MovieChat Forums > Wizards (1977) Discussion > A question about commentary remarks

A question about commentary remarks

posted 19 years ago by ilssaridor
7 replies | jump to latest

On the director's commentary, Bakshi says -- in reference to the roto-scoping technique-- that it got him in "a lot of trouble with Lord of the Rings."

I don't remember there being a lot of trouble when LotR came out about Roto-scoping...

Albeit I was fourteen at the time, and didn't pay a lot of attention to the news, but I was reading Heavy Metal & Ackermonster's Famous Monsters of Filmland...

Is he talking about in recent times (say the past ten years) people express dissatisfaction with the technique compared to modern SPFX & CGI, or is he hinting at copyright violations back in 78, or what?

Anybody got any hard info about this?
Thanks

[–] TonyDood 19 years ago

I have reviews that were done at the time and they make a lot of fuss about "rotoscoping" as though it was a new process unique to this one film. It was probably the first major animated film to rely so heavily on roto (Sleeping Beauty and Snow White used it a lot for their human characters) and the reviewers felt it was "cheating" and that it cheapened the art of the project. I remember seeing it for the first time and being disappointed that it looked pretty shakey and weird, but I was more displeased with the use of painted-over negatives (like the orcs) on LOTR and on Wizards, which I think looks really cheap and tacky. But I forgive them and like the movies anyway, because I still haven't seen any great animated fantasy films for adults out there to compare these too.

I can shuffle cut and deal but I can't draw a hand

[–] LittleMiso 19 years ago

I actually enjoyed the shadow things. While Bakshi employs and experiments with techniques that don't always work, they are still quite interesting.

What I wonder is- relating to the criticism on rotoscoping, will Linklater's upcoming "A Scanner Darkly" get any? I'm looking forward to the film (I liked his previous animated film, "Waking Life", which employed the same technique), but I'm just wondering. Or are critics going to be scared of each others' comments and all point towards positive because they don't want some of their fellow critics to laugh at them because they just wrote something bad about the latest indie masterpiece... (I tend to prefer indie films, but I find this trend with critics to be quite annoying.)

For some reason, Bakshi's a director that's always worked for me, and I have no idea why. My guess is the unique style used- "American Pop" would have been dull and lifeless under any other director. (or if it were kept in live-action)

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[–] ErinDLindsey 19 years ago

One recent reviewer actually slammed the critics who slammed Wizards for having been rotoscoped, saying that they'd "beaten it like a red-headed stepchild, for which they ought to be imprisoned for child abuse." And I agree, because both it and the animated LOTR rocked.

I know fans of animation who are old enough to have seen both Wizards and Bakshi's LOTR in the theatre, who to this day still loathe both films entirely on the basis that rotoscoping was used. I think that's kind of a petty, knit-picking attitude to take, like saying "I hate the Matrix because CGI and Bullet Time were used, and that's CHEATING!" Though I also know people who do say that about the Matrix as well. ::rolls eyes.::

[–] mad19571 19 years ago

Tony Dodd makes some good points.
Ijust wanted to add that part of what Ralph was referring to is how displeased Christopher Tolkien was with the way that the rotoscoping looked. When combined with a few other complaints that he had, it lead to the sequel being pulled from Bakshi and given to Rankin Bass, who had done the animation for "The Hobbit". Whether that decision was an improvement is highly debatable.
Hope that this helps.

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[–] bgrubb 19 years ago

I have always wondered why Rankin Bass started about midway through the LotR in the follow up to the Hobbit. Personally I don't mind the rotoscoping and the commentary actaually makes some sence out of its use in Wizards.

[–] zozogogo 19 years ago

Yeah, nobody really criticizes Disney when they used rotoscoping(Though thats probably because not many people are aware of it).

Though I think a good chunck of the flack Bakshi got over the rotoscoping in LotR was because of the fact that alot of it wasn't even finished. One might be able to accept the orc's to an extent but alot of the other stuff just looks sloppy. One minute the main charatcers are fully rotoscoped, the next you see all the real actors with some cheap color filter over them, then back to being fully rotoscoped again. It can be pretty jarring for some people, especially Helm's Deep(Personally I still liked the film and the unfinished stuff creates a pretty bizarre look and adds to the dark atmosphere though I can see how one might dislike that).

Fire and Ice actually managed to get the rotoscoping fully finished and it's pretty nice though few people got to see that flick because of it's severe lack of distribution.

[–] 19 years ago

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