Theme music - To the Manor Born (1982) Discussion

yep! the bbc is that cheap. i suppose it makes a change thou, usally they only repeat the programmes!

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The music is similar but it is definitly not the same. Both were written by the same paerson. Yes minister is based on the westminster chimes.

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[–] donmccullen-1 19 years ago

BBC these days up to the standards in American production. Take a look the "The Office."

Also BBC as to meet a quota in which a certain amount of programs must come from outside the BBC production. The best show in that department is MI-5/Spooks.

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[–] Jack_1515 19 years ago

I got both on tape, they sure sound absolutely the same to me....the addition of a few chimes doesn't change the fact its the same bloody score!

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[–] laurence01 19 years ago

It is not the same score. The sound is very much the same but the melody line is completely different.

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[–] Jack_1515 18 years ago

Just heard both and played both for my family, listen to it again love, your completely wrong.

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[–] laurence01 18 years ago

I think you must be tone deaf

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[–] Jack_1515 18 years ago

Funny, I was just thinking you must be just plain deaf!

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[–] laurence01 18 years ago

Are you in america. Because the only thing I can think of is that they have used different music in the us to the uk. And i'm certainly not deaf I'm a sound engineer with a paricular expertese in editing. So I Know what i am talking about.

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[–] Jack_1515 18 years ago

That is an interesting point you made about the editing. I am in America, but not a professional sound engineeer as yourself so it is possible we're just mixing up our terms at the very least, and prehaps listening to slightly different sountracks. Of course, it may be that the BBC played around editing the soundtrack for American audiences. Certainly they changed the name of the Good Life to Good Neighbors so we may indeed be listening to two different soundtracks. The video copies I have are of PBS TV broadcasts 10-15 years ago.

And hey, you called me deaf first! Besides, its probably not doing either of us much credit to get in an arguement over an old sitcom soundtrack, among the most ephemeral expressions of human creativity. The differences between the two soundtracks must be very minor. I do sound editing for streaming audio as a hobby (ex-radio man myself) so certainly one could download the sountracks onto Sound Forge or Cool Edit or a similar UK version of those sound editing programs and compare them chronologically measure for measure.

Funny, I could guess you were from the UK based on the attitude of your response - it does seem that some Britcom stereotypes must be based on real life! I'm sure you could probably guess I'm an American by my ability to offend our longtime allies :) Laugh bro - its all good in the end and we likely have more in common than just liking old Britcom soundtracks!

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] robfwoods 18 years ago

Am a big fan of the Minister series - and immediately wondered what was going on when I heard TTMB.

The production notes on the DVD for Hazlehurst didn't mention Ministers - but IMDB showed it -

Of course there are probably some notes and bars that are different but to any usual person the themes are close siblings. So close in sound and chronology that I believe one can say that Hazlehurst ripped off the people paying him for music for the Ministers

But all fine series!

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[–] Jack_1515 18 years ago

Many thanks Robfwoods, I knew I wasn't alone!

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[–] robfwoods 18 years ago

I didn't really want to add to the brewing conflagration but - just to repeat and emphasize - the themes from both series just have to have the same musical DNA. I am in the sound business - but not music per se - and am 'listening' all the time (even though I haven't the foggiest how to read music beyond simple notes) - but am solidly of the opinion that almost anyone would think them absolutely joined at the hip - or even more so - at the cranium.

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[–] laurence01 18 years ago

If you reacall in my first post I said the sound was very much the same. But the melody lines are not. "yes minister" is definitly based on the westminster chimes. "to the manor born" is not. It reminds me of the "beatle cracker suite" from the 60,s where the composer took sections of the nutcracker and replaced the melody lines with beatles numbers. One was the "sugar plum fairy" with the melody line of "cant buy mr love".

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[–] robfwoods 18 years ago

That may all be so - but I listened to them in succession last night after this issue came up again (have complete DVD series of TMB, YM and YPM - all Euro versions bought at Play/Jersey)- but to this non-prof musician's ear - which I suppose are 98% of the watchers of these series - and it's all from the same kettle of fish - and heard very little differentiation overall.

Indeed there were 'differences' but nothing that would have you think one was for one series and the other for another. Rather surprising that producers of YM/YPM basically bought 'repeats' the very next year!

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[–] andyt29 17 years ago

i was thinking of that too very similar isn't it done by the same person? Ronnie hazlehurst ?

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[–] laurence01 17 years ago

They were indeed both done by "Ronnie Hazlehurst". As I have said in my posts before they are very similar but the melody lines are different.

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[–] Jack_1515 16 years ago

Well then, he definietly was a lazy sod then. But I still don't believe you about the melody lines.

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[–] laurence01 16 years ago

"Well then, he definietly was a lazy sod then. But I still don't believe you about the melody lines."

Well I'm sorry about this, and I don't mean to be rude. But if you cant hear the difference between the melody lines then you are definitely tone deaf, and I mean that as a medical fact.

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[–] Jack_1515 16 years ago

You're the one hearing things, not me. Its the same music, same theme, same running time. The BBC was cheap and everyone can hear the evidence for themselves.

Your assertion falls flat for the same basic accounting reason. Why hire an entire orchestra to so subtly change a melody line only people suffering from auditory hallucinations can hear them? They wouldn't. They'd have a whole new score recorded.

Also, genius, being tone deaf or not is not related to medical health nor can it be discerned via e-mail and your hubris. Your assertion that is a medical fact being rude. I think the only thing that needs to be checked is your ego, after that I'm sure your hearing will be fine.

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[–] laurence01 16 years ago

Just forget it. We will agree to disagree. Although in saying that I will question something on your last post. Weather or not the melodys are the same (which I say they are not). The intro of THMB is about double the length of YM, also THMB has a finish, but YM fades. Therefore they can not possibly be the same running time. Going back to an earler post, if you really cant hear the difference, I honestly think that the US coppies must have different music to the UK ones. Because I promise you (as god is my wittness) that everything I have said on this board is true.

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[–] Edwardcole 16 years ago

The final eleven seconds or so are identical, namely the timpani and the final few notes from the horns before that. The notes played at the beginning and middle are clearly different. The pattern in which the melody repeats itself is very similar. They are clearly two different tunes, but if they had not been composed by the same person, they are close enough that had they been composed by two different people, the first one could have sued the second for copyright infringement.

I personally do not believe that the similar theme songs was laziness on the part of the late Ronnie Hazlehurst. The signature tunes of both shows are nearly identical because the themes of both shows are nearly identical. The old order of English society trying to thwart change whenever they can and grudgingly coping with it when they can't is the most important theme of both shows. It doesn't matter whether it's Richard vs Audrey or Jim vs Sir Humphrey. Ronnie Hazlehurst also composed the theme song for "Only Fools and Horses," and a lot more series, but since that series was very different, the theme songs were different.

In fact, I would go as far to say that I don't believe that anyone who has seen both this series and the "Yes, Minister/Yes, Prime Minister" series would ever like one but not the other. I personally believe both series were brilliant. Is there anyone out there who has seen both that actually disliked one but liked the other? All of us may prefer one series to the other, but I honestly don't believe there is anyone out there who actually dislikes one of these series while liking the other.

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[–] laurence01 16 years ago

As I understand it. He was asked at the last minuete to compose "yes minister", and composed a new melody and counter melody over the same backing. I also agree with you that both are fantastic programs.

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[–] Mrs_Twelvetrees 15 years ago

I watched To The Manor Born for the very first time last week, and I immediately noticed the similarity between the two themes too. I agree with laurence01: the themes are not exactly the same, as the melodies are different. The similarity lies in the fact that the backing and musical instruments used are the same. You'll notice the difference when you try humming the Yes Minister melody while listening to the To The Manor Born theme. I tried it only last night. There is a difference.

Darling, We're the Young Ones
Hammersmith Hardwoman #11

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[–] Jack_1515 14 years ago

There is no difference. If it was in court, Hazelhurst would be sued for plaguirizing himself! It was an exterme act of laziness on his part and cheapness on the BCC.

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[–] AndyRyan 13 years ago

I'll have to listen to both side by side now - all these years I assumed they were literally the same piece of music.

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