Horse tripping? - Tom Horn (1980) Discussion

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] Judimex 14 years ago

I'm pretty sure horse tripping was banned by the studios back in the 50's.

If it harms none, do what thou wilt.

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[–] WarpedRecord 14 years ago

Well, I'm officially confused. I could swear there was a controversy in the '80s that led to the ban on horse tripping in movies and television, but it appears it was outlawed in the '50s.

For some reason I'm thinking "Beastmaster" with Tanya Roberts led to the ban, but now I'm seeing no evidence of that. If it wasn't so late and I wasn't so tired, I'd resolve this now. I know there was some controversy in the '80s over the treatment of horses in films, and I though it involved Tanya Roberts and possibly Arnold Schwarzenegger, or maybe I'm just full of it. Probably both.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] WarpedRecord 14 years ago

Yes, Betty White was involved, as she tends to be about animal rights issues, but it seems the issue was much bigger than just her. It was probably filmed in Europe or elsewhere to circumvent the U.S. law. I'm surprised a cursory Google doesn't reveal the answer. Like so many things these days, I get frustrated when I can't find an instant answer. ;-)

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] bobo-29 13 years ago

The only thing I remember about Tanya Roberts and horses was that in the film 'Sheena' she was supposed to be riding a zebra throughout the film but in reality it was a horse on who they painted black and white stripes. Which in and of itself is animal cruelty lol. Sitting through the film was human cruelty.

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[–] bobo-29 13 years ago

You're referring to the 'Running W'. It was invented by the stuntman and later second unit director Yakima Canutt. A wire and cuffs were attached to horse's forelegs and run through slip rings on the saddle cinch underneath the animal. The wire was anchored to the ground, and when the wire went taut as the horse galloped along, the legs would be pulled up toward his belly, causing a spectacular tumble. The running W is now banned by the American Humane Society but you are somewhat correct in that it was employed as late as 1983 overseas. I can't nail down the exact date the Running W was banned but many of the horse stunt practices began to be banned as far back as 1939, when a horse was killed doing a stunt fall in the Tyrone Power film 'Jesse James'.

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[–] WarpedRecord 13 years ago

Thanks very much for the details, Bobo-29! I didn't know horse-tripping had a name: The Running W. (I assume it's called that because of how the horse looks when it falls on its back?)

Do you remember the controversy in the early '80s where horse-tripping was employed? I'm almost positive it was a Tanya Roberts films, and a Google reveals "Hearts and Armour" from 1982, where apparently a wire is visible:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086074/

I thought it was a bigger film than that one, though.

Also, can you tell if horse tripping is used here in "Tom Horn"? I'm just curious about how they make the horses fall, not protesting the apparent abuse of animals (though it does seem mighty cruel). Thanks for any details.

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[–] bobo-29 13 years ago

I believe the Running W referred to the actual layout of the wires under the horses belly and the shape of the wire when it was attached to the front legs of the horse and the cinch strap of the saddle, forming a 'W' with the 2 tops of the W attached to the front legs of the horse . I haven't watched 'Tom Horn' in a few years but I'm pretty sure there was the AHA disclaimer in the credits " No animals were harmed during the making of this motion picture". So I very much doubt the Running W was used in that film. I did a fast Google and found in the Wiki for Yakima Canutt that the last time it was used was in an Iraqi film in 1983 .. "al-Mas' Ala Al-Kubra" . It's listed on IMDB. There is another way to make a horse fall which is more humane, it involves the rider pulling on a strap attached to a front hoof and running up the leg to the saddle, causing the horse to lose balance but not in the extraordinarily violent way the Running W did. And they're taught to do this stunt with intensive practice and on soft sand. You can spot a Running W when it was employed in a film, the horse looked like it suddenly hit a brick wall. The rider usually used open 'L' shaped stirrups or no stirrups at all or he would have gotten hung up and crushed in the roll. You can spot these stunt stirrups in many westerns if you look carefully.

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[–] WarpedRecord 13 years ago

Thanks again for the details. I have seen old Westerns that clearly used the wires for tripping horses, and if you look closely and freeze, you can see the wires. Often they speed up the action in post-production to make it look like the horse was running, while really it's a moderate gallop. It's still inhumane, though.

For some reason, Tanya Roberts is linked to the horse tripping controversy in my mind. Maybe "Beastmaster" from 1982? I'm coming up blank when I Google, though. It could have been a film where animal rights activists prevented them from employing horse-tripping.

I also saw the disclaimer at the end of this film, so I doubt they used it here, but it looks very realistic. They probably trained the horses well. Today, they'd use CGI, and it would look totally phony. Not that I advocate horse-tripping for audience thrills.

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[–] gus00 12 years ago

The controversy in the 80's was over movies filmed overseas using inhumane techniques then going into wide release in the US. Arnold Schwarzenegger's, 'Conan the Barbarian' (filmed in Spain) was one of the lightening rod movies that was at the heart of the issue.

"Is this how time normally passes? Really...slowly...and in the right order?"

-The Doctor

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[–] WarpedRecord 12 years ago

Thanks for the details. I knew the practice was associated with an Arnold Schwarzenegger film.

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[–] Blubonnet_Spearman 9 years ago

Wouldn't be a good western without horse tripping.

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