MovieChat Forums > Moskva slezam ne verit (1980) Discussion > Question for Muscovites...

Question for Muscovites...

posted 13 years ago by nitejrny282
6 replies | jump to latest

A friend of mine, born and raised in Russia, recommended this brilliant film to me, claiming it was an accurate portrayal of the unique issues that men and women in Moscow still struggle with today.

Even after all the social and political changes over the last 20 years, very little has changed when it comes to the cultural battle of the sexes. At least according to my friend.

But even after seeing this film, I still had my doubts. Maybe my friend is just sexist, or old fashioned.

If I had never been to the United States before, and I saw the television drama "Mad Men" I would think every American male was a philandering alcoholic, and every female valued herself solely on her physical beauty and sexuality. But being an American, I am aware that the culture portrayed in the show is long gone, which is why the show is so fascinating to watch.

So I am asking any Russians out there - male or female, young or old, Muscovite or elsewhere - do you think the issues portrayed in this film still exist there today?

Here are a few themes from the film. Feel free to dispute or confirm them in terms of today's Moscow...

1.) No matter how beautiful, intellectual or sophisticated a Russian woman is, she will always see herself as a commodity for men. Even the most beautiful, talented and wealthiest of girls in Moscow will still value themselves as a commodity... just a more valuable commodity than the rest.

2.) While there are an abundance of smart beautiful women in Moscow, a good man is hard to find.

3.) Most of the men in Moscow drink too much and are unreliable.

4.) Since good men know how scarce they are, they will take advantage of their valued position by letting themselves go, cheating, or even leaving their wives for younger women... ultimately proving that even the good ones aren't so good.

5.) A woman can be more successful, have more degrees, make more money than her man... so long as she cooks him dinner, s***s his c**k and respects the fact that he is the man. (Personally, I agree with this one. Except for the cooking part. I could let that slide.)

Again, I know these are stereotypes. But that's why I want to hear the opinion of a Russian who actually lives in Russia.

[–] Chanel69 13 years ago

I think it's kind of hyperbolized but yes it's partly true, I'm from russian origins and I can tell that a man feel undermined when his lady makes more money than him. They drink a lot but are hardworker and never drink during working time. And yes lot of good guys as very healthy and caring they are can easily becomes alcoholics as soon as they swallow one drink. And usually the woman does cooks not the man. I'm russian but live in france so sorry for my grammar

[–] truebloodphoto 13 years ago

Wow! Thank you so much for your reply! And your grammar is more than fine. How long since you lived in Russia? Do you think this attitude is still the norm in general like my friend tells me? How do you think a woman would explain it? I've only heard the male perspective. Which may be part of why I feel like I'mnott getting the whole story.

Also, I just read today about a common, albeit unscientific, belief in Russia that the root of Russian woman being at a disadvantage to men is because so many Russian men died during world war II (I believe it 20 million?) and that it left an unprecidented imbalance in the male to female population ratio, that the men who did survive the war returned with their choice of the most beautiful women in the country who would normally be out of their league. Thus leading to generations where mostly the beautiful women were the ones having babies while the less physically attractive women were sadly left without a man at all and unable to pass on their less physically attractive genes.

The results? A sense of entitlement for men that continues even though such extreme ratios no longer exists. And beautiful looking women tend to have beautiful looking babies, creating generations of beautiful carrying over until today.

[–] Chanel69 13 years ago

hi, I never lived in russia but my parents are 100% russian and I'm fluent in russian too. I'm a woman and I can tell that many couples live that way but I doubt they suffer because it's not as extreme as you might think there is a mutual respect and some situations where the woman opinion dominate. Especially when it comes to children education and apartment equipment. And haha no, uglier women don't end up alone, russian men are not that shallow. often beautiful women are attracted only by money and they mary some ugly pathetic dudes just because they own a car. And a good russian man always prefer a strong woman with a high self esteem and a wide culture. :)

[–] vikulya78-103-135099 12 years ago

Well, I have to say that your conclusions are skewed and primarily because, as someone has mentioned already, you never lived in Russia/USSR.

Generally, I have to say that women in Russia do tend to be more dependent on men than in most of the Western world. On the other hand, the film was made in 1979 and in those days the situation was a bit different from what it is now.

Girls/women in big cities (especially Moscow)are increasingly more independent now and they don't necessarily need a man to make them happy or fulfilled. Among many of my friends/acquiantances, girls make more money than some men and they don't look upon themselves as a commodity. They would not give up their lifestyle, just to be with a man/to please a man.

In the SOviet days there was more stigma attached to an unmarried woman, especially a single mother. So a woman like Katerina would not feel completely comfortable in that kind of society, no matter how impressive her other achievments may have been.

Another important moment to bear in mind is the gender imbalance. I don't know if it still is the aftermath of WW2, but it's a well-known fact: there is a notable lack of men in Russia. As women outnumber men, their chances of finding a high quality mate are minimal. You can take it as one of the reasons that Katerina and women like her found themselves in the position that they were in.

On the last note, I have to say that Russia has never been a truly Western state. It's destined to mediate between East and West and that is inevitably reflected in people's mentality. Which means that even today, you can happen upon women who do need a man just to feel superior over other women (especially those that are still not married). It's a status thing and is still prevalent in Russia. The number of women feeling and behaving this way is significantly lower than 30 years ago, though.

[–] nitejrny282 12 years ago

Thanks for your input. And yes, it was me who said I'd never been to Russia. These generalities came from my friend who grew up there. Which is why I was skeptical and wanted other opinions. These are all great responses!

[–] vikulya78-103-135099 12 years ago

Always welcome!

I grew up in Russia/USSR; although I have lived abroad for the last 7 years, I visit regularly.

Your friend may have their own perspective on the state of things in the USSR; as a matter of fact, I know that some Russians who emigrate often remain rather negative about their country. I never completely understood this but then we all have different experiences and backgrounds, so who knows...