MovieChat Forums > To the Manor Born (1982) Discussion > Richard's wife

Richard's wife

posted 16 years ago by catrionalowe84
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I know it's not important, but did anyone else ever wonder what Richard's first wife might have been like? He says he's a widower, so she must have died - I know that sounds blatantly obvious, but he doesn't seem particularly affected somehow. Maybe she had died quite a while before he came to Grantleigh & he was 'over it', but it surely couldn't have been THAT long ago - he was only about forty, I think, at the start of Series 1. It's clear from the beginning that Audrey's marriage to Marton was definitely not a "love thing" - I wonder if Richard's was? I can't see him marrying without affection somehow. Anyone have any opinions?

Catriona x

"Fate shuffles the cards and we play" (Schopenhauer)

[–] brandy5 16 years ago

Richard mentions that his wife had died six months before - this was in the first episode - actually, he said 'passed away' which upset Audrey because that's not the correct expression in her upper class.
I got worried the first few times I watched TTMB because Audrey kept referring to the Manor as if she was actually a fforbes-Hamilton by birth, ie talking of her grandfather and the Manor and referring to various fforbes-Hamilton uncles, etc. and having grown up in or around the Manor, as if they were her family when Marton was the fforbes-Hamilton. All was revealed when I got the novelization - Marton and Audrey were first cousins and her maiden name was also fforbes-Hamilton, therefore Audrey and Marton would have shared common relatives on the fforbes-Hamilton side of the family. Anyone else notice this?

[–] catrionalowe84 16 years ago

Oh yeah, I forgot he mentioned that - I've not watched the first series for a while. Sorry! Yeah, I had wondered about the fforbes-Hamilton thing too when I first reached it - they were the only family that Audrey ever mentioned, & I wondered if she perhaps had no actual blood relations at all, or had lost touch with them. Then Greville Hartley arrived in Series 3, & she called him "the black sheep of the family" - presumably meaning the fforbes-Hamiltons, so I wondered whether he was just her great-uncle-in-law or something. Anyway, thanks for solving the mystery for me!

Catriona x

"Fate shuffles the cards and we play" (Schopenhauer)

[–] brandy5 16 years ago

Greville was an uncle on her mother's side. Presumably her mother's brother.

I had thought that the reference to 'in my grandfather's time' was a massive big blooper on the scriptwriters part so therefore was very relieved to find out about the first cousin thing in the novelization.

[–] skagway65 16 years ago

I haven't read the novelization, but I got it that she and Martin (Is Marton the correct spelling? Must read his tombstone more carefully.) were cousins.

I always got the impression that Richard loved his wife deeply, thus he reaches out to Audrey at her husband's funeral in empathy, and she rebuffs him for 1) being inappropriately intimate to a stranger, 2) because she hasn't felt that love.

I think that's what kept them apart for a while, he getting over his wife's death to some extent.

[–] catrionalowe84 16 years ago

Yes, I'm sure Richard loved his wife deeply too - great affection is a big part of his character. If it had only been six months, then yes, he would've still been in mourning & not on the look-out for another woman or anything. But Mrs Pou was pushing him about Audrey from about halfway through the first series - maybe it was just friendliness at first, but by the last episode she was almost ordering him to marry again, & to marry Audrey too. She seems to know her son pretty well, so if he was still in mourning, surely she wouldn't have pushed it so soon?

And "Marton" is the correct spelling, skagway. I must admit that I wouldn't have noticed it on the tombstone if someone hadn't mentioned the spelling somewhere else - I forget where now. It's so dark in that scene (that may sound stupid as it's night time, but you know what I mean!) & I was too busy going "awww" over Audrey & Richard - yes, it's not exactly a romantic love scene, but that wouldn't have suited them.

While I remember, as well, it was Richard who suggested "chucking the business" - what do you think he was planning? I originally wondered if he might have been going to propose to Audrey, but now I think it's unlikely - he was so astounded when SHE asks HIM. Plus "I didn't think you'd want me without the Manor" sounds like he wouldn't have thought he'd had a hope. In the scene where he tells her he's leaving, & he says "There is something I WOULD like to ask", I like to think he'd have asked her if she'd have married him if he'd stayed, sort of hypothetically.

Catriona x

"Fate shuffles the cards and we play" (Schopenhauer)

[–] skagway65 16 years ago

Rewatched the last two episodes to familiarize myself with the final careful dance between the two....

I actually enjoy 3.6 more the concluding episode, just for PK's delivery of the line, "I'm going to marry him," to 'Uncle' Greville. It's perfect--the character's supreme confidence in everything she faces, but contrasted with a tone of wonder and glee at speaking the words aloud that had been peculating for a while, I'd say--I also love the gasp from the audience.

And I realized, as they went through their furious 'negotiations' in those last two episodes, that by helping Richard attempt to keep the manor, she kept herself from accepting him--assuming he'd gotten up the courage to ask--because she says later she would not marry him as long as he had the manor, for he'd always assume that's why she did it. But she wouldn't go to him poor either, so she might as well make the sacrifice.

'While I remember, as well, it was Richard who suggested "chucking the business" - what do you think he was planning?'

I think he was trying, very badly, to propose and he knew there was no way she'd survive in London--he would have to give up his jet-set lifestyle to marry her.

He'd made some fumbling attempts previously, to at least to feel out Audrey's feelings, in the folly, for example, but, contrasting with his usual dash and confidence, made a mess of it. We see in the 2007 special that he does 'chuck it' for Audrey, but the lure of business gets him in trouble again.

I share none of the characters' political or economic attitudes, but I must say, the appeal of the series to this old Socialist has always been the very equal relationship between the two characters. It's so rare to see a man give up so much for a woman, instead of some woman pathetically grateful that some man will marry her. I admit to getting a tight throat when we see the one more sacrifice Richard makes for her at the end of the special, as well as adapting his business plan to something more agreeable to Audrey.

[–] catrionalowe84 16 years ago

Yes, I also love that "I'm going to marry him" line. It is so perfectly delivered: the confidence, as you say, & that little touch of almost giggliness - reminds me of myself when I announced my first date aged 12, lol!

I like your theory about the last couple of episodes, Audrey trying to help Richard keep the Manor & keeping herself from accepting him, & Richard considering "chucking the business" to marry her. I hadn't thought about it all together before, but it makes sense, & I now look upon it as more romantic than I had done before. (How many times have I said "I hadn't thought about it before" on this board now? It'll look like I never think about anything at all.)

You're also so right about it being nice to see a man give up so much for a woman. Wish I could find one of them. And I had to swallow hard at the end of the special as well. I can understand Richard wanting to go back into business, it was such a big part of his life & he was good at it. But when he sees it's going to cause problems with Audrey, he gives it up. Lovely. But Richard was always so sweet without being overly sentimental - it's one of the things I love about him.

Catriona x

"Fate shuffles the cards and we play" (Schopenhauer)

[–] skagway65 16 years ago

Rewatching Series 3--sniffle, it's nearly over--and poor Richard seems to be trying to get up his courage to talk to Audrey about...something...in nearly every episode. Interestingly, Audrey's openly encouraging or pursuing him, although she tells Marjory that can't go to him poor. Then immediately sees selling her Rolls as a 'way to solve a lot of problems.'

Mrs. Poo's handprints are firmly in their backs through this series as well, even stating that she wants some grandchildren. One of the things I really liked about Audrey was her warmth and affection towards Mrs. Poo, someone she could have easily snubbed or looked down upon.

If they did do a new series, it seems there could be a plausible explanation for an unmentioned child. Modeled on the kids I meet hosteling around Europe, they see themselves as Europeans first and the world as their playground. I can see a child who took the Polouvicka name, not even DeVere, let alone fforbes-Hamilton. These are all qualities that I imagine would create a great rift with Audrey, and probably Richard as well, leading to them reaching out to Adam. Like the Queen, I can see Audrey being very concerned with a smooth succession.

The other issue is a young female lead, since the romantic comedy element was a good way to show the class conflict. Adam and...let's call her Maria...would be second cousins. Would that still be too squeamish for modern viewers?

If not a fforbes-Hamiliton/Devere child, what sort of character would make a good romantic foil for Adam?

[–] catrionalowe84 16 years ago

Series 3 always gets me like that too! I sit there & go, "Come ON! DO something!" I never considered Audrey selling the Rolls as anything to do with her and Richard's romance. One thing I'm a bit muddled about is, she wouldn't go to him poor, but then after he's had to sell up she says to both Mrs Pou & Richard that she wouldn't have married him when he had the Manor. So if he HAD proposed sometime in Series 3, would she have said no, or agreed but insisted on waiting till she'd got money of her own? Seeing as, as you said, she was encouraging him, I can't see her saying no. And what if she hadn't inherited the money from Uncle Greville & couldn't buy the Manor back - if Richard had asked her, would she have left Grantleigh to go with him? Oh well, at least it all worked out in the end.

I always liked Audrey & Mrs Pou's mutual affection too - you probably would have thought Audrey would look down on her, but they're such good friends. Mrs Pou wanted Audrey & Richard to get together from about, what, the third episode of Series 1? Shows that she knew all about what was going to happen before either of them did, even if Audrey did have plans! Shame she didn't get the grandchildren she wanted...

...or did she? That's an interesting idea about a "European" child. I can't say I particularly like the idea of Audrey & Richard being separated from their child - maybe he/she is just away travelling, rather than a big dramatic separation? (Then again, being Audrey & Richard's child, you can see drama would be a big part of their nature!) Would it be sort of a sort of reversal of class & gender, ie it's the guy who's the posh one this time? (I don't think I'm speaking proper English any more, but hopefully you'll know what I mean!) Maybe Maria could come back for some reason, at least to see Audrey & Richard even if she doesn't plan to stay, & although she didn't care about Grantleigh, doesn't like the idea of Adam taking what's hers? Characterwise, I'd say she'd have to be very feisty & strong-willed - though again, considering her parentage, that's more than likely. I'm trying to think what Adam would plan for Grantleigh that she might not like - it would have to be something big to make her stay & take more interest in the estate. Hmm, need to consider that one.

As for a romance between her & Adam, I don't see why there should be a problem - it's not illegal or anything. I certainly wouldn't be bothered by it. Goes back to the "four hundred years of chronic in-breeding", as Richard called it! Then again, there could be actual love between them (Adam & Maria) which there evidently wasn't between Audrey & Marton.

Anyway, Maria aside, I would think Adam's "romantic foil" should be, again, someone strong-willed & feisty, someone who really got his attention. (Then again, he liked Marjory in the Christmas episode, & I don't really think those words could be applied to her.) The difference this time round as well is that Richard only faced pressure from Audrey when it came to things he did at Grantleigh, whereas Adam would probably have both Audrey & Richard keeping an eye on him, as well as perhaps this female lead. I can see conflicts - what Adam feels he SHOULD do or WANTS to do, & coming up against either Audrey & Richard, or the female lead. Is this making any sense at all? And have I gone way too far in this (lol)?

Catriona x

"Fate shuffles the cards and we play" (Schopenhauer)

[–] catrionalowe84 16 years ago

Right, I've spent the afternoon watching Series 3 & I feel TOTALLY stupid not to have put all the little bits in the last couple of episodes together - WHY did I not twig when Audrey mentions she couldn't expect Richard to marry a pauper & then immediately gets the idea to sell the Rolls? I feel very thick now. Oh well, just need to watch it more often!

Catriona x

"Fate shuffles the cards and we play" (Schopenhauer)

[–] skagway65 16 years ago

One thing I'm a bit muddled about is, she wouldn't go to him poor, but then after he's had to sell up she says to both Mrs Pou & Richard that she wouldn't have married him when he had the Manor. So if he HAD proposed sometime in Series 3, would she have said no, or agreed but insisted on waiting till she'd got money of her own? Seeing as, as you said, she was encouraging him, I can't see her saying no. And what if she hadn't inherited the money from Uncle Greville & couldn't buy the Manor back - if Richard had asked her, would she have left Grantleigh to go with him? Oh well, at least it all worked out in the end.

Yes, this confuses me as well. A possible explanation is, when Audrey tells Mrs. Poo that she wouldn't come to him when he had the manor because he'd think it was for the manor, doesn't she know she has Uncle Greville's money and will be bidding for it? So she could afford to make moral stands. ;) Mmmm...may have to rewatch to see the order. Perhaps him losing the manor lifted a barrier that was holding her back, and Audrey realized she couldn't have married him before.

Although I agree, it would seem a bit of a stretch to pull a child out of the hat for a new series, when there was no mention or photographs during their anniversary--that's why a dramatic estrangement seems necessary--we never knew that Audrey had this gaggle of nieces and nephews before either.

I can see this 'Maria' as not thinking she cares about Grantleigh, but when faced with losing it to Adam of the mysterious past--he made me a bit worried when he was asking Richard if Richard threw wild parties there (What is that past!?)--she finds herself reluctantly becoming more involved.

A new character could be a government official or something along those lines--a foil for the country manor lifestyle, but such a person wouldn't have the emotional investment of a DeVere child. Perhaps imposing all those EU rules for agriculture?

[–] catrionalowe84 16 years ago

Hmm, yes, I suppose you would need the dramatic estrangement then, though I find it very hard to imagine Audrey & Richard, the latter particularly, casting a child off - I'd personally prefer "Maria" going her own way & they don't know exactly where she is or something. Totally agree about "Maria" not wanting to lose Grantleigh to Adam ("don't know what you've got till it's gone" kind of thing"). "Adam of the mysterious past" - ooh, I think it sounds rather sexy, lol. He's sounding rather like a Rochester figure now - maybe he's got a mad wife locked up somewhere!

A government official would be quite good, but where would he or she fit in? Would they be friends with one character but a bitter enemy of another? From the special, it seems like the country manor lifestyle that Audrey grew up with is getting harder to maintain, so she & Richard could face problems there. Richard perhaps feels the necessity of moving with the times, but Audrey hates the idea, as has always been the case, causing another clash.

I don't know about you, but horrified as I was when Audrey temporarily left Richard, I was even more so when she said, "And this time I mean it!" or something to that effect. How many times do you think it's happened before? I dread to think. I mean, they were never going to be a fairy-tale couple, living happily ever after, because the friction between them is, in my opinion, one of the, if not the, most prominent part(s) of their relationship. But I hate the idea of them frequently having such fierce arguments that would make her declare she's leaving. Still, Audrey's such a drama queen, however many times she said it I would imagine it was usually just for effect.

Catriona x

"Fate shuffles the cards and we play" (Schopenhauer)

[–] kmb5287 16 years ago

Just found this board, have been a TTMB fan for a long time.

I too thought it would have been nice if they'd had a child. Perhaps maybe an adopted child would be more suited to the storyline (given that Audrey must have supposed to have been mid-late forties when she married Richard). I'd really love to see a new series, as I wasn't even born when the first three aired!

Katie.

[–] hifijohn 8 years ago

it brings to question his sexuality
not grieving over wifes death, you never see pix of her or him talking about her.
wants mother with him
rejects the very sexy cosmetic owners advances(Rula Lenska)
never seems to want females companionship.