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The original Vader concept in Star Wars..

posted 8 years ago by GorchBrother
11 replies | jump to latest

If you try really hard to forget that Empire Strikes Back etc were ever made and Lucas did not decide to make Vader and Luke's dad the same person, you really can get the impression of the kind of dark medieval knight that Vader was inspired by.

Vader is the sort of fanatic henchman and opportunist that is the most sinister enforcer of the corrupt regime who is potentially the most dangerous threat to the good guys but in the final battle either finds himself conveniently placed to avoid capture while his masters are not so lucky, or at the height of the battle their horse is spooked and bolts from the battlefield with him in the saddle or dragged away hanging from the stirrups.

Peter Cushing would usually play that role as the duplicitous black knight or the Saracen ally of a cruel ruler.

The massive success of Vader's costume and sound design though clearly undermined any notion that the implacable, monolithic villain could possibly be dismissed in that way. Lucas realised he was stuck with him so he might as well expand his part and enhance his status.

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

[–] Kruleworld 8 years ago

What little I know of Vader's design, was he was supposed to be able to fly between spaceships, so needed an astronaut suit and helmet. The Japanese samurai and medieval knights influence is a fair guess.

"He's dusted, busted and disgusted, but he's ok"

[–] GorchBrother 8 years ago

I was meaning more his importance to the story than his look. Before he was reconceived (in 1978) to be Luke's father and the once most powerful Jedi.

I've just been seeing a few older adventure movies on TV recently and you can definitely see a few elements being borrowed. The kind of role that Vader fills in this movie is the one that either sufferes and ironic death or is sent with their tails between their legs during the climax.

Lucas has said that he did not anticipate such a strong reaction to Vader's ultimately monolithic stature. And it was only during the final weeks of production, and Lucas felt that the film was working sufficently, that he asked ILM to give the impression that Vader survives. By recycling a shot of his fighter during the battle but with the trench background changed to a starfield and Vader's wingmen removed from it. They also achieved his fighter righting itself by reversing footage that was shot solely to illustrate that Vader was spinning uncontrollably into deep space. (where small fighters can't go on their own - pre mid eighties retconning of Vader's fighter capabilities).

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

[–] Kruleworld 8 years ago

The kind of role that Vader fills in this movie is the one that either sufferes and ironic death or is sent with their tails between their legs during the climax.

in the second draft of ANH, Vader actually kamakazied into Han's pirate ship during the battle of the Death Star. I think his survival was a very late change.

"He's dusted, busted and disgusted, but he's ok"

[–] GorchBrother 8 years ago

That's right. Han's death would have been the sort of emotional turning point of the movie.

Ultimately (and belatedly) Obi Wan's sacrifice took that place in the movie. He had always lived to continue Luke's training. But it became clear that someone dying would greatly improve the movie (but not Han).

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

[–] grendelkhan 8 years ago

Both Vader's and the stormtrooper armors were intended to be pressure suits. The original idea was that they would attack from the void of space, in a scene swiped from EE "Doc" Smith's The Galactic Patrol, first of his Lensman novels (as published, not chronologically in the series). In that book, an early sequence has Boskone pirates (the bad guys) attack a patrol ship, while wearing space armor. they cut their way in and board the ship, where a battle commences, with the Patrol in their own space armor. Hero Kim Kinnison receives a wire recording of the specs for the Boskone's advanced raiding ship and ejects in a lifeboat to get it back to the Galactic Patrol headquarters.

Vader was originally written to be an Imperial general, who is lacking in honor. The leader of the Sith Knights, Prince Valorum, was to be more of the Vader figure, as we know him; but, who switches sides after seeing Vader's cruelty and duplicity.

As shown in the finished film, Tarkin is the chief villain, with Vader essentially serving as the henchman, ala Oddjob and Jaws, in the Bond films.

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[–] GorchBrother 8 years ago

👌 Full marks.

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

[–] ncsr11 8 years ago

Actually, Vader's mask was supposed to resemble a dwarf because of Indian religion that Lucas was inspired by from Joseph Campbell lectures he attended while at university. The representation of Evil as a dwarf.

[–] AdmiralTugBenson 8 years ago

Yeah, he doesn't come across too well in ANH. And he doesn't seem as powerful within the Empire. People speak to him in ways they'd never dare to in the sequels. One guy gets Force choked for it obviously, but Tarkin never does. It seems like his importance within the Empire and how revered/feared he is by others grew quite a bit between ANH and TESB.

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[–] GorchBrother 8 years ago

The reconceived Darth Vader/Luke's dad doesn't exactly come across in ANH.

He was never "the most powerful jedi" before 1978. Just an anachronism caught up in the bureaucracy and the Imperial hieracrchy. It was inspired by Hitler's and the Roman empire's divide and rule policy.

The off the scale response he got from the public meant that Vader was played up as being beyond reproach by any Imperial officer, but still subservient to the commander in chief.

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

[–] ZakkWyldeMyLittlePony 8 years ago

It would've been interesting to see Anakin and Vader as separate characters if the idea of Vader being Luke's father never came about.

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[–] AndrewGS 8 years ago

Can someone be both an opportunist and a fanatic? Maybe, if they're really low on honor.

I think it was implied even in the original film that Obi-Wan had once been closed to his then-pupil and hurt by his betrayal although by the present he had completely disowned him.