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Was Dallas hideously incompetent as a captain?

posted 3 years ago by TMC-4 (19416)
28 replies | jump to latest

1. He landed his ship to investigate a purported distress signal without properly identifying if it is indeed a distress call

2. He didn’t scan the planet’s surface from orbit (A capability that they shown as having available to them as they were able to detect the location of the vessel “in distress”) -

3. He didn’t cut short the “rescue mission” when it was clear that there was no one to “rescue”

4. He didn’t fix the ship

5. Not quarantining Kane, even after the facehugger fell off

In short, Dallas violated the basic operating procedures that his company demanded that he follow, brought an unknown organism onboard thus exposing his crew to multiple dangers, and then when faced with the alien danger, he didn’t shutoff areas where it might have been hidden to isolate it from the rest of the vessel.

https://www.quora.com/Was-Dallas-a-bad-captain-in-Alien/answer/Jon-Mixon-1

[–] TerraFirma69 (1925) 3 years ago

Like many spacefaring sci fi movies, no bumbling idiot crew = no movie.

[–] brux (14666) 3 years ago

A movie or TV show is bad to the exact extent that it/they rely on their characters being stupid and doing things even an idiot would not do. ;-)

[–] moviechatterer (13297) 3 years ago

True (if i understand correctly)
How much plot is moved on by unrealistically stupid decisions is an index of how bad the writing is.

That Android (and the rest of the crew) in Prometheus springs to mind - running around in unexplored home of 'the gods' just flipping switches like a 3 year old.

[–] TerraFirma69 (1925) 3 years ago

Yep, a classic example. Removing helmets, getting lost (the mapmaker no less), and pissing about with an utterly unknown alien snake-thing like they're at a f*cking petting zoo.

[–] JestersDead (485) 3 years ago

Haha that's so true. I almost walked out of the film at that point. Any normal person would've run a country mile when confronted by a black alien serpent.

[–] brux (14666) 3 years ago

This is a good subject.

> 1. He landed his ship to investigate a purported distress signal without properly identify if it is indeed a distress call

I thought the main point was that they must serve as humanity's ambassadors if they ran into any extraterrestrial contacts, in this case it would have been the first.

> 2. He didn’t scan the planet’s surface from orbit

This is a big deal to me, but mostly because Alien did what almost all science fiction does, that is it does not consider the what the developments of the future, in Alien's case some 400 years. Looking at our current rate of technological progress it seems ridiculous they want they portrayed advances in technology in the movie Alien.

> 3. He didn’t cut short the “rescue mission” when it was clear that there was no one to “rescue”

Well, after Kane got infected things moved too fast.

> 4. He didn’t fix the ship

Well, I guess good enough he fixed it, to get moving.

> 5. Not quarantining Kane, even after the facehugger fell off

Yeah, that was pretty obvious. Just wishful thinking that Kane was OK.

If they did this story again, and they even should have applied some basic simple logic and obvious protocols to the newer movies, Prometheus and Covenant ... they would have had a lot more remote sensing. Surveys from orbit, or drones, and why didn't they just send David in, and why not have a few more Davids? After all must less food and life support would have been necessary, and the risk to human lives would have been must less.

But these are scary, horror type movies, not scientific documentaries.

[–] Kendricks (2081) 3 years ago

1. No one knew, a signal from a strange planet can very well just be that, a rescue beacon and the movie made it clear the company had rules for that. He followed the rules and regulations.

2. We do not know the actual capabilities and limitations of that scan.

3. It wasn't clear at all as the source of the signal was not yet found.

4. Huh?

5. The only thing where he has shown incompetence.

[–] wearsalan (5554) 3 years ago

5. The only thing where he has shown incompetence.

Except as he told Ripley Ash outranked him in matters of science. He was following what he was told by Ash

[–] Kendricks (2081) 3 years ago

He was following the rules and regulations of the company, this was mentioned in the movie.
People also seem to forget in what kind of universe Alien plays. This is a dystopian future where most people can be glad to have a job and where basically everyone is easily replaceable. This usually leads to people sticking to the rules without asking questions - something also mentioned in the movie.

Dallas did as he was told.
We can play "holier than though" all day and talk about him following even sketchy orders being problematic, weak, spineless - whatever. But that doesn't change the fact that he did what he was expected to do.

[–] Obifuntoknowme (1094) 3 years ago

Yes he was, and a right arrogant asshole too!

[–] imatosser182 (307) 3 years ago

That's below the belt.

[–] Obifuntoknowme (1094) 3 years ago

That’s right, the asshole is BELOW the belt!

[–] ProgsReturn (1762) 3 years ago

1) It was identified as a distress call... it wasn't until much later that it was possibly misidentified.

2) It's a mining ship, not an exploration vehicle. No reason for it to have such capabilities.

3) When did it become clear there was no-one to rescue? It was cut short because of what happened to Kane.

4) It's not his job to fix the ship. That's why there's engineers on board.

5) He was taking advice from Ash, who was protecting the alien, remember?

[–] Ace_Spade (9348) 3 years ago

Well-said.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

He could have followed the protocols to a T and the movie would have been over in about 25 minutes, but at least that would have been more accurate.

He's also a miner/trucker, not a scientist or military guy.

[–] sati_84 (441) 3 years ago

"He landed his ship to investigate a purported distress signal without properly identify if it is indeed a distress call"

The guy is not a scientist. He had to take MUTHUR's and his science officer's word on the nature of the transmission. And there was an active conspiracy in the background which had his science officer involved, meaning he deliberately suppressed this information, leaving not much for Dallas to work with.

He didn’t scan the planet’s surface from orbit (A capability that they shown as having available to them as they were able to detect the location of the vessel “in distress”)

He did not do that, I give you that. Although given the nature of the situation that later ensued, scanning the planet's surface would've not given too much useful information to them. They could have landed a bit closer to the distress call maybe, reducing the EVA time, but other than that, I'm not sure what you mean here.

He didn’t cut short the “rescue mission” when it was clear that there was no one to “rescue”

It's never stated in the movie that they embark on a "rescue mission". Ash only mentions that they are obligated to "investigate" the source of the signal, otherwise their payment will be denied. What "investigation" means is never elaborated on, so we can assume the suits at W-Y are going to determine at a later date how thorough they were. If Dallas and co. stopped as soon as they saw the alien spaceship, went back to the ship, and returned home, W-Y's response could be "You found that the distress signal is coming from an alien spaceship, but you were unable to provide us with information about its crew or cargo. Your investigation was not thorough enough, payment is denied.". So Dallas' reasons for exploring the ship further and further are pretty obvious.

Continued in the next post because of the character limit.

[–] moviechatterer (13297) 3 years ago

I wouldnt give him that second one.
'able to detect the location of the vessel “in distress”' does not indicate an ability to "scan the planets surface"

[–] sati_84 (441) 3 years ago

Thanks, I wanted to include that as well, but it was lost in the shuffle.

[–] sati_84 (441) 3 years ago

He didn't fix the ship

He didn't, it's Parker's and Brett's job. But I know what you mean. Yep, he gave the order to leave the planetoid a bit too soon, backup systems and whatnot was not yet fixed by P&B. I think this was the filmmaker's way to express he's stressed and what unfolded on the planetoid affected him mentally. I mean... that's pretty realistic, right? I mean I don' blame the guy at all, the sight of facehugged Kane is horrific and would knock anyone's psyche out of balance, so I for one can understand why Dallas wanted to get the hell off that place.

Not quarantining Kane, even after the facehugger fell off

Can't argue with that! What happens immediately after Kane is awake and seemingly fine is going against all the procedures. But if you look at it from a different angle, it becomes clear what happened. Everyone was stressed, after witnessing the unspeakable horror of the facehugging. It's understandable that they all collectively grasped at the first chance they could get a sense of normalcy, a glimmer of hope. They did not really believe Kane was 100% OK. They wanted to believe Kane was 100% OK - all the while Ash was smiling in the background, enabling them. The science officer declared Kane a clear bill of health, and if he (an authority figure in terms of scientific questions) is not worried, why should I (a navigator, a repair guy, etc.) be? Ash manipulated the whole crew there perfectly, counting on the fact that they wanted to be relieved of a burden, and Ash wanted them to let their guard down anyways. Did I mention there was an active conspiracy going on in the background? I think a leader's job becomes just a tiny bit harder during those circumstances. Don't you?

[–] brux (14666) 3 years ago

Well, not at least scanning Kane after having an alien life form face fucking it for over a day and missing the face-hugger was idiotic. The crew did not even seem to have a medical officer on board. Alien is a fun movie but as soon as you start to think logically about it it's pretty ridiculous.

How does the alien grow so big without eating anyone or anything? And if it can grow so big on non-human food, or whatever, why does it need to eat or enslave humans to cycle to its mature stage?

Humanity has proven that the most dangerous life form is not one with superhuman strength, teeth, claws or other biological weapons ... it is intelligence.

[–] sati_84 (441) 3 years ago

Well, not at least scanning Kane after having an alien life form face fucking it for over a day and missing the face-hugger was idiotic

You botched this sentence, but I think I understand what you meant. A deleted scene has Dallas and Ash looking at an image of Kane's chest (while he is facehugged) The image is showing a suspicious shadow under Kane's lungs. This shadow is obviously the chestburster, but at that time they don't know that and Ash explains it away as a speck on the lens of the imaging device. Dallas argues that Ash needs to learn more about it, but Ash shows that beyond a certain point of magnification, the image becomes fuzzy and unintelligible, so they are unable to resolve what they are looking at.

After the chestburster scene, Dallas is furious with Ash and confronts him about the mysterious shadow, and makes the accusation that Ash knew what it is, but let the chestburster flourish in Kane anyways. Ash explains this away with a theory about how the chestburster was able to generate electromagnetic radiation to hide itself from imaging techniques... which is a huge stretch, but Dallas not being a scientist cannot argue otherwise - although he feels he was beng lied to the whole time. So this deleted scene addresses your point: yes, they scanned Kane, yes they saw the chestburster, but Ash knowing full well what is going to happen, covered up the discovery.

I'm 50% sad this scene did not make the final cut: it would have been great to see that yes, they are scanning him and try to figure out what exactly happened to Kane. But the other 50% is me accepting why it was not included. You see Ripley already confronted Ash about opening the door and letting Dallas & Co. on board with the facehugged Kane. So two characters confronting Ash about two separate things would have been a bit much, if you look at the structure of the movie - these would have been two very similar scenes very close to each other, so one had to go.

[–] sati_84 (441) 3 years ago

(continued here due to character limit)

So this scene was cut, in favor of building Ripley's character, which is fine for me. Besides - as I mentioned earlier, Ash has the final word on Kane's health. The scene in which Kane is awake and the crew is happy shows how masterfully Ash manipulated them into accepting his authority - and how utterly relieved the crew felt after witnessing the horror of reent events. I don't really miss the scanning scene, because that scene is kind of redundant, as that is also about Ash's manipulation skills. I described the scene above, but it's included in the novelization as well if you want to learn more about it.

How does the alien grow so big without eating anyone or anything? And if it can grow so big on non-human food, or whatever, why does it need to eat or enslave humans to cycle to its mature stage?

There is a deleted scene in which the alien invades a food locker, where it breaks various boxes containing canned food, and eats a considerable amount of them. This is also included in the novelization, but the problem is it doesn't explain anything because 1. It's deleted, not in the movie, so... duh, 2. in the novelization it's included after Brett's death scene, so the alien has already grown!

[–] sati_84 (441) 3 years ago

(continued here due to character limit)

All in all there is no official explanation on how the alien grows. However, I don't think this is as big of an issue as people make it out to be. This is a science fiction movie featuring an unknown species. We can't be sure about... well anything related to its physiology. And that is great, because it keeps the mystery alive in my opinion. There is no official explanation because we don't need one. In keeping with the laws of conservation of energy & mass, I have a personal theory: when the chestburster was feeding on Kane, it not only gathered food to grow large enough to burst out, in parallel it gathered an additional dense "package" of energy, a blob of fat, sugars and other materials, storing many-many calories in a small eggyolk-like sphere. After bursting out of Kane, it found a hiding place and consumed this blob of energy providing the necessary amount of nutrition for the transformation.

This is my personal theory and there is nothing in the movie to back it up. But that's the point: you're watching a science fiction movie, come up with your own explanation, have some imagination :-)) This is a mystery but not because the creators of the movie were lazy to explain this, but because the point is that we don't know and the crew doesn't know either! There are some possibilities, like my theory, but the physiology of the alien is completely unknown.

So I still think the actons of the crew were logical. There are some points where they could have done something else, but all of those decision points were manipulated by Ash working against them the whole time, so I think all the decisions were justified.

[–] brux (14666) 3 years ago

I did not botch that sentence in any way.

What that Dallas said about Ash indicated that Dallas thought Ash knew what was going on? I also do not remember Ash saying the Alien could hide itself from imaging sensors, but if he did that would be ridiculous. It would take high-school education now to know what is not true, so in the 23rd century I think Dallas would understand enough engineering and science.

I also cannot buy a spec of the crew was so overwhelmed with emotion they blew their basic job off - which is the most common Ridley Scott overused meme. Ridley Scott SF movies are like The Three Stooges Go To Mars.

[–] sati_84 (441) 3 years ago

What that Dallas said about Ash indicated that Dallas thought Ash knew what was going on?

Please be more specific, I don't know which line are you referring to here.

I also do not remember Ash saying the Alien could hide itself from imaging sensors

You shouldn't remember that line, because as I already explained it's a deleted scene. Ripley was already suspicious of Ash, so it was cut to avoid redundancy. And I agree, this explanation by Ash would have been too ridiculous - but since we don't know anything about the alien's physiology and there is no other way to gather data than through Ash... it kind of still works - but it's not a problem that it was dropped.

I also cannot buy a spec of the crew was so overwhelmed with emotion they blew their basic job off - which is the most common Ridley Scott overused meme. Ridley Scott SF movies are like The Three Stooges Go To Mars.

You would be right if the moment in question was not built up properly. But it was. By the time it happens, we are fully aware of the crew dynamics and the personality traits. They all were masterfully manipulated by Ash (with the exception of Ripley), and 1. no one had any data to challenge anything Ash says and 2. Even if there was something wrong with Kane, the crew wanted climb into the freezer, and deal with it later, on Earth. If the alien didn't burst until then, it would have worked out for Ash just the same.

Many films have the "suddenly, dumb decision" plot device which is rightfully scolded by you. I don't think Alien is a fair tartget in that regard, because of the above reasons. Later Ridley films like Prometheus and A: Covenant totally dropped the ball, but they did not have interesting characters and crew dynamics at all... so about them you are absolutely right.