MovieChat Forums > Head Over Heels (1982) Discussion > Anyone uncomfortable with the 'rape' and...

Anyone uncomfortable with the 'rape' and 'beat the * out of' comments?


I think this movie is so great, particularly for being
edgy enough to take the risks of leaving those comments
in the movie.

The ones I'm talking about are when Charles and Laura
are falling apart and Charles is getting jealous, and
says he is going to rape Laura, or that he is going to
beat the * out of her and her gynacologist.

That is some uncomfortable but pretty funny in an
absurd way stuff.

What thoughts do other people have on that?

How close is it for someone to think, say or do something
like that. Are men really like that? They sure are not
kidding in Iraq these days, they are killing hundreds of
women in order to terrrorize them into wearing the headscarf
and not wearing make up? Women's lib? Comments?

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I just thought that it was part of Charle's sense of humor/'60 generation sensibilities. Remember his craziness about the article about Frank Zappa taking a sh!t on stage when he was in Laura and hubby's A-frame. He never did hurt or hit her, but I think he was so into her, and Laura wasn't as into him and didn't want to commit. I think she was so unresponsive to him that he was trying to get a rise out of her.

Your first thought when you hear a guy tell you something like that is run, run far away. But in a twisted way, I think it proved his love and devotion to her--and if you knew the guy, you knew he was joking. But he did himself no favors by saying things like that to her. I thought it was funny when she told him there are some things she likes to do by herself--one of those is go to the gynecologist.

And when I'm sittin' real close to the wide, wide screen, I feel like it's happening to me

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This is indeed a line that I wish was not in the film, it wasn't in the book.
I hate it, because it is the one thing that cast a bad light on his character,
I think plenty of people no longer wish him to get Laura based on that event.

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I think it was meant to show that everyone has their
a-hole side, and to be any less a-holish would not have
made that point. But, in your mind does that moment
show Charles to be unacceptable as a human being.

After all, he is using threats of violence, even if
he was joking, and stalking Laura to obsession.

To me it made the movie very realistic and deep
which took a lot of guts, and probably explains
why it was not written or directed by a male.

I think the genius of this movie was to tell it
like it is between men and women, somtimes, and
then end without a happy ending.

I can really relate to Charles at the end. The
way things unravelled, he figured it out that he
had to get on with his life, and the running in
the part was part of that.

It's funny in real life, that liberation, from
someone else, or even one's self does not come
easily, or always at the right moment, but if you
are lucky it does come and you move on.

I don't know of a single other movie that shows
that like this movie.

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I didn't remember that in the book either, and I'm surprised it was in this film. He comes across as a bit stalkerish in that scene, and it seems out of character for him. I wonder why they chose to add that line?

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I think that line is brilliant, and it makes the differential from the book ... if it was not in the book, it makes the movie separate and independent ... not to mention edgey and truthful. This movie was as in your face as they come, it toed no line, cut no corners and pulled no punches, it was perfect. There is so much to see and think about and talk about, and the movie does not takes sides, it just lays it out there.

I wonder if there are any interviews that exist online of the directory or author talking about this movie, and where it came from, and why they thought of making it. I remember when it came out and I probably would never have heard of it if Gene Siskel and Roger Ebert had not both given it thumbs up. I would never take Roger Ebert's advice now, but he was 100% right on this.

Now he is just a tool of Hollywood playing the game.

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just read some of Beattie's short stories and then the novel and you'll see where the characters and story came from.
Distortions
Secrets and Surprises
The Burning House.

She was doing so well with the short stories in magazines and paperback, it was time for a full novel, which was her first one, and an extentsion of similar characters and situations she wrote about.

She's wrote so much since then and gone off in different ideas (which is good)

there was an article once in a trade magazine, but it was mainly about how to get a little movie like that produced. they did talk about the endings, and test audiences and re-shooting the new ending before it went to HBO etc. Don't know if that is on line.

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I am so glad the movie was just as it was ... a sappy Hollywood sugary ending gotten by polling people ... the very idea makes me want to puke.

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the test audiences voted for the current ending, Charles moving on.

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Oh ... thanks .. what a relief!

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It sort of explains his character and why she really didn't want to be with him in the end. He had his good sides but he also was an *beep* of sorts and had a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde type of personality.

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Yeah, but so did she, and so does everyone. You wait and go crazy until finally accepting what you have to do and moving on. I don't know of any other movie that has such an inspiring or personal vision of human experience and growth ... that is why this is one of my top few movies, I just love that someone had the vision and creativity to create this, and every time I watch it again I enjoy it.

When I first saw this movie I was myself had recently gone through a breakup, and it was really inspiring for me in the sense that I felt validated and a kind of resonance with this movie that I have with very few other movies. Thankfully I was not quite a crazy as Charles, nor did I carry on for quite as long! ;-)

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Yep!

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First off, it was 1979, when the Hemingway-rooted machismo of Norman Mailer was in full flower, or just beginning to wilt under on the vine as hot-house feminism flowered more. Taken in context of the "rape joke" of PLAY IT AGAIN SAM, his comments -- and his stalking -- were not the stand-out, over the top moments that they are today, 33 years later. His stalking would be considered, even then, a testament to his love, not a psychopathia.

Now, I realize how disturbed Charles is. He doesn't want to go crazy, he tells Laura (who is dodging him) in the end, and we the audience knew even in '79 that Charles was haunted by his mother's mental illness. He was weird, even for '79. Starting to watch it again in the early part of this century, when it made the cable movie stations, one begins to realize something is profoundly wrong with Charles. Laura is a possession in a way, like the chair they playfully bicker over ("It's mine," Charles says).

I think it took a woman director to bring this out. But she didn't hit us over the head with it. Flatly stated, Charles if f#@%ed up.

-------------------------------------------------
"Why do people always laugh in the wrong places?"
--Mrs. Delillo

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Nice analysis … and yes, there is something wrong with Charles, like he says, he is a regular nice boring dull guy … and the same with Laura, they both needed to not just settle for someone to waste time with - which is what Laura ended up doing in the end, but that is not for the average guy. This movie can operate brilliantly and coherently on several different levels, but in the end the movie is about the individual having to figure out how to move on in life on their own, because really, no one else can do it. Another odd thing was the lack of family in Laura's life or past, no mother or father and few friends … she had her own problems … and why would Charles really think she was so great unless he just wanted to find someone to sort of waste time with?

Charles is f-ed up, but so is everyone … and in life everyone is more or less screwed up, except maybe his sister and the doctor … you just have to deal with it head on. That a woman director and writer did this is really a testament to genius in my view … I have seen this movie maybe 20-30 times and each time it amazes me in some new way.

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Your comments are vivid, and they reminded me of many, many other characters Anne Beattie created. I was reminded of one of her other novels, that would have been a challenge to make into a screen play, let alone a movie, Falling In Place.
Then I found an article about it, AND her chracters.
http://www.nytimes.com/books/98/06/28/specials/beattie-falling.html

Falling in Place was different than Chilly Scenes Of Winter, I didn't care about the characters as people as much as I did Charles, Sam, and Laura etc.
But still a good read.

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Can't access your link, it requires a login.

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weird I must have got in a back way, I typed in Falling In Place Anne Beattie in Google. and it went to it, but when I click on the link I get blocked too.

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Again this shows what the frustration of a broken relationship will do to you, make a normal level headed guy say things crazy and totally inappropriate..
It's troubling and so wrong and I think that's point his outburst illustrates

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That sound reasonable. I always wondered what was going on with Laura, and why was she so miserable and depressed with low self esteem?

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Yikes, I made this comment 15 years ago!

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Every winter I re-watch this movie, and get something new out of it each time. Why is Charles so ridiculously possessive of Laura to the point of driving her away? It seems he could have been a great catch...a good looking guy with a decent job who owned his own home. But unfortunately he is unstable, and has terrible sides of his personality. (And I'm glad that Laura didn't decide to just "settle" for him the way she did when she married Ox.)

Why is Charles the way he is? Will he ever change?

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I have a long history with this movie.
I saw it in the theater when it came out, as recommended by Siskel and Ebert.
Back in prehistoric times when they projected movie by lantern light.
I saw a lot of myself in the Charles character and it really woke me up.
I was breaking up with a girlfriend at the time, and it kind of slapped me in the face and woke me up.

I think Charles was obsessed with Laura because he is just one of those people who is picky, more than he should be, very lonely, possibly - maybe more than possibly, depressed, and got caught in the image of himself being who he wanted to be in his "meet cute" with Laura in the document room, or whatever that was. I think something came over him and he was alone with a beautiful woman that he found attractive with nothing to lose, so he winged it, and won ... "well, then, we'll have to disregard it". That was a great scene, and anyone who in their life improvised that creates a bond. Charles was the best of himself in that moment and derived a great deal of confidence ... but it was dependent on Laura. So when Laura "stroked" him, i.e. they had a good memory he was pumped up. When she was not dependable he got pissy demanding.

This also explains why Laura had a completely different take on the situation. Obviously she liked Charles because he was a fun distraction from her own problems and depression, but her obsession was with family life, and kind of shrinking into the woodwork, and Charles was not a big enough figure to disappear behind.

Charles was wrong when he said "it's not a race, it doesn't matter who got there first". He could not catch up with a family, and even though he had a house, he was a mess and not strong enough male to attract Laura really.

The genius of this movie is evident by its solid foundation in a very logical and human story told perfectly, if a bit uncomfortably.

Also, notice in the movie we never really see passionate sex between the two. It is glanced over. I usually criticize movies for being gratuitous in the sex scenes, but there was a point in the absense in this movie.

This movie was incredibly literary. If I ever run across the book I think I might take a look at it.

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The Janis Joplin song highlighted in the movie, "Get It While You Can," is a great theme for their relationship because there weren't perfect for each other, but they were both needing someone at that moment. Then as time passed, Laura became the center of Charles' universe. The opposite happened for Laura, who determined that he had too many personality issues she couldn't deal with, even though she cared about him a lot.

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If I had to guess I'd say that comments leads me to believe you are female. Is that right?

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