MovieChat Forums > Julia (1978) Discussion > Goof Not Valid

Goof Not Valid

posted 18 years ago by tanist67
17 replies | jump to latest

Whoever wrote the GOOF about how easy it was to transfer money into Nazi Europe obviously was not around at the time, probably American and didn't watch the film properly - or read the probably true story. The object was to move the money to help persecuted people - Julia was in Austria and needed to cover her tracks. That she was discovered in the end and killed is the internal evidence.

Whoever wrote the curious comment about the film being a 'lesbian love-story' knows nothing either about girls or women !

[–] Eowyn1967 18 years ago

Whoever wrote the curious comment about the film being a 'lesbian love-story' knows nothing either about girls or women!

Very True.

[–] Tjcat 18 years ago

I agree this is NOT a film about lesbians. The respect, genuine concern and love shared between Julia and Lillian is that of sisters, not related by blood. The nightmare scene when Lillian is running through the train depot shouting, "Mr. Johann, Mr. Johann" gives me chills to this day. The cinematography and set dressing is impeccable. As Lillian is preparing to embark for Paris on the oceanliner, Dashiel Hammett on the dock is silently waving his hat while the orchestra is playing "Night and Day." What a romantically beautiful but indescribably sad time in history, the advent of the beginning of WWII. Julia is and will remain one of my top ten if not top five film favorites for many years to come.

[–] jrhpax 17 years ago

We can agree that "Julia" is not about lesbians. But in the context of THE MOVIE, the screenwriter, Alvin Sargent, apparently taking Lillian Hellman's story at face value, suggests that the friendship between Lillian and Julia inspired the play "The Children's Hour."

Since we know that there WAS no friendship between Lillian and Julia, it begs the question: Where did Hellman get the idea for the play?

The play is so antiquated in its attitudes toward lesbianism that the world would be better off without it. (One of the lesbians commits suicide in the end.) But I suppose that at least the play made the subject a matter of public discussion. We can be happy that no revivals of the play are likely!

I will always love Mary McCarthy's quote about Lillian Hellman: "Every word she writes is a lie, including 'and' and 'the.' "

If Hellman's story had been honest, I think that the movie "Julia" would have rung truer to me. Nevertheless, it has many fine moments, and I enjoyed it.

[–] nyctom 17 years ago

Hellman got the idea for "A Children's Hour" from an infamous court case involving two female schoolteachers in Scotland. The plot of the play follows the outlines of the court case pretty closely. Her relationship with "Julia" had nothing to do with the play.

In fact, given Hellman's penchant for embroidering her personal history, many doubt whether the story of Julia as recounted in Hellman's memoir *Pentimento* is, shall we say, entirely accurate...

Of course that doesn't take anything away from a very very fine film. 1977 was a fantastic year for actresses.

[–] Simplythebest11962 9 years ago

by nyctom » Tue Jul 10 2007 09:42:47
IMDb member since June 2003
Hellman got the idea for "A Children's Hour" from an infamous court case involving two female schoolteachers in Scotland. The plot of the play follows the outlines of the court case pretty closely. Her relationship with "Julia" had nothing to do with the play.

In fact, given Hellman's penchant for embroidering her personal history, many doubt whether the story of Julia as recounted in Hellman's memoir *Pentimento* is, shall we say, entirely accurate...

Of course that doesn't take anything away from a very very fine film. 1977 was a fantastic year for actresses.

nyctom,

you're right! "the children's hour" was based on a true Scottish case about a wealthy private boarding school in Scotland where the headmistress and a teacher are accused of the unthinkable!

Engaging in a lesbian relationship.

The article about that true case is still available somewhere in one of the Scottish newspapers because I read it not that many months ago.

"It's a good thing!"--Martha Stewart


[–] 9 years ago

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[–] janet-conant 11 years ago

Beautifully written Tjcat. I so agree. I love everything about Julia and still love it when I first saw it in 1977.

[–] Simplythebest11962 9 years ago

by Tjcat » Tue Sep 5 2006 11:00:36 Flag ▼ | Reply |
IMDb member since May 2006
I agree this is NOT a film about lesbians. The respect, genuine concern and love shared between Julia and Lillian is that of sisters, not related by blood. The nightmare scene when Lillian is running through the train depot shouting, "Mr. Johann, Mr. Johann" gives me chills to this day. The cinematography and set dressing is impeccable. As Lillian is preparing to embark for Paris on the oceanliner, Dashiel Hammett on the dock is silently waving his hat while the orchestra is playing "Night and Day." What a romantically beautiful but indescribably sad time in history, the advent of the beginning of WWII. Julia is and will remain one of my top ten if not top five film favorites for many years to come.

LOL @ "I agree this is NOT a film about lesbians."

Initially, I was starting to think they were lesbians, but of course, since Lillian was with Dash, then that immediately was dismissed in my thinking.

This is a movie about courage and doing the right thing as well as about a lifelong bond, a friendship between two women who overcome insurmountable circumstances.

I especially liked the narrration by Jane Fonda both @ the beginning & ending. It was sad, poignant, heart-felt, and well-stated.

She really evoked emotion in those two scenes.

I also liked the part where she spoke to Mr. Johan @ the train station: "Hello, Mr. Johan, I said...HELLO, MR. JOHAN!"

That was really a powerful symbolic scene. She was believable & didn't take a serious, scary moment for granted, but instead did a great job of making it believable that she was trying to convey a sense of urgency that ONLY those two people in that scene could understand.

"It's a good thing!"--Martha Stewart


[–] Isaac5855 17 years ago

You're right...you have to wonder if the person who wrote that Goof actually saw the movie.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] scottsteaux63-735-780576 11 years ago

"Whoever wrote the curious comment about the film being a 'lesbian love-story' knows nothing either about girls or women!"

Well, sorta kinda. Of course it is not a 'lesbian love story;' that is far too simplistic and obvious. However, in the "Julia" chapter of PENTIMENTO, Hellman writes of "the love I had for her, too strong and complicated to be dismissed as the sexual yearnings of one girl to another. And yet that was certainly there."

This ties in quite well with Fonda's performance as Hellman. While she is clearly in love with Dash and he represents the closest thing to stability that she knows, for most of the film she is just totally crushed out on Julia.

It is possible for a story of a deep friendship between people of the same sex to have sexual undertones (though you'd never get any straight man to admit it, even with all those "buddy" movies out there); that does not necessarily make it a "gay" or "Lesbian" love story. The two things are quite different.

Never mess with a middle-aged, Bipolar queen with AIDS and an attitude problem!
roflol ><

[–] Simplythebest11962 9 years ago

scottsteaux63-735-780576,

I thought they might be lesbians. Simply because Lillian is too adamant about getting back in touch with Julia for it to be a simple friendship or even best friendship.

It was a good movie, but the ironic plot twist of turning Lillian into America's answer for Britain's James Bond 007 was shocking!

I honestly thought it was going to be a movie about a woman & her writer's block & losing her writer's block by going on an Parisian adventure with her best friend. 

I think that would have made for an interesting movie. 

"It's a good thing!"--Martha Stewart



[–] xdayton 9 years ago

Both Hellman and the film went out of their way to make sure we do not mistake her for a lesbian (despite writing about her schoolgirl yearnings, she was a notorious homophobe). The scene where she smacks Sammy (John Glover) when he suggests she and Julia are lesbians makes it clear: No, we're not.

[–] Simplythebest11962 9 years ago

Oh okay, that makes sense.

Happy St. Patrick's Day!

🍀

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] Simplythebest11962 9 years ago

LOL @ "lesbian love story."

I began to think they were lesbians in the movie, but I knew they were just close best friends who had a strong non-sexual emotional bond.

That was all.

Some people let their minds run wild. 

"It's a good thing!"--Martha Stewart

