MovieChat Forums > Woyzeck (1979) Discussion > Herzog and water

Herzog and water

posted 17 years ago by Hobgoblin5271
8 replies | jump to latest

Anyone else notice a reoccuring theme in Herzog films with the presence of water? Maybe I'm reading a bit too much into this, but in all the Herzog movies I've seen (with exception of course to his documentary films) there is a strong plot of the characters encountering water, which usually leads to some sort of change. Some examples are: In Woyzeck, the final scene w/the knife, the *entire* film in Aguirre, the characters crossing the ocean in Stroszek, Dracula's boat crossing in Nosferatu (he seems to become a bit more fallable and human after leaving the boat), crossing the ocean in Cobra Verde, etc...

Just curious if anyone had every thought about this.

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] mothboy88 17 years ago

Granted, it's an argument that can be made with any movie, but I think when Herzog has incredibly long takes of water in Aguirre, he's making a connection between the plot and what the water might represent.

And especially, if in multiple movies water coincides with important character arcs, then it's basically proof that water is an intentionally recurring symbol.

And in terms of Grizzly Man, the OP mentioned that docs weren't included in his idea, but really, the Grizzly Man thing works too. Treadwell had lots of footage that Herzog didn't use. Who know how much video was between the darker events and the rain scene? Herzog could have easily edited the film to work that way.

[–] hilton-chris 17 years ago

Agreed. Herzog controls his movies too strictly for the symbolism of water to be an accident.

Seems to me that his use of water is clearly related to his ideas about the natural world in general (see his discussions about the Jungle in "Burden of Dreams")... water is part of nature, and nature embodies the lack of civilization, an inhuman chaos. When his characters encounter water closely, they are seeing into a world without human meanings; they are exposed to the terror that lies before civilization. After that encounter, of course, they are different. This seems to be to be one of his primary themes.

[–] Keenan_Investigates 17 years ago

What about Tarkovsky and water? even more so, I think he uses it (as a symbol?) in all his films

[–] Cass1us 17 years ago

It's an interesting point that I've never really thought about before and reading the previous posts brought two scenes to mind from two other Herzog films.

1. Kasper Hauser looking at his reflection in a barrel of water in a long scene from The Enigma of Kasper Hauser.

and

2. For some of the beginning credits of Stroszek he focuses on a bowl of water used as a spying device inside the prison.

Both scenes are quite calm and quiet suggesting a placidity with the water (which I would argue is also evoked in Aguirre). From an aesthetic point of view I think Herzog just likes the way it looks on film and how it can confuse the audience as they are not really sure what they looking at (in terms of the two scenes I outlined above).

[–] William_Hunt 17 years ago

Incidently, the same has been said about Fellini and water....

[–] pynkpanther 15 years ago

after watching aguirre, woyzeck and fitzcarraldo, i am sold to the idea that the water, whether herzog intends this theory or not, symbolizes the way in which we are to watch the movies. i've noticed that the movies have definite endings but you can also continue watching the movie and not stop just with the ending that herzog serves you. the movies flow so well that they become snippets of the lives of all the characters that were there before we began watching and will continue even after we have stopped.

i simply flow with his movies and feel kinda appreciative that he allows me to be a part of it if even for an hour or two.

[–] pedro4300 15 years ago

How could you not mention "Wild Blue Yonder" which takes place almost entirely underwater! Also, if I'm not mistaken, "Encounters at the End of the World" featured some underwater stuff as well.