MovieChat Forums > The Turning Point (1977) Discussion > Black Swan (2010) Stole from this for su...

Black Swan (2010) Stole from this for sure


Alot of the same elements, same studio (Fox) etc

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Yes, they're both in color, too. But that's about where the similarity ends. This is a screechy soap opera; Black Swan is a bizarre trip into the human psyche.

Why don't you stick to talking about movies you've actually seen?

"My brain rebelled, and insisted on applying logic where it was not welcome."

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haha I've seen both actually and they are VERY similiar and from the same studio. stufu.

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What does it matter that they're from the same studio?
Just because two movies are about competition, jealousy, the drive to succeed, doesn't mean that they aren't totally independent as works of art, as well as true intent.

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BS wishes it were TTP.

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"BS wishes it were TTP."

I agree 100%. I feel like NP said she wanted to redo this movie but make it "edgier" for today's (dumber) audiende.

http://www.oceanconservancy.org/site/PageServer?pagename=home

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Agreed. Thats why I won't bother with seeing BS becasue it's BS! They basally reworked the characters into something lesbian and murderous. In this movie the two women beat each other up and are not gay, thats about the only difference, oh, that and CGI wings...good grief. This is a very intelligent movie without sexual innuendo, but in this day and age I guess the dumber and sexier the better, hence the cgi wings and lesbian scene.

P.S. NM, I'm just posting.


http://www.oceanconservancy.org/site/PageServer?pagename=home

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What do you mean no sexual innuendo in TTP!? It has Baryshnikov pretty much playing himself for crying out loud! He has sleazy, 'let me impress and bed every young thing in tights, like Emilia' written all over him. They didn't rework the characters into something lesbian and murderous, what a moronic and simplistic assessment.BS's characters aren't gay either, just because a woman sleeps with another woman doesn't mean she's gay. And excuse me, but Bancroft's Anne slept around the company a bit in her youth, including having sex with the female director Adelaide, so don't get on some high horse about the lack of sexual innuendo in TTP. And don't forget that Deedee falls pregnant to prove her man isn't gay, so clearly sexuality in the movie is an issue. Ballet has always had it's fair share of backstage drug addictions, alcoholism, eating disorders, torrid affairs and fluid sexualities, so stop bemoaning the depiction of some of those aspects in 'this day and age'. BS's 'controversial' sex scene isn't about lesbianism, it's about the white swan merging with the black swan, it's about reflections, narcissism. BS relies on many unsettling moments and the idea of having sex with yourself, a darker, unknown version of yourself no less, (which is what the scene indicates) is pretty unsettling I think. It's only a titillating scene if you don't understand the plot or the character development. If you do, it's actually not very sexy at all.There will always be bad uses of cgi and lesbianism, but you can't generalize and say it's always about dumbing down and sexing up. It makes you look prematurely dismissive. Judge each according to its own merits and context. oh but wait, you haven't even seen BS which means you're judging according to assumptions, bad assumptions at that, making you look not only prematurely dismissive, but narrow minded and arrogant. All your argument has is the coincidental linking of a movie title to a common expletive because they share the same initials. bravo.

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The difference? Subtlety.

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What gave you the idea that Emma slept with Adelaide???






"Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?"

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Awesome post.
LIKE.

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I saw Black Swan first and then this movie last night on Netflix.

I thought Black Swan was boring, bizarre, and just downright out there.

This movie was good in terms of acting, but there were honestly too many ballet scenes in it; esp. near the end.

I preferred the drama that occurred between Ann B. and Shirley.

This movie, I think, has substance too; whereas, Black Swan is like a sci-fi, horror, ballet movie that's more like Suspiria in terms of oddness.

I simply disliked both movies.

I think posters have a tendency to make snide remarks towards other posters and fail to see that other people are entitled to their own views.

It doesn't make someone a moron just because they hated this movie along with Black Swan.

I didn't like either movie, but that doesn't make me nor anyone a moron because they dislike a work of fiction.

It's fine to critique a movie, but being rude to others for having a difference of opinion is just being plain rude.

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Where did I refer to the poster as a moron?
I didn't confront syfymoviebuff because they didn't like a movie, I confronted them because they wrote pretty dismissive and shallow critique of a movie while simultaneously admitting that they haven't and wouldn't watch the movie. If someone has watched a movie, doesn't like it and explains rationally why they don't, then no problemo, but I think it's a bit disingenous to write the post that syfymoviebuff did, without having bothered to watch the movie. Your premise that I've got some kind of vendetta against others simply because they don't share my opion is incorrect.

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startcopysend,

You made valid points, but it might've been that that person saw a preview of it, years ago, or heard about it. You never know.

Anyway, I actually saw the movie myself and while I thought the dramatic aspects of it & the actual acting were great, I just didn't like the movie.

I ♥ dramas too, but this movie, I just unfortunately didn't like, but one of my favorite dramas is "The Evening Star."

It's an excellent movie and if you haven't seen it, then I highly recommend it! 

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That is true, I may never know, but I still think that watching a preview or hearing about a movie second hand isn't enough to justify calling a movie bull s*** for the reasons he/she did. We may just have to disagree on when benefit of the doubt is worth giving.

Thanks for the recommedation :)

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startcopysend,

Personally, I honestly don't care if they saw the movie or not, liked or disliked it. LOL

I just don't want someone to feel bad because of someone else's comments.

However, I do agree w/you that if someone hasn't seen a movie, then calling a movie stupid if they have no idea what it's about is presumptous and trolling @ best. LOL

You're welcome for the movie recommendation just don't see "Madman" w/Vincent Price. That movie is awful! 

It's scary & suspenseful, but just turns out rather too long-winded and relatively boring !

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You're pontificating and you haven't even seen the film.
Not very intelligent or valid.

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[deleted]

The Natural is a baseball movie! It stole from The Bad News Bears for sure!

Yeah, they're dead; they're--all messed up!

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Two completely different movies with one thing in common, ballet as a major backdrop and two female lead characters. After that, ZERO in common. "The Turning Point" (which I saw at the movie theater when I was a 13 year old ballerina in 1977), is about choices made by two women in similar circumstances but faced with either choosing a career vs. getting married and 'settling down.' The story highlights the 'pros and cons' in each choice as embodied by Deedee (Shirley MacLaine) and Anne Bancroft (Emma). The choice is now Deedee's talented daughter, Emilia, and she already is light years ahead of both her mother and god mother because she recognizes the joy in the MOMENT and not living with regrets. Peace is made and the friends grow even closer.


Whereas the movie "The Black Swan" is two lead female characters in a ballet company, playing out the theme of the ballet they are rehearsing ("Swan Lake"), with lots of sex between the girls and plenty of fantasy scenes - nothing like the "life in your face" themes of "The Turning Point."

And I LOVED the dancing (now a hobby for me), when I watch this movie it takes me back to the first time I saw it, I'm still just as amazed by the leaps and turns performed by Misha, but even moreso the relationship between Shirley and Anne, the love mixed with envy, wondering about the 'road not taken'and the fight! Going at it in the bar and on the roof! Anger dissolving into laughter. Now that I am middle age I have a deeper understanding of the complex relationships and themes that actually make me love it even more.

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There are so many similar scenes though that it takes too long to summarize them. Even short sequences, like when the young ballerina is saying she doesn't know who she is while trying to decide between being a "good girl" or "bad girl" ("bad girl" meaning sexually assertive and unabashed about it -- and the mother is not happy about her newfound sexual desire awakening), the inspecting of the dress for the gala, the vomiting/eating disorder scene, the bath scene with the young ballerina shivering in her towel with wet hair hanging loose down the back and Bancroft mothering her, even the ballerina meeting the two guys in a bar is similar to the more extended Nina/Lily meeting with the guys, the climactic dancing scene, very similar lines throughout, etc etc. Characters are very similar. I just watched this film the other night with my wife (first time viewing it for each of us). We both enjoyed Black Swan even though it tips over into camp more often than into "horror" -- or at least what I consider good horror.

But we also noticed many similarities, which I actually think is rather positive, and it isn't just the dynamic between the leads, which is very similar to the competitive dynamic between Nina and Lily. But there are also the many comments made by Nina's mother -- the scene in which she complains to the daughter that her new independence is "shutting her out," and her comments about why she had to stop dancing. Both Shirley MacLaine and Nina's mother state that having their children ended their careers. They express resentment about this decision instead of deciding to extend their careers. I find Winona's character in Black Swan to be similar to Bancroft's as the aging prima that the younger ballerina admires for choosing independence and her art -- but with great sacrifices, bitterness, and loneliness. I actually appreciated Black Swan a bit more after seeing this film as I have no doubt that Aronofsky saw this film and decided to allude to it and develop some of its characters/storylines. The tempestuous male ballet director is strikingly similar to Vincent Cassel, and Baryshnikov is a more explicit version of the Prince/male object of Nina's sexual desire/competition in Black Swan.

"Hearts and kidneys are tinker toys! I am talking about the central nervous system!"

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Two completely different movies with one thing in common, ballet as a major backdrop and two female lead characters. After that, ZERO in common. "The Turning Point" (which I saw at the movie theater when I was a 13 year old ballerina in 1977), is about choices made by two women in similar circumstances but faced with either choosing a career vs. getting married and 'settling down.' The story highlights the 'pros and cons' in each choice as embodied by Deedee (Shirley MacLaine) and Anne Bancroft (Emma). The choice is now Deedee's talented daughter, Emilia, and she already is light years ahead of both her mother and god mother because she recognizes the joy in the MOMENT and not living with regrets. Peace is made and the friends grow even closer.


Whereas the movie "The Black Swan" is two lead female characters in a ballet company, playing out the theme of the ballet they are rehearsing ("Swan Lake"), with lots of sex between the girls and plenty of fantasy scenes - nothing like the "life in your face" themes of "The Turning Point."

And I LOVED the dancing (now a hobby for me), when I watch this movie it takes me back to the first time I saw it, I'm still just as amazed by the leaps and turns performed by Misha, but even moreso the relationship between Shirley and Anne, the love mixed with envy, wondering about the 'road not taken'and the fight! Going at it in the bar and on the roof! Anger dissolving into laughter. Now that I am middle age I have a deeper understanding of the complex relationships and themes that actually make me love it even more.

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Not Black Swan, but Centre Stage seems to have copied some elements - the young and rebellious choreographer casting the ingenue, the lead dancer as a cad seducing her.

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