MovieChat Forums > Cet obscur objet du désir (1977) Discussion > The one question no one's asking

The one question no one's asking

posted 14 years ago by C.S.Wood
20 replies | jump to latest

How many guys would really put up with Conchita's bullcrap?

Maybe Mathieu really did just want sex from Conchita and to possess her, and maybe he deserved the pain, anger and heartbreak he got. But was Conchita any better? She claims to love him, but has a very unusual way of showing it. Relationships are about give and take. He gave, she took.

Conchita claimed that Mathieu tried to buy her, which does have validity. But isn't that they way it's supposed to go? If women didn't like presents or eating at expensive restaurants then men wouldn't spend their money on those things. If Mathieu bought her nothing he'd be seen as a cheap-sake. Meanwhile, Conchita got a house out of the deal and all Mathieu got was to second base.

Then, when Mathieu finally manages to break away from her, Conchita tracks him down and gets him to come back. Why? Conchita was very beautiful and alluring, but not enough to warrant the amount of trouble and grief she put Mathieu through. Neither are innocent, but Conchita comes off as far more malicious.

And really, who would be willing to put up with a person like that? Even if you were deeply madly in love with them, if you're not getting anything out of the relationship except hurt feelings. Maybe Mathieu was a masochist, or maybe he was just a fool. But he must have really loved her if he was willing to put up with that amount of bullcrap AND take her back. But what proof did Mathieu have that she cared anything for him?

Who cares? He's a cheeseburger.

[–] west-travel 14 years ago

Mathieu didn't need proof. He wanted to possess her. It was frenzied love... perhaps not even love at all but obsession. And I think you're wrong about Conchita's beauty. If a woman that beautiful (especially Angela Molina) isn't worth obsessing about then no woman is.

[–] C.S.Wood 14 years ago

Don't get me wrong, there are lots of women that are worth obsessing over, but no woman (or man) is worth the kind of pain an agony Mathieu gets put through. Conchita quite effectively breaks Mathieu's heart and spirit, and does so right after he gets her a house on top of it.

I don't care if the woman looks like Marilyn Monroe, screws like Jenna Haze and cooks like a top chef. There's only so much bullcrap I can take before I call it quits (especially if no sex is being had). But this movie depends on Mathieu willing to crawl over broken glass to be with Conchita and Conchita using him. That's what makes it such a compelling drama.

"Who cares? He's a cheeseburger." -- Stewie Griffin

[–] yoshware 13 years ago

I strongly agree with you, C.S.Wood! Mathieu should have quit much earlier. Certainly there wouldn't have been a movie then.
But perhaps, the movies intent was to show to all those guys, suffering under women like Conchita, that they're not so bad off, by exaggerating.

For me it was at the point when she was doing the guy behind the locked door, when I could finally stop nodding my head ...

[–] catpukecatplsswhatsthediff 13 years ago

Here's the thing dude:

He tried to buy her, and then he tried to rape her then he had her an her mother deported because he "couldn't stop himself from seeing her." Really? It's not that hard to stop seeing someone. Then he tracked her down, interrupted her at her work. Gave her a house, of his own freewill. Beat her ass, when she slept with someone in front of him (although I think she was telling the truth that they were play acting, because that dude did seem a bit effeminate).

He was kind of an abusive, possessive attempted rapist.

[–] C.S.Wood 13 years ago

Alright, let's go back to the "tried to rape her" part. I'm not saying he wasn't, but if he really wanted to rape her he'd have gotten a knife or some scissors and cut that things off (and I doubt he'd have confessed it to a train car full of people). And why would she continue to deal with him if he tried to rape her?

Yes, he interrupted her at work, but he didn't mean to get her in trouble. She quit that job of her own free will.

And about him buying her a house. How many women do you know WOULDN'T like it if a man bought them a house? Women like gifts. That doesn't mean she had to put out, but making him think she slept with that other guy was especial demented.

If Conchita really wanted nothing to do with Mathieu after the clumsy rape or getting her fired or getting her deported or beating her up, she could've/should've said so and had nothing to do with him, but she didn't. She was sadistic. She knew Mathieu wanted her and that he was willing to spend money on her and she used him.

I'm not saying Mathieu is innocent, but that Conchita's arguably more guilty. She allowed the relationship to continue. Since Mathieu never slept with her, we have no idea if he would've dropped her or wanted nothing to do with her after he had. What we do know is, Mathieu had strong feelings for Conchita, she knew it, and she used those feelings to hurt him.

She either liked him and chose to torture him, or she didn't like him and she used him. Mathieu's feelings were clear, hers were not. If she really wanted a relationship with Mathieu, it was unfair and harsh to expect him to do all the giving while she did all the taking.

"Who cares? He's a cheeseburger." -- Stewie Griffin

[–] konam 13 years ago

Its clear that the Conchitas just wanted to play around with Mathew. I wouldnt even say she was in for the money, I believe that she just wanted to play with him.. Something like "That old sack is trying to take advantage of me as a maid, she'll suffer for that".

Plus, I'd say that in Mathew's age it would be much harder to get away from a passion than it is when one is in his 30's. How many 60ish people you see marry 20ish girls even tho they know the women are only there for his money? Plus, the conchitas were just too hot, specially the dumb one.

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- He moves his lips when he reads. What does that tell you about him?

[–] udippel 8 years ago

Since you started the whole thread, and keep coming back: I think the masterly part is that Buñuel never took sides - like he rarely did. So one of the great things in here is that you can side with either side. It was a manipulation game with no end on either side, and that's what kept them together: they noticed, at least instinctively, that they had found a worthy adversary.
Sure, she treated him very bad. Re-watch the scene with her mother, when he says, he's not going to marry her (though his wife died years ago), and might eventually marry her some time in the future. That scene alone makes it clear that his interest is just to satisfy his obsession with her and nothing else. Put yourself into the shoes of a man, who is very wealthy, without having to do any work. That man can very well get up in the morning and randomly select a challenge for the day. For example going to bed with an unknown woman. And so it looks here: again, if it had been love, he was very composed until coincidence let him meet her again in Lausanne. Then he hopped back on the wagon only.

To me, Buñuel is the greatest of all, and to me this shows in the end, and it also answers your concerns somehow: the notorious sack pops up again, and with it a cloth, bloodied, and a cloth needed mending, and the lady in the shopfront is astonishingly working to mend it, Fernando Rey looks at it, nods his head in a 'no', goes back to Conchita, and both end up one way or another, in a draw, whenever the end comes. And it does come.

[–] C.S.Wood 8 years ago

Put yourself into the shoes of a man, who is very wealthy, without having to do any work. That man can very well get up in the morning and randomly select a challenge for the day. For example going to bed with an unknown woman. And so it looks here: again, if it had been love, he was very composed until coincidence let him meet her again in Lausanne. Then he hopped back on the wagon only.

Okay it has been quite a while since I've seen the movie, but if memory serves, we never see Mathieu chase any other woman. If he were in fact the stereotypical rich playboy who sleep around a lot, why wasn't he sleeping with other women in between chasing Conchita? We are assuming that Mathieu a) only wanted her for sex and wasn't really in love with her and b) would lose interest in her after he'd had her. We have no bases to assume any of those things were true aside from that's a thing some rich guys do.

On the other hand, we know Conchita based on what she does, there is no need to guess or assume with her. It might not have been Buñuel's intent to take sides but I can't help but lean towards Mathieu if only because his actions mostly fit in line with someone who is genuinely in love or been hurt by someone he loved. Not saying he's a good guy or that I condone the bad things he did, just that is actions make more sense.

All things said though this really is one of the reason why I think the movie is great, that this is something that could be endlessly analyzed and debated. I should make plans to watch it again sometime soon. 

EDIT: Reread my earlier posts after the fact and realized I basically just reposted some of my same comments without realizing it.

He ever proposed marriage? See, he didn't. He didn't even want her with him, what he wanted was her to be in a house, away, bugging whoever would want to be bugged with her silly *beep* and pass by when he felt like having her.

Okay I'm looking at this from 2016 and the movie came out in 1977, but who marries someone they've never had sex with outside of religious reasons? Besides you could easily argue that was another attempt to possess her, and I highly doubt she would have agreed anyway.

Though I admit it would have been interesting to see what she would have done had he proposed. Assuming she said yes, what happens if she still doesn't sleep with him? A woman isn't obligated to put out even if she's married.

Revenge is the most important meal of the day.

[–] randyhndrsn 13 years ago

Believe it or not, I was actually involved with a woman just like Conchita for a few years.

We met and I thought she was beautiful at first sight, beautiful latina girl, we would talk on the phone all the time, spend long nights together and talked of love and life.

Well I wanted more from this, after she teased me for months and months, well she would tell me she was a virgin and all of a sudden she would tell me stories of things she did with past guys friends.

I ended it after she played these games for so long, we didn't talk for almost a year and she came back and found me very lonely, we talked and became friends again.

Soon after all of this, she told me she still loved me and wanted to be with me, she was pretty poor living with her mother, sister and grandmother in a small house.

I gave her gifts and asked her to come live with me, we would find a place together and be happy, she seemed so honest with me when she told me yes and so we planned it out.

So she just stops talking to me out of nowhere, won't answer my phone calls or open the door at her house and I just have to quit, so she get's in contact with me almost a year later.

At this point, I had dated a couple other girls and neither was very serious, she told me she went to visit some friends far away and one of them was guy, it sounded like she was involved with him.

I told her how cruel and terrible she had been to me, she said she knew she had been and that she was ready for us to be friends again, I decided I would let this all go.

Well wouldn't you know it, she told me her sad stories again and the truth and lies never made any sense, her entire life just seemed to be a lie and she never made any sense.

She wanted to be loved but didn't want to be in a relationship, she wanted someone to help her and yet she wanted to be on her own, she had boyfriends, girlfriends and other crap.

She told me she was going to college now and that we would be together once she was done, I told her to go die and haven't spoken to her since.

So maybe mine wasn't as bad as his, but I certainly have lived and somehow couldn't stop getting pulled into the same kind of situation.

[–] C.S.Wood 13 years ago

I'm not joking at all when I say you should turn that into a novel.

I know it's been a while since I posted that original message but I've just come to terms with the fact that some people are simply nuts. I don't know why or how but some people just thrive on playing games and causing others pain.

But hey, at least you got out when you did and didn't buy her a house or anything. That would've really sucked.

Don't try to cash in love, that check will always bounce.

[–] randyhndrsn 12 years ago

It would be a painful novel to write, as I spent so much time of my life on a complete crazy person, but it was certainly very creepy to watch this movie and see how close my story was.

The people might not want to cause pain, they just might not have the right things going on in their head to even know that what they are doing is cruel, or maybe their sense of morals is just screwed.

Either way, this movie taps into a strange part of romance.

[–] whalleywhat 9 years ago

Interesting. What are your thoughts on property?

[–] andras-andreea 11 years ago

In my opinion, they're both equally responsable for their messed up relationship and the awful things they do to each other.

The way I see it, Mathieu is not in love with her, but he desires her, he's attracted to her. I think that's why he puts up with all that crap. It's because he's not really looking for a steady relationship, he's fooling around and he's not interested in real affection. Mathieu isn't a teenager who's in love for the first time, he's a grown man but he doesn't give her up even though she causes him a lot of pain. He is basically asking for it. As for Conchita, I do believe she loves him, but not in the way she claims to. She's not attracted to him and doesn't want to sleep with him. She sees him as a father figure and desires his affection and she's afraid to have sex with him because she knows that will be the end of their relationship. However, Conchita lies to him, telling him that she will eventually be his. She's also asking for it. They're both fools. It's actually quite sad.

They're relationship was impossible, it was a ticking bomb. I guess that's why Bunuel decided to literally blow them up.

[–] C.S.Wood 11 years ago

That sounds like a reasonable interpretation.

However, my question is how do we know Mathieu wasn't really in love with her? I mean when you love someone don't you also desire them? Don't you want to sleep with them?

It's possible that if Mathieu had slept with Conchita he would not have been interested in her anymore, but what solid evidence do we have of this? It's been a while since I've seen the film but he never takes an interest in any other women, he never sleeps with any other women while he's waiting to get into Conchita's pants, and he shares the entire story of his relationship with her with a train car full of people. There isn't much that supports the idea that Conchita was just a passing crush to Mathieu, he spent considerable time and money trying to be with her and all he got was misery.

In the end he takes her back despite all the crap she put him through and knowing full well he probably is not going to have sex with her and then they get blown up.

Maybe I'm looking at the film from too much of a modern perspective, but Conchita comes off as totally nuts to me and not worth the trouble. The fact Mathieu was willing to put up with her BS meant, to me, that he must have cared, because guys don't generally put up with that much crap just to get laid especially if they've got money like Mathieu and could get an arguable more attractive woman at any time.

Don't try to cash in love, that check will always bounce.

[–] andras-andreea 11 years ago

I don't know, maybe you're right. I just don't see it that way. You do desire to sleep with the one you're in love with (unless you're asexual) but that doesn't mean that if you want to sleep with someone it is because you love them.

I think that when he first saw her, he was very attrected to her and he definitely wanted to sleep with her. However, she refussed him and that's why I think that it became his goal to have sex with her but he didn't want anything else from Conchita. He seems like the kind of man who wants things done his way and wants to be in control of everything. The more he looked at her, the more he wanted her. When he visited her (the second time I think) and they sat on the sofa, he said to her that he was always thinking about her and the only thing he could give her in order to please her is money. If I were in love with someone I would never say anything like that to them. I doubt anyone would.

Like I said before, I don't think the reason he put up with her crap was that he was in love because that's what a naive young man would do. But he wasn't a naive young man, I bet he had got some experience under his belt. He just seems too desperate to me. The fact that he shared the story with the people on the train makes me believe that he didn't consider it all that personal after all even though he was outraged. And even though he was outraged and sick of her personality and everything he took her back and I think he did that because he wasn't interested in her personality and just wanted to sleep with her. He saw a new opportunity to do it. I think that because of the way he looked at that veil which had a blood stain on it and how he held her hand while looking at the veil and telling her something. She got mad of course and wanted to leave.

All both of them got in the end was misery. They hadn't figured out why their relationship could never work and it was going to `blow up` at a certain point. It's as if they were both in denial. So, it literally blew up (I love Bunuel for that).

I'm not trying to defend Conchita. Of course Conchita comes off as totally nuts, but so does Mathieu. They're both crazy for torturing each other like that and they both wanted something they could never have.

Solid evidence? I don't think any of us have it. It's just two different ways of understanding the movie. We'll probably never agree on this anyway.

[–] udippel 8 years ago

I agree with you basically.
One minor correction: he used to have a picture of his wife, passed away since long, on the chimney (?) in his country house.

I also wonder what he might have told her watching the cloth with the blood stain on it. Funny enough, a moment later on the lady in the shop window tries to mend the rift in the cloth, Fernando Rey shakes his head. So this could be the rift between them, or the repairing the damage done by the Defloration that bloodied the cloth. Wild guesses on my side here, of course.
Whichever purpose, it obviously can't be mended, and off they go.

[–] PrashunChakraborty 9 years ago

A lot of wise posts in this thread. I agree with others who think that Conchita did love Mathieu but in her own twisted way.She loved him but she doesn't enjoy sex or thinks it's important in a fruitful relationship and she is constantly trying to improve (in her own mind) Mathieu.

If I was in Mathieu's shoes I would have left her at the bar, she seemed happy and at peace. She finally belonged to a certain place.

[–] PoppyTransfusion 9 years ago

Mathieu wanted to possess her. There's a reason it's called That Obscure Object of Desire.

f women didn't like presents or eating at expensive restaurants then men wouldn't spend their money on those things. If Mathieu bought her nothing he'd be seen as a cheap-sake. Meanwhile, Conchita got a house out of the deal and all Mathieu got was to second base.

What *beep* crap.

A bird sings and the mountain's silence deepens.

[–] C.S.Wood 9 years ago

Mathieu wanted to possess her. There's a reason it's called That Obscure Object of Desire.

Yes, but my question is, how is that so different from most other couplings? Clearly he wanted her, and if she didn't want him she could have just said so, but instead she basically strung him along while accepting his gifts.

Personally I think they were both equally nuts and deserved each other, but also can't help but think that Mathieu wouldn't have gone through so much trouble to get Conchita if he didn't care about her. I mean he even takes her back at the end even after all that crap she put him through. That has got to be love. Nothing else explains it.

Revenge is the most important meal of the day.

[–] udippel 8 years ago

Ah, amazing! You're still at it, after years! I like that persistence, and the curiosity.
I think you're on a good trail and yet not there: Don't forget the times, the position of the bourgeois, and his inability to take a 'no' for a 'no'. He's able to buy what and whom he can, and is willing to do so. Be beat her up for good, and still they are at a draw, if only in water buckets. He wants to have her. Over. He ever proposed marriage? See, he didn't. He didn't even want her with him, what he wanted was her to be in a house, away, bugging whoever would want to be bugged with her silly *beep* and pass by when he felt like having her.
I don't know if I can ever convince you: look at the house that he bought. It looks more like a bird cage in large than a house. I am sure Buñuel wasn't aware of this fact, it rather looks like as if that house was supposed to be like a cage.