MovieChat Forums > Maladolescenza (1977) Discussion > How cut is 'uncut'? What is original lan...

How cut is 'uncut'? What is original language?


This post is partly in reply to p-bowman’s review and the questions he poses, though I can only reply with more questions.

Several French/Italian sources give the original film length as 127 minutes (also 117 and 124) so it is clear that the present “uncut” version in circulation, of around 91 minutes, is not that. One source says the original version was “unseen” (at least in Germany), another suggests it was shown on French TV before being banned. Hints at unseen material are given in the “flashback” sequence near the end of the film, where some of the shots are not from the film as seen; the same applies to some of the publicity stills. Anyone able to shed any light on this missing footage? Was it ever released? Does it still exist?

I also suggest that the film’s original language is English, not Italian or German, as both of these versions appear to be dubbed. Lip-reading strongly suggests English, or American English, in several sequences. Anyone agree, or able to confirm this? Both actresses, at least, had multi-national backgrounds.

reply

I've never read anything about a 127 min cut of the film. If you could please post the website with that information.

In regards to flashbacks at the end, I do not remember seeing any flashbacks that were not in the 91 min. cut. In regards to the strange pictures surfacing of scenes not in the film, these are simply publicity shots. Many publicity shots are taken for cover reasons. The most famous publicity shot not shown in the film itself involves Laura & Fabrizio on the beach together. This, I believe is not evidence of another deleted scene but of an alternate cover. I have seen many American films with stills that were not in the film and were simply shot for promotional reasons.

In regards to the film's original language, you are right it was not in Italian or German. However it was not in english either, it was in french. The official 91 min dvd version features the fully restored Frrench soundtrack along with alternate soundtracks dubbed in different languages. The only English is in regards to the subtitles.

reply

I accept your comments about the stills, but it is inconclusive. I haven't seen the film for a while but I am sure the "flashback" sequence has a scene of Fabrizio and Eva's character lying down that was not in the main film.

I have just trawled the net for the sources I recalled. I can not find the French website that looked authoritative and gave some history. However, Wikipedia France gives 127 minutes (v.o. = original version)
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeux_interdits_de_l'adolescence

Wikipedia Germany mentions an “unseen original version” of 117 minutes
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spielen_wir_Liebe#Sonstiges

These sites all give 127 minutes though I accept they could all use the same source
http://www.speedylook.com/Prohibited_plays_of_adolescence.html
http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/Maladolescenza
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Maladolescenza
http://www.freebase.com/view/en/maladolescenza
http://www.tntvillage.scambioetico.org/index.php?act=showrelease&id=150861
http://wapedia.mobi/fr/Jeux_interdits_de_l%27adolescence

I am very curious about the genesis of this very curious film, but there is little information. An inside source from cast or crew would be useful! One source says it was partly shot in Czechoslovakia to avoid censorship issues.

What is this "official" dvd with original French language?

reply

the offical dvd with french soundtrack does run around 91 min.

I remember the flash back scene you are referring to as well. It seems it was complete on my DVD. There is two scenes where both Fabrizio & Silvia make love, both involves nudity and they are both laying down. I have seen the wikipedia sources quote as saying 127 min. but i am weary to accept this fact because it does not give an explanation as to the different censorship cuts. The most severe edit of this film I ever saw was with a running time of 78 min.

reply

What is this "official" dvd with French language? Produced by...?

I am just curious to know whether the film was actually released at 127 minutes before censorship, in which case the deleted footage will likely reside in archives somewhere, as opposed to mere editing when it would probably be destroyed. The quotation 127 minutes in many sources suggests the former.

Somehow I doubt we are ever going to see the Director's Cut of this one!

reply

There is no 127-min version of this movie.


Do The Mussolini! Headkick!

reply

Ah... but WAS there?

reply

No.


Do The Mussolini! Headkick!

reply

and if there was a version with an additional half hour of more graphic sex scenes that would really be stepping over the line of decency and people would lose respect for it's artistic value. how can anybody believe that there could exist an even more explicit version of THIS film??

reply

Stuff like this becomes 'urban legend.' If there ever was a 127 minute version of this film, you will never find it, considering the age and obscurity of the title, along with all the legal problems associated with it. but this could be an explanation. Maybe it was premiered at 127 minutes in a theatre, and then cut for running time/pacing reasons. They did this with Pasolini's "Arabian nights." It originally played at Cannes with a running time of 155 minutes. The distributors of the film decided that it was simply too long, and they had Pasolini cut an entire sequence, 30 minutes! to this day, that footage is lost, no dvd has it, even Criterion. It upsets me because "Arabian nights" is my all-time favorite film and i would love to see that lost footage. And that film is alot more well-known than "Maladolescenza,"
Another erotic themed film, the original "Emmanuelle" is listed on IMDB as 105 minutes. It is simply untrue, that version does not exist. i too am curious about this crazy movie, but i think it will remain a mystery.

reply

DVD covers frequently mis-state running time as 1xx min,
when in fact the runtime is 1 hr xx min.
I surmise this is the case.

That means it was 1h27m = 87 min, which would mean a cut
6 min shorter than the 'uncut' version.

Cheers

reply

The version I have is 91 mins. And if what I saw is cut, which I don't believe it is, I would HATE to see the uncut version.
As for the scene of Fabrizio and Sylvia lying down completely naked on the grass in the flashback (I presume you mean the one where he is face up and she is face down), I have seen lots of films and TV shows where they show bits in a flashback that weren't actually in the film or show. This doesn't necessarily mean that it's cut. Maybe that scene wasn't necessary in the main film and fit in better as a brief flashback.
And the original language has got me confused, too. Lara Wendel is originally German, Eva Ionesco is originally French, and the film is supposedly Italian. The director is Italian (I presume, from his name). Even as I was watching with English subtitles, I noticed the dialogue was dubbed in Italian, as it was out of sync with the actors' mouths. And at many points, watching their lips closely, I was convinced the actors were speaking in sync with the English subtitles.
I need a lie down...

I'm still working on my signature...

reply

Kalvin; I have a question for you; You have a French dvd for "Maladolescenza??" A few years ago I bought the German dvd from the label 'X-Rated Kult' from a mailorder shop in Austria. Really beautiful edition that comes in an oversized cardboard box that makes the dvd look like a hardcover book. Soon after I bought it the film was deemed not legal inside Germany and all copies were recalled. (I guess that means its worth some bucks today...) anyway i thought this was the only legitimate release of this movie, and the only audio options are German and Italian, with optional english titles. The Italian looked and sounded quite natural, i had no idea it was filmed in french. Please tell me where you found your copy, as I heard it was never released in either France or Italy. i love the film by the way, i think it's one of the most realistic films about bullying and psychological violence among children, (I hate to admit it but at that age, i was cruel and controlling in the exact same way as Fabrizio, and seeing it in a movie freaked me out a bit. I grew out of that behavior a long time ago luckily, but the experience lets me know what a realistic portrayal this film is!) Anyway if you have info on the french language version, let me know, and thanks!

reply

@ hodkinn - I'm glad someone else thinks the original language looks like English! Love to know...
@ kalvinharp, we're still asking about this "official" French edition of yours...
@ asgardsreil - I agree with your comments. This film affected me in a similar way, and a movie that is so affecting has to have some artistic worth. I happen to think it's rather good, totally unique, too explicit but if it drives a few moralnuts to apoplexy then that's a price well worth paying :-)

However, you are both assuming that any "cut" material was even more explicit and this does not have to be the case. It could just be fairly uneventful scenes, whose omission does not remove any "action" but does upset the narrative flow. The film I have in the back of my mind is "The Wicker Man" (1973), another cult classic from the same year, where the production company butchered the film before release. Some of the missing material (about 15 minutes) has been restored, adding so much to the logic of the story overall. However there is still more footage that is probably lost forever, which would be even more valuable (the scripts are available, unlike Maladolescenza). My feeling is that there are "non-sequiturs" in Maladolescenza that suggest cut footage, but I may be wrong. As you say, it will probably remain a mystery ... unless the full story becomes known one day. Surely someone who was involved in the enterprise would love to talk about it now?

reply

[deleted]

I have a version that runs for 1 hour 30 minutes and 59 seconds. It is Italian spoken.

reply

As far as I know:
The uncut version runs 1:30:59 (~91min) (@ 25 fps on dvd). I suspect slightly longer versions are because of lower framerates (eg. ntsc @ 23.976 fps). This is also what most wiki pages say now. There is no reference to a 127min version. I think this was a mix-up with 1h 27min, too.
There is promotional material never intended for use in the film itself, but for covers ect..
I know of uncut versions with italian, german and russian sound. The only version in french is a cut french vhs.
http://www.ofdb.de/view.php?page=fassung&fid=19096&vid=115437

I can only find source which state that italian is the original language. The text (credits etc.) is italian, too. And subtitled single language version, eg. the japanese version has italian sound with japanese subtitels.
I cannot check for lipsync, but i think italian is the original language.

Not all european countries consider this child pornography. For example: while it's banned in germany for child porn, it's not in austria.

EDIT:
This site (http://www.dtm.at/Reviews/Review-Maladolescenza.htm) says:
"Anmerkung: Einige kurze Szenen sind im englischen Original mit deutschen Untertiteln. Diese wurden offensichtlich vorab geschnitten und auch nie synchronisiert."
In english:
"annotation: Some short scene are in the original english language with german subtitles. These were apparently cut in advance and were never dubbed."
This would mean, that the original is indeed english.

reply

Firstly thanks to all who contributed to this thread, and for maintaining interest in this strange film. I still hope that someone involved in the endeavour will one day enlighten us with its bizarre history. Eva Ionesco perhaps? You were the first to review and recommend it here, apparently.

Regarding the original language, I have been reading a little about Italian horror/giallo movies of the period, and it seems that it was standard procedure at the time to dub the soundtrack on these films for release. Often, for some reason (maybe a multi-ethnic cast?), the film was shot in English and dubbed into Italian. In other words, Maladolescenza could have been shot (wholly, or in part) in English simply as a matter of routine, with no intention of ever releasing it in English. The three actors were fairly "multi-cultural" by background (Italian/French/German etc.), and maybe they were most comfortable with English as a lingua franca. Nothing more than that.

Regarding the original running time, the film was withdrawn just 3 days after its release in Germany due to the controversy, and only reissued later in its heavily edited form. I guess the only way to be sure of the original length is to trawl the Munich newspaper archives of the time. Any offers?

I don't know what happened in Italy where, according to this board, the release was a month earlier.

reply

In Italy, the film was actually quite well-received. There, of course, were some in the general public who thought it was distasteful, but by and large critics and other film industry people and the art film/intellectual crowd really acclaimed it.

Even film titans such as Sergio Leone and Marco Ferreri praised the film.

I have seen a review from an Italian paper at the time that's headline translates as, "Troubled adolescent games in the enchanted forest of Murgia". The review is pretty positive.

Another noted Italian critic was quoted in the film's promotion as saying, "Disturbing yet heartbreaking. A film of our times. A film both brilliant and problematic."

Sergio Leone is quoted in the film's Italian ads as saying, "It is one of the most beautiful films I have ever seen in my life."

And, the film seems to have done well at the Italian box office, as well.

Roger Corman's New World Pictures company, in the US, released the film about a year and a half later, in a few US cities. It went largely unnoticed, except for a 1978 "20/20" TV segment that was actually debating the use of very young people in nude and sexual situations in (then) current films. They talked about Jodie Foster in "Taxi Driver" and "The Little Girl Who Lives Down the Lane", they talked about Linda Blair, they talked briefly about "Maladolescenza", and they talked about Brooke Shields in "Pretty Baby". There was a big law regarding child pornography going before congress at the time, and several lawmakers were citing the way that even mainstream Hollywood was beginning to sexualize children onscreen. Other than this segment on an episode of "20/20" (from October 1978), the film "Maladolescenza" doesn't seem to have even been noticed much in the USA. It opened in two NYC locations in late September, 1978, where it played without incident. In October, it played in about a half dozen other major cities for a week or two before being pulled from release and disappearing forever. Shortly after this, a strict anti-child pornography law was passed in the US and the UK, and the film has never been re-issued here.

And as for some reflection from the cast today, Eva Ionesco has been very vocal recently about those days. She is now 47, and has written and directed a film called, "I'm Not a *beep* Princess!", which is loosely based on her relationship with her mother, Irena. She has also written a tell-all book that basically decribes her mother as a madam/pimp. She loathes her mother, and has sued her four times, unsuccessfully, to get the negatives to all nude photos her mother took of her when she was a child. She believes her mother exploited her, and that she was traumatized by this. She alleges to have been molested repeatedly by grown men during that period, and says she was humiliated by her mother's exploitation. She hasn't said much that I'm aware of about this film directly, but I would assume this falls in with the rest. In other words, Eva herself is no big supporter of this film. She even has a Facebook. Look her up.

reply

Finally learning more and more about this unique film, which is no easy task, I can assure you.

I've been learning more and more about its creator, Pier Giuseppe Murgia, and his original intent. It seems very nearly everyone is waayyy off. For some reason that I'm unsure of, he looks different than I thought he would. To me, in 1977, he bore a vaguely passing resemblance to Christopher Nolan of today, LOL! He was a blonde haired, blue eyed, clean cut guy, with hipster bangs and a black leather jacket. He also has a prominent, pouty-looking bottom lip.

He was born in Italy in 1940, and was originally more of a novelist than a filmmaker. In 1960, at just the age of 20, he published his first novel, called "Il Ragazzo di Fuoco" ("The Boys of Fire"), and apparently it was quite scandalous. A year later, he published a collection of short stories, in 1961 when he was 21, it was called...are you ready?... "La Mala Adolescenza" ("The Bad Adolescents"), and was not connected to the later film of a similar title except that it was about troubled teens and had sex and violence in it. But these were BOOKS, not films, and the writer was quite young himself, so there wasn't really too much trouble. Apparently, though, most of his writings during this period dealt with young people and sex and other scandalous things.

His other books followed, and he also regularly contributed poetry and short stories to various literary magazines and such in Italy at the time. He published another book, called "Il Buoncostume", as well as a book of stories called, "Chronicles of Fascism After the Resistance: 1945-1950".

His first foray into screenwriting came in 1974, when he co-wrote a script called, "Bali". He worked on several other scripts and even dabbled in still art photography in the mid-70s. Finally, he wrote and directed his first feature film, "Maladolescenza", in 1976. It was released in 1977.

Now, as for the film itself, no one of today that I have come across has quite interpreted it properly, with regard to Murgia's original intentions. His ambitions, it seems, were far greater than anyone really has caught onto today. Regardless of the now endless debates about the film's morality, of the morality of using actors THAT young in simulated sexual scenes, or of the film's legality in today's world, the original intent of Murgia (which I have constantly seen people wonder about in these boards), had little to do with that. In addition, this film is not merely a tender "coming-of-age" story, or a story about painful rites of passage, or a study of juvenile bullying, like many of its supporters claim. It was also not intended, at least not conciously or overtly it seems, as titilation or child pornography, either. Murgia explained in 1977 that the film is a dreamlike, fairy-tale-like metaphor for fascism and its corruption of the innocent. (Now, honestly, who really in these boards understood THAT?!?). It's all about context, it seems. Remember, this was an era when Pier Paolo Pasolini had just made "Salo", and Bertolucci had made films like "The Conformist" and "Novecento/1900". And the communists/socialists/intellectuals/artists of post-WWII Italy were in full swing. The film is a character study of a typical 70s anti-hero (Murgia likened Fabrizio to Travis Bickle!!!), who is not supposed to be entirely sympathetic. Fabrizio represents the "angry young man" of the proletariat, working classes. Lara Wendel's Laura represents the working class innocent, and Sylvia represents the spoiled, cruel, lazy, bratty child of the bourgousie fascists. Fabrizio draws nearer and nearer to the cruelty and opportunism that led so many angry young men to embrace anarchic fascism and Nazism with an unholy furor, and they represented a "rape" of the innocence and purity of the proletariat, or working classes. The fascists, represented by Sylvia, used pretty packaging and manipulation and cruelty to "lure" the angry young men into the fold, and used their advantages to have power over the young men, who then imitated this, and used a false sense of their own power to further abuse the "weak" in their midst. Laura represents the genuine, the pure, the loving, even more mature, the voice of reason, of conscience, the maternal, the motherly, who is continuously raped, abused, mocked by the fasicst and her slave, who thinks HE'S in charge. If there is intended to be a sympathetic protaganist, it is Laura, but even then she is indicted to a degree for being the too-willing victim. Ultimately, we see the fall of fascism in Sylvia's death, and the shame and regret and lonliness and fall from grace of the followers through Fabrizio, and the ultimate re-emergence and survival of Laura, who is still loving and forgiving. All the while the sex is merely representative of the abuse of commodities to abuse power, like in Pasolini's "Salo". In other words, no way is this sex supposed to be erotic, in any way shape or form. The first sex scene (in the cave)is an all out violation of Laura, and the later sex scene is a punishment, a shaming of Laura. The frolicking about and cavorting of Fabrizio and Sylvia after that, which appears to have erotic intent, is still intended as illusory. Fabrizio is living in a fake world of fake comforts, outwardly rejecting conformity (ie, living in the forest), while hypocritically embracing it, frolicking with the girl who represents it. He first breaks the window of the people in the fancy tower, and later can't bring himself to. Laura is the only one of consistently good character. Other little nuances include the boy using his dog to terrorize Laura. (ie the Nazis using German shepherds to hunt their prey). There is also a reason this film was a GERMAN-ITALIAN production. See the connection? In the end, one can debate the morality/legality of using young kids in the film, but there is certainly one thing that is clear: Murgia most certainly had a serious, political, and artistic intent when he made the film. That much is certain.

All of this massive description pretty much comes from Murgia himself, in the Italian press, circa 1977.

Sadly, removed from the context of that time and political understanding, this film ,like "Salo", is likely to be misunderstood completely, with people focusing entirely on the "lurid" content and the "shock value".

Surprisingly, a clear understanding of the film doesn't necessarily save it, either. That seems to be the case with a judge in the Netherlands, who was among the judges who declared the film "child pornography" there in 2010. This judge argued that he understood the film completely, but that that only made it worse to him. He says that, in trying to make a film about the human exploitation committed by fascists, when using children to metaphorically act out this exploitation, the filmmakers have inadvertantly made a film that, by its own admission, is literally ABOUT the exploitation of children.

Not sure if I agree with his conclusion there, but it is ceratinly food for thought.

I have a much deeper understanding of what the film is actually supposed to be about now, after tons of curious, exhaustive research.

Incidentally, Pier Giuseppe Murgia actually has an official website now! Likely due to the renewed interest in this film in recent years.

It is simply wwww.piergiuseppemurgia.com


I know this was a helluva long post, but I hope it was the most helpful post these boards have seen yet!!!

reply