MovieChat Forums > Apocalypse Now (1979) Discussion > Playmates at Base

Playmates at Base

posted 8 years ago by scorsaro-39016
15 replies | jump to latest

For the life of me, I have no idea what's going on here or the significance of the scene...other than to perpetuate the insanity of the subject matter.

Why were the women there, relatively unguarded and left for the wolves? To me, this is another "bridge scene" that leaves me thinking, "What is going on here? This is crazy."

The difference between this scene and the bridge scene is that I know what's going on in the bridge scene and what it's trying to convey. I'm interested to know what other people think about it and what Coppola was trying to say.

[–] Steadybox 8 years ago

Why were the women there, relatively unguarded and left for the wolves?

Maybe they were supposed to do another show there, and expected to get more fuel from the base, but since they didn't have any fuel there, they got stranded out there.

[–] scorsaro-39016 8 years ago

I don't know. Hard to accept that explanation given the way the others were choppered out at the first sign of unrest during the USO show.

Like I said, I think it's just a scene to reinforce the sense of chaos...maybe there's no explanation.

[–] Steadybox 8 years ago

Like I said, I think it's just a scene to reinforce the sense of chaos...maybe there's no explanation.

Yeah, maybe.

[–] Lester_Burnham_Risen 8 years ago

Hard to accept that explanation given the way the others were choppered out at the first sign of unrest during the USO show.

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This WAS that same chopper and same gals - they could not get back to Saigon because of cyclone and were holed up at canvas hospital with no fuel.

FFC included it to simply show that under the surface in all this madness there were just "normal boys and girls" as he says

http://www.kindleflippages.com/ablog/

[–] scorsaro-39016 8 years ago

Ah! Good insight and source material!

I guess, since it's his movie, I'll accept that explanation. To me though, the "under the madness...just being normal" narrative is a little puzzling because that whole scene to me was madness.The body in the coffin, the jabbering bird lady, no leadership etc.

I just figured that the "highly prized" playmates would be under lock and key in that situation and not left abandoned in some purgatory hell.

[–] Lester_Burnham_Risen 8 years ago

whole scene to me was madness

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The whole "war" was madness, THAT was the point of the movie

I was there unfortunately and can say FFC got it spot on

http://www.kindleflippages.com/ablog/

[–] sparker21 8 years ago

I think you have hit upon a reason why that scene was not used in the original release.

[–] atapj 8 years ago

Recently re-watched Redux after 15 years and was left wondering about the playmate (Linda Carpenter?) left out of the rainy base sequence. It seems that you see Bill Graham's promoter character beckoning Willard from a tent where you presume they negotiate the fuel/girls swap.
Given the dismal acting qualities of the other two girls (especially the one with Lance), I doubt if anything would have been added (other than the flesh factor) by including a third girl.
Also curious if any further references to Kilgore's stolen surfboard appear? In the original version there's a brief shot (right before Chef/Willard set off in search of mangos) of the PBR stern where a board stenciled with Lt. Col Kilgore is visible.

[–] criztu 8 years ago

Why were the women there, relatively unguarded and left for the wolves?

The story is an ascension; jump to point 6 to read about the playboy bunnies.

1. we first meet Willard inside the womb that was his hotel room, The Doors' song The End, fades away at "all the children are insane".
2. he is forced out into this world, blood on his head and body, an incoherent baby.
3. he is institutionalized and set on the path to kill someone important, a great enemy of the martial structure that has power over Willard; the declared purpose of this martial structure, this war machine, is peace and schit.

Willard then progresses through the intestines of this power structure:

4. general Bill Kill Gore is the immature stage, the adolescent, who experiences reality from afar, with pompous fanfare music, pubescent rituals - like the playing cards, the surf boards and fancy hats, guitar songs around the fire after the helicopter strut; as Jay 'Chef' Hicks puts it later, when they face the tiger: "-I didn't get out of the goddamn eighth grade for this kind of schit!"

5. then the tiger initiates the ripping apart of the fabric of this idealized image of reality manufactured by the power structure, by the Establishment; the four aids assigned to Willard, are shocked by glimpses of truth.
6. we meet the playboy bunnies, who have been converted into fetishes, objects of desire, controlled by the Establishment, fantasies displayed in a dazzling spectacle for the many young males over whom the Establishment exercises power, sent just like Willard, to kill the enemy.
7. next we get to know the real persons beyond the playboy bunny mask, this is the marriage stage; the girls are fallen angels, imprisoned in a playboy helicopter, stranded in desolation, fantasizing about beautiful, innocent boys; blood dripping out from their prison, the dead body of a beautiful, innocent boy, locked in a coffer.

8. we reach the end of the Establishment's domain, the bridge is the beast's sphincter, as put by the lieutenant Carlsen, who brings mail for the boat. Beyond the bridge, Willard is no longer inside the Establishment.
9. the 4 aids assigned to Willard, die one by one, each death comes closer to the truth - while the 1st aid is buried with honors and flags and ceremony, the death of the 3rd aid is blunt - a severed head is laid down in Willard's lap by Kurtz.
10. At the French farm, Willard experiences Love/Death, the French widow - a real woman, not a fetish - tells him through the shrouds - "there's two of you".

11. the other one is Kurtz, a god in an alien realm, an altogether different beast than the Establishment.
12. at this point - in Kurtz' custody, Willard is completely separated from the Establishment and its fabricated ideals about reality.
13. Willard connects with Kurtz, against the orders of the Establishment, and has a revelation - the true meaning of "apocalypse" is 'revelation, insight'. the meaning of 'cataclysmic event' is a corruption!

Kurtz is the true, the divine, Willard.

The Establishment wants Willard to kill what is truth, what is divine inside him. Willard disobeys, and connects with the divine. Willard is now God, because God is truth.

note that I'm not a religious person, I'm only deciphering what Coppola is painting in this movie.

[–] discofreestyle 8 years ago

An almost impossible comment to read.

Put down the 'Dummies Guide to Anarchy and Socialism' stop going on and on about 'The Establishment' and open your eyes to the possibility that there might just be a bit more to life than your conspiracy theories and various other fantastical nonsense.

the most worrying thing about you people is your absolute conviction of your own superior knowledge of a subject, even though the only thing you ever bring to a discussion is some Alex Jones style twaddle.

It's so dull i'd genuinely rather watch paint dry than read any more of that rubbish.

[–] DepheatingRub 7 years ago

I never encountered this comment before. Fascinating, a very specific and personal interpretation. Good stuff.

[–] criztu 7 years ago

Fascinating, a very specific and personal interpretation.

It's not a personal interpretation. It is a decoding of gnostic symbolism. Google "Apocalypse now tarot" and you will find a detailed comparison of esoteric symbols with scenes in Aocalypse Now.

Coppola, like many others - David Lynch, Ridley Scott, George Miller, Darren Aronofsky, etc., are commissioned to represent the doctrine of their clients.

Think of Coppola as a Michelangelo doing the Sistine Chapel. There's a fresco representing a dude with a white beard, touching another, young, dude's finger, with his finger.
We all know those two dudes are God and Adam.

But to a Chinese or African guys who never heard of Christianity, those dudes painted by Michelangelo are just that, an old dude and a young dude touching each other's fingers...

[–] WeAintFoundShin 8 years ago

For one thing we get to see the excess of American military entertainment, versus the "simple" Vietnamese looking in from beyond the fence behind the American audience.

[–] Abner_Kadabner 7 years ago

The Playmate sequence wasn't complete. They never filmed the third part with the third Playmate Linda Beatty (Miss August 1976), because the typhoon stopped production for several months and when it finally started back, Coppola decided to move on and never filmed it. This is a shame, as her sequence was for her to read tarot cards, and she would do a reading for Williard in which she would predict some of the things that would come true as the movie progressed.

By the way, Lynda Carter was originally going to be one of the Playmates. However, she told Coppola that she was up for Wonder Woman, and since he didn't want to stand in her way, he let her go. She was replaced by Colleen Camp. Since Colleen was the woman who posed topless for the ersatz centerfold Chef covets, I wonder if Lynda was supposed to be the one topless. (And I wonder if they actually did topless photos of her).

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Everyone may have an opinion but very few seem to have an informed one.

[–] si-ga-sahab 7 years ago

I wonder if Lynda[Carter] was supposed to be the one topless. (And I wonder if they actually did topless photos of her).

Well, it's a shame that line of enquiry is going to disappear with the boards!