MovieChat Forums > Kramer vs. Kramer (1979) Discussion > Did Joanna ever TRY...

Did Joanna ever TRY...

posted 10 years ago by puplover
13 replies | jump to latest

to talk to Ted before. Did she say: "I am thinking of leaving you?" Or anything before the opening when she walks out?

The character was written so passive-aggressively. Why? From today's perspective, its almost like watching a pre-cursor to Andrea Yates or Susan Smith. She seems as if she would end up losing it: totally non-communicative and impulsive. I can't stand her and I'm a woman.

Thoughts?

Love this movie. Dustin Hoffman is perfection. Just perfection in this. Better than Ratzo Rizzo, imo.

[–] jayhn1111 10 years ago

The defenders of her character seem to be under the impression that she consistently tried on a regular basis to tell him how she felt and he completely ignored her. I saw no evidence of that whatsoever in this movie. The fact that he was left in shock after she walked out says it all

[–] johnston.scot 10 years ago

My impression, just based on what we see in the movie - mostly his reaction, which you mention, and also her demeanor - is that it's the first time she's talked directly about it. This is consistent with her character, at least the version of it at the beginning. She's totally passive, unassertive and uncommunicative.

I think a defense (or attempted defense) of her character would be that, though she never explicitly said she was thinking about leaving, it should have at least been obvious to him that she was depressed and uncommunicative. Whether that's a sufficient defense, I'll leave to others. The corresponding "prosecution argument" against him would be that he was so self-absorbed that he didn't care about - or even notice - the state of her happiness, so long as he was getting fed, doing well at work, etc.

I don't know that the right way to look at it is as an exercise in assigning responsibility, but just explaining what happened.

[–] TheJoker_3 10 years ago

I wondered that, too. I mean, she could have told him some time, I mean, like even while in bed before they drift off to sleep or when waking up on a Sunday morning. He can't have been busy 24/7, he had to eat, sleep, shower, watch tv etc sometime. It certainly seemed like it was the first he heard of it, so I feel that, no she didn't try to tell him before.

[–] Ditto-head 10 years ago

They don't show it in the movie, and I don't remember it even being mentioned later on. In the book she brought it up a lot- being bored at home, wanting to work again, etc, but she still came off as an immature, spoiled brat who used her complaints to justify walking out on her son.

[–] stuman201 10 years ago

I read the novel a while ago and, as I can recall, the entire first chapter is all about how unhappy Joanna was in the marriage and as a mother. I recall a quote that I will terribly paraphrase: "Joanna was there to hold Billy but no one was there to hold Joanna."

Obviously the movie has to oversimplify the situation for the sake of setting up the plot (or 'call to action' to be a hero's journey snob). When Ted comes home at the beginning of the film, he talks nonstop, completely oblivious to Joanna's presence, even when she tells him she's leaving. It's hard to watch. It's like "Ted! Shut the hell up for one second!" I think that sums up what their relationship has been for a long time.

[–] fairy_depp 10 years ago

I got the impression that she had tried to speak to him about it before.. At least subtly. Ted didn't listen when she told him that she was leaving him so I can believe she probably had spoken to him before and he'd just shrugged it off. And in court she says that she told him she wanted to get out and get a job and he'd shrugged that off too. She could probably have been more obvious but I definitely think she spoke to him about it before the start of the film

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Jes' Sayin' (5954) 3 years ago

At the trial Ted himself admits that many times she tried to reach him and he wasn't there for her, so yes, even the Ted character says so.

[–] Otter (24464) 3 years ago

It's been a long time since I've seen the movie, but doesn't it basically start with her leaving? Thereby skipping everything that led up to her walking out?

If so, then we're just speculating and making assumptions based on our own experience. And my observations of heterosexuals and Hoffman's persona tell me that she told him over and over that she was unhappy and thinking of leaving, and none of it registered until she actually left.