MovieChat Forums > Star Wars (1977) Discussion > So why DO Jedi train for decades?

So why DO Jedi train for decades?

posted 6 years ago by Otter (24464)
9 replies | jump to latest

Okay, Luke shows advanced Force-trick skills with a few days training, and Rey is able to grasp the basics instinctively once she's exposed to the Force, yet in the prequels we find out that Jedi train from early childhood to adulthood before becoming full-blown jedi knights.

Why, if the Force is so easy for some people to grasp?

Well, someone else pointed out that Luke may have learned Force tricks amazingly quickly, but as of TESB he used them all wrong, in a spirit of anger and revenge, and was badly defeated as a result. But if human Jedi take a couple of decades to learn to use their powers wisely, because humans don't naturally use power wisely... then why didn't any of Anakin's teachers realize he was totally failing to grasp Jedi wisdom or detachment?

[–] AP (5256) 6 years ago

Luke didn't learn quickly. His one and only major Force feat in this movie was hitting a small target. It was stated and shown that a skilled pilot could hit the target but it would just be really difficult. Obviously the Force allowed Luke to make the one in a million shot. It was amazing but not superhuman. In ESB, he moved a lightsaber about two feet after concentrating quite a bit. Then he failed in every lesson with Yoda and got his ass kicked by Vader. It wasn't until Return of the Jedi that he seemed fully comfortable in his powers. ROTJ takes place about 6-7 years after ANH.

As for Anakin, the Jedi Order put up with him because he was the Chosen One. He was known as having a lot of potential power and was great with a saber but was generally a reckless fool. In Revenge of the Sith, Yoda even surmised that the prophecies might have been misread. Also keep in mind that he was excluded from being a part of the Jedi Council and the only reason why he was allowed up there was because of Palpatine's machinations.

Beyond that, we have to remember that Anakin was born from the Force itself and Luke was his kid (essentially a grandson of the Force). They were both described as being abnormally powerful Force users who were trained at a time when they would normally be too old (Luke in particular). Leia also showed signs of having Force powers simply due to her lineage.

In the novels, comics, cartoons, etc. we see other Force sensitive people undergoing training in one way or another over a certain amount of time. The Skywalkers are unique in that they did more with less training.

[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

"His one and only major Force feat in this movie was hitting a small target."

With only a few seconds of "urging" by Ben, Luke was able to anticipate the shots from a floating taser bot, as well as block the shots without using his eyes. That's pretty impressive for someone who didn't even know the Force existed.

"In ESB, he moved a lightsaber about two feet after concentrating quite a bit."

Yet he couldn't have ever seen a Force Pull done, thus he wouldn't know it was possible. He got no training. Nothing. He basically invented a Force technique out of need.

"The Skywalkers are unique in that they did more with less training."

Except Leia. She didn't want to show off any Force powers because she was afraid of being called a Mary Sue by sexist man-children who manipulate fantasy fiction to their own needs and decide to randomly define "hard rules" about the Force when it suits their anti-female agenda.

It wasn't until Return of the Jedi that he seemed fully comfortable in his powers. ROTJ takes place about 6-7 years after ANH.

And yet Luke had no further training. He had no one to train him in lightsaber combat. Yet somehow he beats a super-powerful Sith WHO WAS CONCEIVED BY THE FORCE and who had been using a lightsaber longer than Luke had been alive.

Oh but they're Skywalkers, and even though this galaxy is huge and the Jedi have been around for thousands of years, the Skywalkers are the only people who can pick up the Force in a more natural way with little to no training.

Well, except for the first people to recognize the Force and utilize/develop Force powers. They had no training. They created the training.

Some people go to college to prove they're capable. Some people succeed without college. Some people are natural virtuosos at certain subjects, like math geniuses.

That's not genetic, either. The Skywalkers may be a fluke, but to pretend they're the only flukes that ever existed in all of Star Wars and the only flukes that COULD ever exist... Well, to declare something like that requires an agenda.

In the end, it's fantasy based on fictional magical powers that are designed to enhance people beyond normal capabilities. That throws a lot of limits out the window and puts so much into question.

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

Damn, you sure are butthappy about MaREY Sue, aren't you?

[–] AP (5256) 6 years ago

There are inherent abilities within Force-sensitive people such as fast reflexes and intuition, which was why Anakin didn't die while pod racing (although never even finish until the very last time), Luke could deflect three taser shots with a lightsaber (after getting shot a few too many times and almost quitting in frustration), and Leia was able to sense that Luke didn't die during the Deathstar II explosion or know to turn the ship around at the end of Empire Strikes Back.

Yes, Luke grabbed a lightsaber while on Hoth but going by EU, Obi-Wan had been instructing him in the three years between A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. That stuff is probably non-canon now but it's easy to infer that Obi-Wan was around during the time to teach him. What else would he be doing? You also seem to just assume he didn't train with Yoda on how to use a lightsaber for some odd reason. Not that it matters too much as his first lightsaber duel ended with him getting his hand cut off and sobbing before trying to commit suicide. Not exactly his best moment.

As for Leia, I loved the EU books in which she was a full fledged Jedi who was revealed to be more powerful than her brother. Yoda wanted to train her and not Luke, after all. Of course, you wouldn't know any of that. It's all non-canon now anyway I guess, but I liked that she "flew" in Last Jedi despite what others say. It's been 30 years since she learned she was a Skywalker. It makes sense that she learned a few things.

[–] Otter (24464) 6 years ago

Personally, I think that Leia developed her Force powers, but kept them secret.

Because she really would have thought that establishing a new representative government was the most important job in the galaxy, more important that re-establishing a religion and order that she didn't understand, and it was a job that she could do best. And you know what? It's a job she couldn't do if she were known as a Force user! Politics is about negotiation, trust and mistrust, battles of wits, relationships, balancing acts... none of which she could participate in if she were known to do "Jedi Mind Tricks". If she'd come out as a Force user or Jedi, nobody would negotiate with her or form political alliances with her, and she wouldn't be able to be part of the new government.

So it's my one-fan theory that she always used the Force, but kept it secret until it was time to use it in front of people or die, and she had to decide in a millisecond.

[–] AP (5256) 6 years ago

I like that theory. It's now my head canon!

[–] avortac4 (3443) 3 years ago

" It wasn't until Return of the Jedi that he seemed fully comfortable in his powers. "

I didn't realize COMFORT was the ultimate goal for learning powers (of any kind). Weird.

In any case, yeah, he's really adept with those levitation powers, when that trapdoor that he DIDN'T foresee with the force, opens up under him, and then he fights a monster by NOT using the force to flick the switch or controlling the weak mind, but 100% PHYSICALLY, by actually THROWING A ROCK instead of force-throwing it at least.

Yep, very comfortable with force powers indeed.

Frankly, he did much better in the previous movie, at least he used a light saber and kept telekinetically levitating things. He doesn't do THAT until near the end, when he painstakingly, and seemingly with JUST as much and long concentration, levitates the droid a couple of seconds - not that much bigger feat than the early lightsaber move.

[–] Conan1982 (53) 6 years ago

It seems like spending 20 years training as a Jedi is just as pointless as spending 20 years trying to rationalize the prequels.

It's just not worth the trouble.

[–] Otter (24464) 6 years ago

I like that theory. It's now my head canon!

Seriously, I expect that most of those twenty years were spent teaching the kids the Jedi rules and regulations and history and ethics and history of ethics and the laws regarding superpower use on every planet in the galaxy. Come to think of it, would twenty years be enough for all that shit?