than six months ago. Moreover, a romantically involved lead pair would have invoked the horror cliché you mentioned, in which the man takes over the task of protecting both, the man and the woman. In The Changeling, John does try to look out for Claire, but only in the capacity of a friend. So it doesn't feel like we are watching the cliché play out again.

I don't want to descend to "shipping" territory, but I think John and Claire would suit each other very well as a couple. Both are well-mannered, sophisticated, socially adept, and have no difficulty in drawing other people to them through their pleasantness. More fundamentally, both are intelligent, resourceful, loyal and seem like they are inherently decent people. They also have common tastes: horse-riding, music and possibly a fondness for history.

My favourite "post-credits" scenario is that John will channel the experience of the ordeal into composing a brilliant piece of music, which will reaffirm his reputation as a distinguished composer, and that he and Claire will marry.

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I loved Claire's personality almost as much I loved John's. In fact, I think their personalities complement each other's to the point it creates a credible on-screen chemistry and, as you say, balances the sombre mood of the film.


Not surprising, given that Scott and Van Devere were married when this film was made.

I'm sure they married shortly after the events of the film. Going through something like that can either break or strengthen a bond, I think strengthen in this case.

For those interested, a 1977 article on Scott and Van Devere - http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20067401,00.html
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House. My room. Can't walk. My medal. My father. Father, don't!

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In fact, I think their personalities complement each other's to the point it creates a credible on-screen chemistry and, as you say, balances the sombre mood of the film.


I could not agree more, Rex16. In the film, their relationship really works as friends. Especially as the film goes on, they start to rely on each other for help and information. They make a rather impressive partnership. But I don't know if I would have liked to have seen them go beyond really strong friendship. At least not explicitly in the film. But I think the fact that we can see them as a couple so well is due strongly (and I will reiterate Omegawolf's words here) to the fact that they were married in real life at the time the film was shot. So if their on-screen chemistry seems to jump out at the audience with a life of it's own, it's because I like to think for the most part it was very genuine.

And just to further prove my point, the scene where she snaps at him angrily and starts to walk away shortly after they have their quiet, somber talk in the study...she shouts out: "Stop it, George! Just for one second!". It's a little hard to hear because her voice is a bit shrill, but she definitely does refer to him as George, not John. They refer to this in the "Goofs" section of the IMDB page I believe.

My favourite "post-credits" scenario is that John will channel the experience of the ordeal into composing a brilliant piece of music, which will reaffirm his reputation as a distinguished composer, and that he and Claire will marry.


That's a very lovely suggestion! I like it! I should consider finding some way to implicitly state that's what happened afterwards in my script for the remake. It paints a very peaceful picture in your mind, which would certainly be refreshing for the audience after enduring such a dark and morbid story.

Real is good. Interesting is better.

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Lovely posts, OmegaWolf and Sewaat.

I remember that when I first watched the film, I was quite surprised to learn afterwards that Scott and Van Devere were married in real life. I think they did a great job, especially during the early scenes, of showing just the right amount of coyness and polite reserve around each other to make it seem like they genuinely were people who had just met. I have to credit Scott in particular for creating that impression: I love how he used the very friendly but "un-intimate" smile towards Claire that people use when they don't really know someone but wish to be pleasant.

I am glad you liked my post-credits scenario, Sewaat. Are you preparing a script for a remake? If so, I would very much like to read it, if that is all right with you. In case you would rather wait until it is finished before sharing it, I'll be happy to wait for the finished product.

Thanks for the link, OmegaWolf. I have been snooping around on the Internet for information on Scott, as I am creating a page on him on the website TV Tropes: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Creator/GeorgeCScott?from=Main.G eorgeCScott. It's a website that discusses the "patterns" or "tropes" that appear in films, TV shows, novels, plays and other works of art, as well as in real life. I'd love to receive some feedback on the page on Scott. Let me know if there is something I can add or write differently, or, better still, you and Sewaat can become contributors yourselves! I love collaborating on TV Tropes pages with other fans.

I found out that after his rather unideal early and middle years, Scott settled down considerably in his 50s and remained married to Van Devere for the last 27 years of his life. They separated for a while in the early 1980s but were back together by 1986. I have always had mixed feelings about Scott: on the one hand, admiration for his brilliant acting and ability to self-analyse honestly and articulately, and on the other hand, frustration mixed with disapproval regarding his drinking and flurry of brief marriages. It's good to know that in his later life he finally managed to become a relatively nice and wholesome person.

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Yes. I totally agree. I always think it's amazing when actors who know each other well in real life can act like total strangers. It's so impressive.

Yes, I am! I completed the first draft last February and have been making edits and changes to it since. However, I still have a few things that need to be fixed up. So I will let you know as soon as I'm ready to share it. Thank you for showing an interest.

Well, that page was certainly quite interesting. I just learned quite a bit about him that I didn't know of! But there is a piece of trivia that I did not see that you may find interesting.

George C. Scott was cast in 1964's Dr.Strangelove as General "Buck" Turgidson under the direction by a very young Stanley Kubrick (at the time). Initially, Scott didn't respect Stanley very much when they first met. In fact, the two of them often argued over how he was to deliver his lines and react during the scenes, which made it rather difficult for the two of them to work together. It is believed that George C. Scott had a real passion for Chess. And coincidentally....so did Kubrick. So one day on set of the film, Kubrick had the idea to win Scott's respect over a game of Chess. Scott accepted, because he considered himself to be a chess master and he prided himself in that. But Kubrick was able to beat him immediately and efficiently, thus winning the tough actor over because he was surprised by Kubrick's skill as a chess player. That being said, Scott swore to never work with Kubrick again.

Real is good. Interesting is better.

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I will be looking forward to your script! Just one question: did you imagine Scott and Van Devere in the lead roles as you wrote the script, or did you have some other actors in mind? I am fine with either, since I have sometimes thought that a remake would be a great idea. I am glad that you are putting in the effort to convert that idea into reality.

I'm glad you found the TV Tropes page interesting. I didn't know the bit about Kubrick winning over Scott by beating him at chess! It's nice to know that Scott admired superior intelligence. I am not a fan of narrow-minded people who are too egoistic to admit someone's talent when they see it. One of the things I like about Scott is that he was surprisingly insightful and articulate and very, very forthright.

I heard about the disagreement between Scott and Kubrick over how he should have played Turgidson. Your version of the disagreement sounds much more credible than the other rumoured version, which claims that Kubrick fooled Scott into playing Turgidson in an over-the-top manner for additional "fun" footage and included those in his final film instead of the serious takes. It would be way too expensive and time consuming for each scene involving a major character to be reshot like this, while fooling the actor into thinking that he is just play-acting for the cast. I think the real story is what you said: Scott disliked the over-the-top aspect but grudgingly decided to follow Kubrick's instructions anyway once Kubrick won his respect.

I'd love it if you could contribute to the TV Tropes page, not only on Scott's page but also on the links to his films (which includes The Changeling). Alternatively, you could tell me what things you would like to see on The Changeling page and I can incorporate the ideas! But don't worry if it isn't your cup of tea - I'll understand. TV Tropes isn't immediately appealing to everyone because of its unusual format and rules. It took me quite some time to get into it.

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Gosh, thank you! Honestly, it's so refreshing to hear that from you! A lot of the people who found out that I was working on a script for a potential remake really disliked the idea or rejected it entirely. I realize that the word "remake" has a bad reputation attached to it but sometimes they can turn out to be pretty spectacular. And I'm doing everything I can so far to make sure it's both faithful to the original and still a unique film in it's own right. So far, it's proven to be quite challenging yet one of the best writing experiences I've ever had. To answer your question, I had pictured a much younger John and Claire in my mind when I was writing it. I may have mentioned this before, but despite Scott's great performance...I do think he's a little old to be a father of a kid that young. But as for actual actors for the roles, I'm really not sure. I hadn't really been thinking that far ahead to be honest! But if we're looking at numbers here...I suppose any actors that are in their late 20's or early 30's would probably do it for me.

Well...that's partially right. But I don't think Kubrick deliberately manipulated Scott. I think he just felt that his over the top gestures suited the tone of the film better. Stanley was not a dishonest man by any means, in fact...if anything he was brutally honest. So it just doesn't add up when people say that he LIED to Scott about what takes he was going to use in the film. But regardless, Scott gave one HELL of a performance in the film I have to say. It's one of my favorites.

Yeah, I'm so sorry. It just isn't really my forte'. I was just trying to help out with my heaps and heaps of film trivia knowledge. Though that doesn't mean I won't take a look! I'll see if I can come up with anything else!

Real is good. Interesting is better.

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How about Liam Neeson? He's kinda old now, but still a good looking guy and a great actor.

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House. My room. Can't walk. My medal. My father. Father, don't!

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Liam Neeson is about the age that I'm thinking of so it's not a bad choice. But I'm just not entirely sure if he could pull off the persona. It's not that he's a bad actor or anything, I just don't know if he would be right for that kind of character.

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I'd probably prefer an actor in his late 30s or early 40s to allow for the protagonist to be old enough to have a 10-year-old child, like John does in the film. But of course, you might like to replace the child with a baby or toddler, or may be it's just the man's wife who is killed in the accident. I think in general, people love their children more strongly once the child is capable of interacting with them. I loved the flashback in The Changeling that showed John's daughter playing "catch" with him. It was so heartbreaking! But of course, for something to be a good remake, you have to be stern and let go of some "favourite" moments so that you can make the work stand out on its own right. So your decision about the actor's age is quite brave but I think it's a good sign that you are prepared to depart from the original in significant ways.

If you would like to visualise a younger version of Scott in the role, you might like to think of him as Dr. Archie Bollen in Petulia, a divorcee with two sons with a gentle and passive manner. I have only seen scenes from the film, but I think the character is inherently likeable in quite a different way to John. He is a "washed-out" version of John, lacking his determination and sense of purpose in life.

As for other actors, I'd love to imagine a younger (35-year-old) Colin Firth as the protagonist. He embodies the same non-stereotypical masculinity and sense of stability that I admire in Scott's John Russell, except that Firth seems more innately harmless and academic. Like Scott, Firth can layer his performance a lot, showing the duality between what one really feels and how one chooses to act outwardly.

Have you thought of Benedict Cumberbatch in the role? He would be a very unconventional choice for a grieving widower with a son, since he comes across as a bit immature in his personality, despite his sophistication and considerable acting abilities. It would be a tremendous departure from Scott but may be he could pull it off!

I like the idea of Liam Neeson in the role, although I have only seen him in Schindler's List. A more exciting option, in my view, would be Ralph Fiennes. I didn't like his performance in Schindler's List but was extremely impressed by his brief appearance in The Hurt Locker. I think he can be riveting.

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Well, those are all very good suggestions! One of the actors that I did think of was Colin Firth. I have the feeling he would play a very good John Russel. I have not heard of the actor you mentioned in Petulia. I'll have to look him up!

It's funny that you should mention him, because Benedict Cumberbatch just happens to be my favorite actor. But I never once imagined that he could play a convincing John Russel. It never even occurred to me. And despite the fact that he is around the age range I'm looking for...he's...how do I say it....too handsome for the part? Or at the very least...too young looking! I think I'd like to go for a more washed up looking character as you put it. Whereas Cumberbatch would seem just too prince-like to play a convincing widowed father. Do you get my meaning?

I think I'd sooner cast Liam Neeson in the role because at least he looks like he could project the same grittiness that Scott did. But Benedict's acting style on the other hand is just SO FAR from that I just couldn't possibly imagine it. Sorry! I would have to see it first to believe he could pull it off.

Real is good. Interesting is better.

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I have not heard of the actor you mentioned in Petulia.
Sorry, my mistake. I meant that the actor was a younger (41-year-old) George C. Scott playing the role of Archie Bollen in Petulia.

I like Benedict Cumberbatch a lot, too! I have seen Sherlock, Hawking, Inseparable and To the Ends of the Earth, and a little bit of Parade's End. He really stands out from the vast majority of actors today. He emanates a sense of continuity with British tradition, on a par with icons like John Gilgeud and Nigel Hawthorne, and yet comes across as being thoroughly modern.

I agree with you that Cumberbatch doesn't seem "right" for the role. But I have a feeling that, just because he is such a talented and intelligent actor, he can surprise us all by giving a brilliant performance as John Russell that is at the same time entirely differently interpreted from Scott's version.

One scene that gives me some encouragement with this conjecture is the moment in Parade's End where Tietjens is lulling his son back to sleep. I caught a glimpse of breathtaking maturity and poignancy in Cumberbatch's characterisation of Tietjens at that moment. It evokes the maturity of a man who is physically extremely powerful and intellectually capable of analysing all his sentiments but can cast all that aside to find a special "gentleness" when dealing with something as small and vulnerable as a frightened child. I think that quality would be incredible in John Russell, especially if we have to highlight why he is so forlorn after his daughter's death.

But I agree that it would be safer to go for someone like Firth instead of Cumberbatch. I just hope Cumberbatch gets some brilliant roles in the near future that will help him out of his somewhat "dandy" image and make him channel the profoundness of his intelligence and character a bit more.

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Oh no, it's not that I doubt his acting skills! He's a terrific actor and all. But it's his IMAGE that makes me skeptical. But now that you say that, I think I can understand why he'd be a good choice. One of the few things that I have NOT seen him in is Parade's End. (I've been meaning to watch it but I just haven't gotten around to it.) What you've said makes me think that I should take a look!

Yeah, I agree but bare in mind that this is only if my script actually gets LOOKED AT...and it probably won't be until quite a few years from now. So for now, we should stick with safer choices but who knows? Maybe good Benny C will take on a role before then that will make me change my mind? Anyways, this has been crazy. I never expected my favorite actor to come up in conversation on The Changeling forums!

On another note, do you think that Nicole Kidman would make a good Claire Norman? I just feel like she's got a similar vibe to her that Trish did. She has a lot of that same aged beauty yet strong elegance that made the first Claire so likeable. I don't know, I just feel like she could be a good fit for the role. But once again, I'm getting ahead of myself.

Real is good. Interesting is better.

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I never expected my favorite actor to come up in conversation on The Changeling forums!
Well, I was frequenting the Sherlock forums almost exclusively before I embarked on a spree of George C. Scott movies. As a result, Cumberbatch was the actor on top of my "preferred list" until Scott displaced him. But that happens all the time with people I admire - the list keeps growing longer and reshuffling itself.

I know it's horribly unfair to compare the two, but right now, I am far more impressed by Scott's directness than Cumberbatch's charm and sophistication. Of late, Cumberbatch's media personality has been striking me as a bit immature. He seems too keen to make his fans happy, and I suspect many of his appearances in shows and sports events are against his better judgment. He hasn't done anything as of now to embarrass himself, but I am afraid that the media will tire of him pretty soon because he is so ubiquitous. That's why I hope he racks up an impressive filmography quite soon. Otherwise, he would be classified more as a celebrity than a star.

The reason I was particularly susceptible to Scott's personality just after becoming a bit disillusioned with Cumberbatch's is probably because they present such a strong contrast - Scott was brutally honest and didn't care about pleasing other people and so had no image to lose; his place among legends is solely because of his acting ability. I hope that Cumberbatch will mature and know his own mind better, so that he doesn't feel compelled to please the media. I would much rather that he commands the media's respect by virtue of becoming the best actor of his generation, which I feel he can. He can be the Daniel Day Lewis of the 2010s and 2020s.

On another note, do you think that Nicole Kidman would make a good Claire Norman?
I haven't really seen Nicole Kidman in a full movie, although I have seen her in clippings of The Others. As such, I am probably not qualified to comment on this. However, I think that if Cumberbatch were to be John Russell, Kidman might be a slight misfit in Claire's role, as she looks a bit more aged and "jaded" than Cumberbatch - that is, if you want to retain the same Claire-John dynamics in your script as in the film. If you want to go for a more mature and independent Claire and a less mature, more reliant John, which is the reverse of the original dynamics, Kidman might work very well!

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Scott is from the older generation, when people were expected to be a bit tougher. Cumberbatch is a product of the modern social everything era.

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House. My room. Can't walk. My medal. My father. Father, don't!

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Scott is from the older generation, when people were expected to be a bit tougher.
Still, Scott stands out for me. As I said in earlier in this thread, I really admire him for the unconventional but more realistic type of masculinity that he represents, especially as John Russell. I love his "don't care" attitude towards the media. He was an extremely flawed individual, but brilliant nonetheless.

I remember when I first watched Patton as a 15-year-old, I disliked him immensely because of how much he swore on screen. I was a bit of a prude. I thought that Scott himself must have been exactly like Patton, which in hindsight shows how convincing his portrayal was.

A few years later, I saw "Anatomy of a Murder" and was absolutely star-struck when I saw Scott in the role of the urbane, brilliant attorney Claude Dancer. I simply couldn't reconcile how one man could be a foul-mouthed, bad-tempered general and also be the embodiment of sophistication in another role. Since then, I have seen A Christmas Carol, The Changeling, Dr. Strangelove and even struggled through Hardcore, and Scott manages to create distinct personalities in each film. I regard him as one of the greatest actors of all times.

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I have to agree with Omegawolf here. I think it's very unfair to compare the two actors because the height of their popularity came around at EXTREMELY different time era's. Qualities that people consider essential of a fine actor have changed over the past 20+ years or so. And while I do agree that sometimes it does appear that Cumberbatch is a bit too eager to please his fans, I think he does so with all the best intentions.

I've always considered Benny C to be a bit of a romantic at heart anyways, so that could also be a part of why he's so charismatic around his fans. But obviously I can't speak of Scott in the same regard because I don't even KNOW him at an actor that well. I've only seen him in two films. Plus, film fans have changed over the past several decades....so like I said, it's a bit of an unfair comparison. I really don't know what else to say about that

I just thought that Kidman has kind of the right "look" to her. I know she can act well enough and I know that I've seen her in a film before...(can't remember the name of it right now.) But I could really see her fitting into the character well. I'm not entirely sure why other than it's just a feeling that I have. And I realize a feeling isn't very much to go on, but at this point...it's all speculation so it doesn't matter much. Though I still say Liam Neeson and Nicole Kidman would make a good match, at least for the image of John Russel and Claire Norman that I originally had in mind.

Real is good. Interesting is better.

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And while I do agree that sometimes it does appear that Cumberbatch is a bit too eager to please his fans, I think he does so with all the best intentions.
I entirely agree with that. I think Cumberbatch is a really nice person. You are spot on to say that he is a romantic at heart. And, objectively speaking, I would much rather be a sober, considerate human being like Cumberbatch as opposed to an alcoholic, ill-tempered and incompatible person like Scott any day.

My concern is that Cumberbatch is becoming a victim to the celebrity culture. Unlike Scott, his fame isn't entirely supported by his filmography: as far as I remember, his only major roles have been Star Trek: Into Darkness and Sherlock. Other leading roles have either not been that well-recognised, or else he has had a minor part. He appears to be riding on the back of a media wave, which is just about to reach its crest. Soon, people will begin to ask: why exactly is he so famous? Then, as it happens, people will tire of him and the media will begin to use a snide tone whenever he is mentioned. Instead of being "the hottest new star", he will be referred to as "the ever-present Mr. Cumberbatch". I don't want to see that happen.

The way he can stop that happening is if he builds up an unquestionable repertoire of major roles that shuts up anyone who questions what he has really done in his career. I really hope that he delivers an Oscar-worthy performance for The Imitation Game, and backs it up with challenging and diverse performances. I would also like him to take more roles on the stage, because, weirdly enough, that's how most (but not all) English actors of "repute" distinguish themselves from the commonplace or "upstarts".

Liam Neeson and Kidman would be perfect! That combination entirely escaped my mind. I also think that Firth and Kidman can potentially create a good onscreen chemistry together. But for that to happen, Firth has to start ageing at a slower rate than he has been.

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Soon, people will begin to ask: why exactly is he so famous? Then, as it happens, people will tire of him and the media will begin to use a snide tone whenever he is mentioned. Instead of being "the hottest new star", he will be referred to as "the ever-present Mr. Cumberbatch".


This is something that has actually worried me a lot. I didn't even think of it until someone I know brought it up and said "Well, I sure hope he's enjoying his star reputation because it's not going to last very long." And what I say to that is: I certainly hope not. Even if Cumberbatch doesn't ever attain the same level of popularity he had during his intense year of 2013, I hope that he at least still remains a favorite among audiences for many more years to come, because I believe he is one of the finest actors that my generation has had the pleasure of viewing.

Yes, I just took a look at their profiles and I could really see them fitting in with those roles! Yes, although Firth is only a few years older than Neeson...I feel like I could really see the latter being able to pull off a washed up, widowed father....he just has the look about him, you know? Even though he's not one of my favorite actors, I really have a good feeling about him! The same goes for Kidman too! If my script ever gets looked at, I'll make sure that those two get called!

Real is good. Interesting is better.

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Liam Neeson and Kidman would be perfect! That combination entirely escaped my mind. I also think that Firth and Kidman can potentially create a good onscreen chemistry together. But for that to happen, Firth has to start ageing at a slower rate than he has been. []


You mean as John and Claire?
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House. My room. Can't walk. My medal. My father. Father, don't!

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Yes!

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My only issue is having a blonde female lead is so cliche.

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House. My room. Can't walk. My medal. My father. Father, don't!

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I fail to see how hair color makes a difference in a role. As long as they can act, that's really all that matters.

Real is good. Interesting is better.

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My only issue is having a blonde female lead is so cliche.
Oh dear, that's discriminatory against blondes and females.

Seriously, the blonde lead who screams her head off when a monster appears is quite a common sight in horror movies. However, I don't think that would matter in Sewaat's remake for two reasons: firstly, Nicole Kidman has reddish blonde hair, and secondly, Claire is an intelligent heroine. By definition, that means a brunette. So it would in fact be a subversion of audience expectations to see a heroine in a horror film who is blonde and intelligent!

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So it would in fact be a subversion of audience expectations to see a heroine in a horror film who is blonde and intelligent!


Exactly! I see absolutely no reason not to include a blonde female in a leading role. And if she's smart, then that would completely break the "dumb blonde" stereotype. Even if the original Claire was brunette, I don't think change in physical appearance is necessarily a bad thing.

Real is good. Interesting is better.

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It's just because blondes tend to be overused.

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House. My room. Can't walk. My medal. My father. Father, don't!

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For the first two scenes in which Van Devere appeared, I was a bit antagonistic towards her character, since it looked like she was determined to make John fall in love with her.


I felt the same way. In one of those scenes she looks up at him from "under her lashes," as they say, in an overly coy way that she intends as seductive. I didn't want it to turn into a cliched romance, and was relieved, when she came over to deliver the prints, that she dropped that type of interaction with him, and was simply going to leave to go about her business and go for a ride.

I thought Van Devere brought more dignity to Claire's character by eliminating the "seductive" aspect of her interaction with John as they became more relaxed and comfortable around each other. It was as if Claire had realised that John wasn't ready for a romantic attachment, and so decided to be happy just being his friend without expecting anything more. That made her character come across as noble and unselfish.


Or she became more sensitive, and likable. I agree about her bringing more dignity to the character that way.

I am thinking in particular of the scene in which she froze after seeing the wheelchair at the top of the staircase. The expression of fear was convincing, but I thought it was a somewhat improbable reaction in real-life.


Thanks for this. My monitor is too dark, and one of my questions was what was it they saw at the top of the stairs? I couldn't make anything out. Now that I know, it doesn't seem very realistic that she'd react with such fear seeing a wheelchair. John, yes, because he'd know he didn't put it there, but not Claire.

Scott always looked more cautious and alert than afraid.


I don't recall the scene, but there was one when he played John as afraid. His breathing becomes visibly fast, facial expression is of contained fear. I thought it was perfect!

I think the film could have been braver and allowed Van Devere to also show more restraint, and so defied the convention of a petrified female lead in a horror film.


I would have preferred that too. Although, as you said, it was made up for some by the ending. I too like to think they went on to develop a successful romantic relationship, but I'm glad they left that to the viewer's imagination.

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A slightly different take on the original question: was there any moment in the film where the acting and/or direction struck a false note? I mentioned this in passing earlier, but for me, the only "questionable" moments were:

1. Russell breaking the lock to the attic using a hammer. It looked really fake to me. Most people would hold on to some support - may be the door frame - with one hand and hammer with the other. He simply let his free hand swing in mid-air. I don't know why they didn't film this scene differently.

2. Claire's emotional outburst after listening to the tape recording of the séance. I didn't understand why she should have been so upset. While what happened to Joseph was shocking, I think the tape only caught a few words, like "Joseph", "father", etc. John saw a vision of what happened and was understandably shaken. But there wasn't any indication that Claire saw it too. So her tears felt like an overreaction, although the acting itself was fine.

3. Russell finding the medal in the well. His expression felt a bit too deadpan.

4. Another moment that was a bit odd (but not necessarily poor acting or direction) was Claire's mother's reaction on meeting John for the first time. She looked like she was forcing herself to be pleasant and that inwardly, she either disliked John or was uncomfortable around him. John seemed to notice this because, while he smiled really politely, his gaze flickered a bit questioningly towards Claire. Or that is how I interpreted it.

Is my lukewarm attitude towards these moments justified or have I missed something?

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The thing with Mrs. Norman was I always thought because John had moved into the Chessman House. Mrs. Norman had obviously seen the house before (It's so... large) and I think was creeped out by the idea of anyone actually living in it.

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House. My room. Can't walk. My medal. My father. Father, don't!

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1. I have no objections to your first "questionable" moment at all. I guess I never really focused on that during the scene but it doesn't distract from the film's direction at all. At least not for me so I can forgive that mistake.

2. I guess this is just my interpretation of it, but I've always felt that the spirit of Joseph was channeling his anger, sadness and pain into both Claire and John. The only difference being is that John saw what happened and Claire did not. Though her emotional reaction I think is valid only because: A) Now she feels guilty for selling the house to John in the first place. B) Most females have a capacity to be more sympathetic towards children and particularly to mourn children who are no longer alive because of their maternal instincts. C) She had NO IDEA that such a terrible thing even happened in that house and the shock of the discovery in itself was probably enough to spur an emotional reaction out of her.
So I've never really seen it as an over reaction at all. I just think that John and Claire responded to the tape in different ways. But because John by that point has had more than his fair share of grief, he's not shaken by it as easily.

3. It's been a while since I've seen the film so forgive me if I'm wrong, but don't most of the shots in that scene consist of over the shoulder or close ups of the dirt/medal? I don't recall the camera ever cutting to his facial reaction more than once during the scene.

4. I don't get any impression of uncomfortableness when it comes to that scene. But typically in the first act of a film things get off ona a bit of a rocky start. Mostly because you have to introduce your characters, setting etc. It's not until the beginning of the 2nd act when things really start to pick up and become interesting.

Real is good. Interesting is better.

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OmegaWolf, I like your explanation for Mrs. Norman's behaviour. Yes, she probably was feeling unnerved by the fact that John had decided to rent the Chessman House. However, that raises an interesting question: did she know something about the House that Claire didn't? Claire seemed to have heard nothing about the haunting. Or may be, Claire did hear some rumours that the house was haunted but dismissed it as idle talk? If so, that would explain why she was so upset once she heard the tape recording. As Sewaat points out, she was probably feeling guilty that John had rented the place at her suggestion.

Sewaat, I agree with your explanation for Claire's reaction to the tape. She was probably affected by how tragic Joseph's backstory was. It's also likely that she was regretting that John was having to re-live the death of another child, given his personal tragedy and what he had told her at Cora's grave, that he couldn't go through another ordeal all over again.

On the other hand, I differ from your view that John wasn't as affected as Claire: he looked nauseated and in fact fainted. I think what really hit John was the realisation that there are some people who can murder their children for profit, whereas he was still reeling over his inability to save his daughter.

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It's also likely that she was regretting that John was having to re-live the death of another child, given his personal tragedy and what he had told her at Cora's grave, that he couldn't go through another ordeal all over again.


Yeah, that's exactly what I thought as well.

Oh no, sorry. I think you misunderstood me. I'm not saying that John didn't react to the tape in an emotional way, but it wasn't to the same extent as Claire's because he's been through all of that before. At least that time around he knew what to expect(or maybe not) but at least he'd seen it before. Whereas Claire was totally unprepared. It does make a difference one way or another, I think at least.

Real is good. Interesting is better.

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OmegaWolf, I like your explanation for Mrs. Norman's behaviour. Yes, she probably was feeling unnerved by the fact that John had decided to rent the Chessman House. However, that raises an interesting question: did she know something about the House that Claire didn't? Claire seemed to have heard nothing about the haunting. Or may be, Claire did hear some rumours that the house was haunted but dismissed it as idle talk? If so, that would explain why she was so upset once she heard the tape recording. As Sewaat points out, she was probably feeling guilty that John had rented the place at her suggestion.


I'm not sure. I don't think she knew anything. I think maybe she had been to the house before and either picked up some creepy vibes from it (similar to the medium, though not on that level) or was just put off by how big, dark and creepy the place was.

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House. My room. Can't walk. My medal. My father. Father, don't!

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Sewaat:

Oh no, sorry. I think you misunderstood me. I'm not saying that John didn't react to the tape in an emotional way, but it wasn't to the same extent as Claire's because he's been through all of that before. At least that time around he knew what to expect(or maybe not) but at least he'd seen it before. Whereas Claire was totally unprepared. It does make a difference one way or another, I think at least.
On reconsidering the situation, I agree with you. Most people would be disoriented if they met with actual proof of something supernatural, because it breaks all the rules of the world around which they build up a sense of certainty and predictability in life. Many would feel that they don't know how to carry on in a world, where nothing they have believed about it so far holds true anymore. Claire's breakdown reflects this, as well as her horror at the tragedy and guilt over the effect this could have on John.

However, as you have pointed out, for John, the sense of disorientation and "topsy-turvy-fication" of his world is not new. The loss of his family was the first event that had caused him to experience this, because it destroyed his sense of certainty and predictability in life. The similarity between his personal tragedy and the situation involving Joseph provides him with an opportunity to "exorcise" his grief and sense of powerlessness over what happened. The similarity is not only the fact that there is a dead child involved whom he would like to help, but also that the supernatural encounter is another of those things that shouldn't be happening to him, but has happened anyway. But, unlike in Kathy and Joanna's death, where his powerlessness to change the event was symbolised by the image of his being trapped in a telephone booth, the injustice of Joseph's death is something that he can help correct. This sense of agency and "potency" is what drives his actions throughout the rest of the film.

However, at the end, he realises that he doesn't really have the power to mete out justice in this case - the changeling is as innocent as Joseph. Then everything is taken out of his control when Joseph decides to take revenge directly. I guess that's why John looks so shattered when he sees Senator Carmichael's body being driven away in the ambulance - this is the second time that he had no influence over what happened. The only positive thing is that he has probably moved on from his grief over his family due to the intensity of this new experience, and that Claire is with him this time.

OmegaWolf:
I'm not sure. I don't think she knew anything. I think maybe she had been to the house before and either picked up some creepy vibes from it (similar to the medium, though not on that level) or was just put off by how big, dark and creepy the place was.
Thanks, that is probably the right explanation.

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However, at the end, he realizes that he doesn't really have the power to mete out justice in this case - the changeling is as innocent as Joseph. Then everything is taken out of his control when Joseph decides to take revenge directly. I guess that's why John looks so shattered when he sees Senator Carmichael's body being driven away in the ambulance - this is the second time that he had no influence over what happened. The only positive thing is that he has probably moved on from his grief over his family due to the intensity of this new experience, and that Claire is with him this time.


Wow. You made some very interesting points there that I didn't consider before. One thing that I do admit irks me is how unresolved the ending feels. And your point only adds to that. We don't really know if Joseph got his revenge or not. Well, he did in the physical sense but the way the film ends it leaves off on a very mysterious note. Is he at rest? Or does he still remain there? We don't know. The film does not address it. But on the one hand, I quite like it when a Director leaves his audience to decide what really happened. It shouldn't ALL be spelled out for you. Still, some reassurance that everything John and Claire did wasn't in vain would have been comforting.

And while I'm on the subject of his revenge, you can look at Joseph's motives in one of two ways: he's the victim in distress and John is the one who's going to put him to rest. Or Joseph is influencing John to be his tool of revenge. I like to think that it's the former, that John is actually helping him on his own volition and not because he's being used by a child's spirit with too much anger inside of him.

Sorry if I'm rambling here but in regards to what you said about John, I do believe that a large part of his character arc has to do with redemption. And I really like how he took on the murder as almost a personal challenge of his own to see if he could redeem himself after suffering the loss of his family. He didn't run away from it, he didn't try to deny it. He confronted it and he didn't stop driving towards his goal until the very end. I think that's another reason why he didn't want the police to be involved because he wanted to prove to himself that he alone could emancipate himself from his grief by ending this little boy's suffering for good. But after all that he does, it doesn't seem to be enough. And that's a really tragic way to end the movie in my opinion. Because as an audience, we wanted John to succeed.

Real is good. Interesting is better.

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I agree that the film has a very "unresolved" feeling about it. In fact, I would say this applies not only to the ending, but the entire film. It touches on many possibilities - like the haunting being interpreted as a redemption for John - but doesn't really explore any of the possibilities as themes. This leaves the audience wanting more, which I guess is part of the film's charm for me.

We don't really know if Joseph got his revenge or not. Well, he did in the physical sense but the way the film ends it leaves off on a very mysterious note.
This is a complex discussion point. There is another thread which asks if Joseph's ghost was evil, and I think that ties in with this. At first, both John and the audience think that Joseph is a poor, innocent victimised child who was denied justice, and who only wants to draw John's attention as a cry for help. However, as the film progresses, Joseph's actions become more and more wilful, vengeful and ill-tempered. He first displays a flash of his temper when John returns after having shown the medal to the Senator at the airport, by slamming all the doors shut. John justifiably snaps at Joseph out of annoyance and frustration. Then, Joseph reacts disproportionately to Captain Drewett's threat to John by killing him. And finally, when John gives up the incriminating evidence to the Senator and returns, Joseph loses all patience with him. Although he spares John and Claire's lives, he burns up all of John's possessions along with the house, and then causes the Senator's death.

I don't know whether this is faulty writing or deliberate moral ambiguity on the part of the writers. But ultimately, Joseph comes off as any other evil vengeful spirit. Usually, such spirits don't find rest in films. The ending with the music box suggests that neither does Joseph.

And while I'm on the subject of his revenge, you can look at Joseph's motives in one of two ways: he's the victim in distress and John is the one who's going to put him to rest. Or Joseph is influencing John to be his tool of revenge. I like to think that it's the former, that John is actually helping him on his own volition and not because he's being used by a child's spirit with too much anger inside of him.
I think John is acting of his own volition, too. The fact that he goes against Joseph's wishes by giving the Senator the evidence suggests that John always retained his judgment and sense of moral balance. I like his character for being strong enough to do this, even though he had chosen to take up Joseph's cause as his means of redemption.

As you say, the ending is tragic in the sense that John's attempt to redeem himself by giving Joseph some closure is unsuccessful. However, what is good is that John never wavers from the right path - he never degenerates into being Joseph's tool for revenge, which a less strong person would probably have done. I think the ending just reinforces the idea that there are some forces in this world - natural or supernatural - that are simply beyond human control. John couldn't have changed his family's death; he can't change the course of Joseph's revenge. But he nonetheless does the best possible thing in the circumstances - he remains his own man and keeps his dignity.

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I don't know whether this is faulty writing or deliberate moral ambiguity on the part of the writers. But ultimately, Joseph comes off as any other evil vengeful spirit. Usually, such spirits don't find rest in films. The ending with the music box suggests that neither does Joseph.


I've seen a lot of threads on this forum, including the one you mentioned...of many people who are just racking their brains trying to decipher the moral psyche of Joseph Carmichael. Is he a victim in all of this? OR is he simply a spirit that has retained the most immature and irrational part of his child-like mind out of malice and anger for his injustice? I've never believed that Joseph's spirit was evil. Not for a second. Yes, his actions and influences are misplaced at times...but as another person pointed out on this forum:

According to the clues given to us by John and Claire's research, Joseph was only six years old when he was murdered. How does a child comprehend his own unlawful death, let alone the years of suffering afterwards? The answer is that he couldn't. So the end of the film is his breaking point. The unleashing of all the rage and pent up anger he had been holding inside of him for nearly 70 years. And he directed it all towards his replacement. Because apart from his own father, I believe Joseph was even more furious with the senator for taking up his name as his own, and living a life of wealth and luxury when it should have been him. It was a personal and deeply unjust theft of his birth right any way you look at it. That's why I always felt one of the simplest but one the most impacting lines in the entire film is: "My name is Joseph Carmichael." because it's the moment when we realize the significance of the figure who is haunting John. It's such a powerful moment in the story it gives me chills every single time.

I always interpreted the scene that you mentioned where John arrives back only to be shut off in a physical and spiritual sense. It's not at all unlike when a child slams the door after a fight with their parents. It's purely out of his own stubbornness and youthful misinterpretation of John's actions that he started to behave in this way. Personally I believe he was getting restless, impatient and annoyed. And worse yet....(this is something that I felt I needed to make clear in my own script of the film) I believe he was scared to death of John leaving like everyone else had. Because if he did, he would be alone for many more years....possibly decades longer and Joseph would not accept that. So his lashing out at him is justified if you believe that it was out of fear and insecurity. But also accompanied by childish nativity.

I do agree with your last point. And it is a little comforting to know that even though in the end the forces of the supernatural were too powerful for John to maintain control over, at least he tried his best. And that's something we can all strive to do for ourselves.

Real is good. Interesting is better.

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You have made some very good points there.

First of all, I would like to clarify something in my previous post: when I used the word "evil", I meant it as a word that is likely to sum up people's opinion of Joseph, as opposed to my own opinion. I don't think that people act in unethical ways because they are evil; quite the opposite, people are classified as evil because of their unethical actions. For me, the more fundamental question is why someone chooses to act unethically - what motivates him or her? Often, it is something like insecurity, defensiveness, self-preservation, envy or arrogance which is at the base of the action. The only people whom I would call "evil" would be the ones who do unethical things because it gives them pleasure - people who are sadists, in other words. I don't think Joseph was sadistic, so I wouldn't call him evil.

I always interpreted the scene that you mentioned where John arrives back only to be shut off in a physical and spiritual sense. It's not at all unlike when a child slams the door after a fight with their parents. It's purely out of his own stubbornness and youthful misinterpretation of John's actions that he started to behave in this way. Personally I believe he was getting restless, impatient and annoyed. And worse yet....(this is something that I felt I needed to make clear in my own script of the film) I believe he was scared to death of John leaving like everyone else had. Because if he did, he would be alone for many more years....possibly decades longer and Joseph would not accept that. So his lashing out at him is justified if you believe that it was out of fear and insecurity. But also accompanied by childish naivity.

I agree with your view on what motivated Joseph's actions. He probably deserves more pity than anything else. However, even though I sympathise with Joseph, I don't believe that he did the right thing in taking revenge as he did. Moreover, I think Joseph expected John to be partisan to the point that he didn't care how the revenge affected other people, as long as it satisfied Joseph. That's pretty much how a spoilt and entitled child thinks his or her parents or friends should behave. John rightly distanced himself from that level of partisanship. However, due to Joseph's greater power, he was unable to stop Joseph.

This could be something that bothers John for a while, because he might think that he failed in his parental role (again), by being unable to dissuade Joseph from a path of destruction. However, what he needs to realise, and probably does eventually, is that some things are beyond his power to change. He is in no way to blame for his daughter's death or Joseph's ultimate actions, especially since he took what seemed to him the best course of action at the time.

I am glad that you are incorporating Joseph's motives more clearly in the script. Just wondering, are you also going to portray John's storyline as an effort to achieve redemption? Or do you have some other theme in mind for him? I am still looking forward to your script, because it sounds like it will be really exciting and insightful! Please let me know when you are ready to share it.

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Oh no, I wasn't saying that you had. But a lot of people on the forums choose to believe that Joseph was an "evil" spirit that was only out for revenge. But revenge is a form of justice when you think about it, so I believe at least...partially his motivations were not altogether wrong. But certainly questionable. Especially towards the end of the film.

Moreover, I think Joseph expected John to be partisan to the point that he didn't care how the revenge affected other people, as long as it satisfied Joseph. That's pretty much how a spoilt and entitled child thinks his or her parents or friends should behave.


Gosh, I never thought of Joseph's motivations like that before. It actually does make a lot of sense, especially when you think about how he chooses to remove John and Claire from the house at the end. And to add on what you said about John failing at his responsibility (or at least from his perspective perhaps) I always think about that subtle moment where he's about to descend the stair case and even though he knows that Joseph is infinitely stronger than him due to his supernatural influence, he has the gal to scold him like a parent to a child who's gone down the wrong path. Your point makes a lot of sense.

I'm so glad that you're looking forward to it! I actually just fixed up the last of the errors a few days ago (sorry, I forgot to ask you about it) so if you'd like to read it, I can send it to you via email. I just need your address. I just hope you aren't dissapointed! You seem to be a huge fan of the original (like myself) so I would hate to let you down.

To answer your question, I kept John's character theme very much the same. The only difference you'll see is that he's much more vocal about what he feels and thinks regarding the murder case and everything afterwards. I would say he's a touch more expressive than Scott's John Russel, but I hope that won't bother you too much. It was a huge challenge to try to make my adaptation both faithful to the original but still add some changes here and there it give it a separate tone. But it's been the most rewarding writing experience of my life by far and I'm so glad you're excited to read it!

Real is good. Interesting is better.

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I have sent you my email address in a private message. To say that I am excited to read your script is an understatement. I'll be delighted to see your treatment of the film, even if it is different from what I would have imagined myself. The reason is simply this: first of all, it's you who have put in the hard work to create a script, and you deserve to treat it in your own way. It's your vision of the characters and their stories. Secondly, as a fan of the film, there is nothing more exciting than finding out what another fan likes about it, because it shows the work in a different perspective from what I have always considered. I'll let you know how I feel about your script once I have read it!

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Thank you so much for showing interest!  I will send it to you ASAP. I have put much time and effort into it so I really hope you can at least appreciate the work. If not, well...at least I tried!  And I completely agree. It's always nice to meet another fan of a film you admire.

Real is good. Interesting is better.

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I have read your script and replied in greater detail in a private message, but in all fairness, I should make a note of it on this thread as well:

It's brilliant!

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I am beyond glad to hear that you're pleased with it!

Real is good. Interesting is better.

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1. Russell breaking the lock to the attic using a hammer. It looked really fake to me. Most people would hold on to some support - may be the door frame - with one hand and hammer with the other. He simply let his free hand swing in mid-air. I don't know why they didn't film this scene differently.


This one doesn't bother me because there was a sense of urgency in getting the door opened, especially after he began hearing the pounding again. It could have worked that way before he began hearing the pounding, I suppose, but visually and psychologically, to me, it would have given off a more leisurely (if you will) quality to the scene.

3. Russell finding the medal in the well. His expression felt a bit too deadpan.


This did bother me. First the medal snaking its way upwards out of the dirt seemed hokey and I didn't like it. Then for there to be no reaction at all on John's part, even though he'd just gone through the dirt with his hands and knew the medal hadn't been there and then suddenly as he looks back, it was … eh. I thought contained surprise would have been in order.

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My take on it is he was so used to weird things happening by now that the medal appearing on its own didn't phase him.

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House. My room. Cant walk. My medal. My father. Father, dont!

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I could buy that if weird things were happening all the time, but they were occasional. If he'd just furrowed his brow for a moment, or did a slight double-take, I think that would have worked better. But, it's a small quibble about an overall excellent movie.

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Ebert was an intelligent man and one of the better film critics, but even an expert can make mistakes and I think his assessment of Scott's work in this film is one of his bigger missteps.

For starters, John Russell's outward stoicism can easily be attributed to a man fighting his way out of the depths of the depression that would naturally follow the tragedy of losing his family so tragically. And as an academic, his natural skepticism would make him unlikely to react with hysterics, or even heightened emotion, especially in the early scenes. As the pressure builds, so does Scott's emotional output; his reaction to what is happening to him reads perfectly for me.

Also, bear in mind that an actor does not create a performance in a vacuum: big star or not, I would imagine that some of George C Scott's performance came from the mind of director Peter Medak, who after all was responsible for the whole overall effect of the film: quiet at first, with the tension building so gradually that the viewer almost does not notice until the shocks come. Medak's touch is sure and is visible throughout the film; the choice to have his John Russell played as the eminently rational professor was, to my mind, one of the things that makes this picture so memorable; Scott provides a contrast to the film's sinister atmosphere, though as a grieving widower and father he is himself brooding in a different way from the haunted house.

Never mess with a middle-aged, Bipolar queen with AIDS and an attitude problem!
roflol (><)

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Personally, I found it to be an intelligent portrayal of an intelligent man. Instead of the typical protagonist in a horror film who becomes a nervous wreck, Scott's character remains calm, collected, and questioning. He doesn't wait for the horror to overpower him - he actively tries to take control of the situation.


I just saw it last night, and that's what immediately stood out to me as well. A very unusual protagonist in a horror/suspense film, and I very much liked that he didn't question his sanity or his senses. He rejects the handyman's explanation of the sounds in a rational way, as it doesn't make sense the sounds would come at exactly the same time two mornings in a row.

He then sensibly goes to the historical society to ask if other former residents had experienced anything out of the norm.

It made the scene with the ball, after he returns from dropping it off the bridge, even more effective, because for the first time his confidence in his sanity and senses is shaken, as it would be.

I also loved how they show him doing his best to go about his day and move on, although he'd only shockingly and horrifyingly lost his wife and daughter, and witnessed their deaths, four or so months prior. The scene at night in his bed, when he breaks down was made even more heartbreaking, and rang very true. Only to have it interrupted by the pounding, which broke him out of it, as it would do.

I liked how it turned to a detective story of sorts, because that's exactly what this character would have done, and what I would have done, myself.

I greatly respected Roger Ebert's opinion, and usually agreed with him, but I disagree on this point because it was such a novel and effective approach.

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I think Scott's character's perceived indifference or impassivity actually adds to the horror.

As he moves through the story, you feel that he is willing to explore any situation, and as the viewer you know the dangers ahead. So the feeling is that you feel more scared for the impending danger and what will happen to a character who seems to blindly square off with supernatural evil.

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