MovieChat Forums > Rocky II (1979) Discussion > Stupidest thing about Apollo.

Stupidest thing about Apollo.

posted 10 years ago by Huskie_Jon
33 replies | jump to latest

He had the fight won. His coach even told him so.

All he had to do was cover himself in the 15th round. He could have given Rocky the round, and still won from all rounds he had won previously. But no! He would not be satisfied unless he knocked Rocky out. Then he got knocked out.

In a football analogy, it would be like throwing a pick-6 when you could have gone into victory formation and won the game.

I swear, his giant ego is going to be the death of him.

_______________
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] AdmiralTugBenson 8 years ago

The last thing Apollo wanted was to win by another decision like he did in the first film. His sole motivation in this film was to prove that Rocky just got lucky and silence the critics who claimed Rocky won the fight. As far as Apollo is concerned it was winning by a decision in the first place that caused all of his problems and to do so again would put him right back where he was at the beginning of the film. He'd be in a worse spot actually, because he'd no longer even be able to claim it was just luck if Rocky had gone the distance for 2 fights.

If Apollo had laid back in the 15th he could have kept the belt, but to him and many others it would have been little more than a tie or even a loss. If Apollo just wanted to keep his belt he didn't even have to bother with Rocky again, it wasn't about just technically winning (he'd already done that at the end of Rocky) it was about proving a point and winning decisively.

"Dan Marino should die of gonorrhea and rot in hell. Would you like a cookie son?"

[–] MaximRecoil (4060) 4 years ago

"As far as Apollo is concerned it was winning by a decision in the first place that caused all of his problems and to do so again would put him right back where he was at the beginning of the film."

It wasn't that he won by decision in the first fight, it's that he won by a controversial split decision, meaning one of the three judges decided that Rocky won. The second fight was different. Apollo was way ahead on points, and it would have been a unanimous decision in his favor, and by a large points margin, had he not been KO'd. He would still have to eat his words about his prediction of a quick KO, but at least there wouldn't be anyone who could legitimately argue that he didn't win.

[–] ccr1633 (1414) 4 years ago

"It wasn't that he won by decision in the first fight, it's that he won by a controversial split decision, meaning one of the three judges decided that Rocky won."

It was definitely both. Were it a more resounding split decision in the first fight then Apollo may not have pushed for a rematch, assuming a more tolerable level of post-fight criticism. But Apollo's insistence on knocking Rocky out in the second match, where he would've won a controversy-free decision, proves that getting the knockout was a significant factor.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

Agreed, Apollo's ego,wouldn't allow him to accept anything less than a knockout in the second fight and that was his downfall.

[–] MaximRecoil (4060) 4 years ago

"It was definitely both. Were it a more resounding split decision in the first fight then Apollo may not have pushed for a rematch, assuming a more tolerable level of post-fight criticism."

What's a "resounding split decision"? Winning by split decision is inherently controversial because it means that one of the three judges decided that your opponent won the fight. Had it been a fair, unanimous decision in Apollo's favor, he probably wouldn't have pushed for a rematch. He wouldn't have been happy with an unknown club fighter being the first to go the distance with him, but it wouldn't have been such a big deal without the controversial decision. Most fights are won by decision rather than by KO.

And I know he wanted a KO in the second fight, though that was stupid. He was way ahead on points (unlike in the first fight) and would have easily won by unanimous decision with zero controversy over who won had he followed his trainer's advice in the last round. It's obviously not as satisfying as a KO, but it sure beats being KO'd.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

It's just not who Apollo was though. Prior to Rocky, no one had been able to go the distance with him and now this guy was about to do it twice. Apollo wasn't able to come to terms with this and in his mind had to knock Rocky out which ultimately cost him the fight and the title.

[–] ccr1633 (1414) 4 years ago

I meant a more resounding 3-0 decision.

[–] MaximRecoil (4060) 4 years ago

"I meant a more resounding 3-0 decision."

That's a unanimous decision, not a split decision.

[–] ccr1633 (1414) 4 years ago

"That's a unanimous decision, not a split decision."

I told you I didn't write what I intended. Your drudgery does not change the fact that you're wrong about Apollo. He lost in large part because he unnecessarily went for the knockout. The evidence is strewn all over the film, right from the beginning all the way to the end.

[–] MaximRecoil (4060) 4 years ago

"I told you I didn't write what I intended."

No, you didn't. You simply said, "I meant a more resounding 3-0 decision," which could mean that you thought "a more resounding split decision" could mean "a more resounding 3-0 decision."

"Your drudgery does not change the fact that you're wrong about Apollo."

No, I'm not, and your following sentences show that you don't even know what I said about Apollo, so you couldn't possibly determine that I'm wrong.

"He lost in large part because he unnecessarily went for the knockout. The evidence is strewn all over the film, right from the beginning all the way to the end."

Obviously. I never said, nor even suggested, otherwise.

It's your assertion...

"As far as Apollo is concerned it was winning by a decision in the first place that caused all of his problems and to do so again would put him right back where he was at the beginning of the film."

... that isn't supported by the movie. As I said in the first place, it wasn't that he won by decision "that caused all of his problems," it's that he won by split decision (which is a term you didn't even know the meaning of when you replied to my first post), meaning the fight was so close that there was a valid argument to be made that it should have been a draw or even a loss for Apollo (one of the actual judges even thought Apollo lost).

In the first fight, had Apollo overwhelmingly won on points, thus getting a unanimous decision that no one could legitimately dispute (like he would have done in the second fight had he listened to his trainer), it would have been far less problematic for him, and he probably wouldn't have pushed for a rematch.

[–] ccr1633 (1414) 4 years ago

You're quoting things I didn't write.

[–] MaximRecoil (4060) 4 years ago

Yes, it was AdmiralTugBenson from the old IMDb forums who I quoted, so that was my mistake, but you agreed with his assertion when you replied to my reply to his post.

[–] ccr1633 (1414) 4 years ago

In retrospect, I think we're mostly in agreement than disagreement. Probably I misread your emphasis.

[–] A-zone 8 years ago

In the context of the movie, it wasn't stupid at all.

Apollo won the match in "Rocky I" by decision. Even then, he wasn't overly pleased that this nobody was able to "go the distance" of full 15 rounds with a superb fighter like himself. Then there were the hate mails which accused him of carrying Rocky for the whole 15 rounds. Apollo himself admitted that "he won but didn't beat him (Rocky)".

That is the reason why he wanted a rematch. To demolish Rocky. To knock-out Rocky. If he had just stayed away from Rock and covered himself in the 15th round as you suggest, then he would have won the fight, but he still wouldn't have beaten Rocky. It would have been the same thing from Rocky I all over again. Then there was no point of the rematch at all.

So he HAD to go for a knock out.

"If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you!"

[–] Dark_Sithlord 8 years ago

I always thought the stupidest thing about Apollo was just the opposite of ego: insecurity. His ego and pride were just over compensations for his insecurities.

His bravado seemed to mask a lot of self-doubt. He needs to show the world that he is the best. Doesn't matter if it's true or not, as long as the world believed it. There was a brief scene in Rocky II in which Apollo, away from the media, lights and cameras, on the eve before the fight, looked at himself in the mirror and a picture of Rocky and you could see the self-doubt in his body language. If someone who is as supposedly arrogant and egotistical as Apollo could have such a moment of pause, showed me he wasn't as sure of himself as he projects himself to be.

Just my take on it.

[–] JoanCallas 7 years ago

Holly Holm did the same thing in real,life vs Meisha Tate

[–] rickjames2505-677-364956 7 years ago

yeah I liked apollo more then rocky and wish apollo won.

[–] MovieChatUser497 (18943) 4 years ago

Apollo didn't want Rocky to go the distance with him yet again. He would have rather been KOed himself than just stay away and get saved by the bell. He would have rather lost with honor than won without honor.