MovieChat Forums > Audrey Rose (1977) Discussion > Ivy's fetus - I'm confused.

Ivy's fetus - I'm confused.


If you believe in reincarnation, shouldn't a soul of a dead person come into the baby the moment he's conceived? In Audrey Rose, her soul reincarnated only when Janice gave birth to Ivy. Seven minutes after Audrey died. Does this mean Ivy didn' have a soul for 9 months while she was on her mother's womb? It is scientifically proven that a fetus is alive, so this reincarnation theory has flaws.

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While I don't believe this to be true, some people think that a fetus isn't a person, having no soul and that if a fetus is killed it's not murder (hence, abortion being legal). So I guess that may have been where they were coming from. That until a child takes its first breath, it is not considered a person.

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[deleted]

When the soul enters the body is a religious belief, not a scientific one.

As for Audrey being reincarnated in Ivy at birth, Audrey's soul could have joined with Ivy's. Ivy only has the "nightmares" around her birthday, so that could be when Audrey's soul is the strongest.

One more thing, Hoover said Audrey died at 820, Ivy was born at 822. Two minutes, not seven.



And Shepherds we shall be; For thee, my Lord, for thee

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Science says nothing about out souls. There isn't even any scientific evidence souls actually exist separate from the brain.

B

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Thank you. Although I'd love for there to be such a thing as a soul, I'm not going to pretend that science supports the existence of souls or god or any such other thing.

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I love it. "I don't believe the soul enters only at birth. Science proves different. " Um, yeah.

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For reincarnation to make logical sense, the older soul would have to take control at conception. Even if reincarnation were real, since the world population is growing, there would have to be enough old souls to cover the increase.

Valeyard

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One more thing, Hoover said Audrey died at 820, Ivy was born at 822. Two minutes, not seven.
I meant the novel. Ivy was born at 8:27. Also in the book, Ivy didn't have any nightmares around her birthday.

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I haven't read the book in years. The movie does have it two minutes apart. =)

Watched the movie the other day, may need to read the book again.

And Shepherds we shall be For thee, my Lord, for thee

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Even if reincarnation were real, since the world population is growing, there would have to be enough old souls to cover the increase.


Hindus and Jainists believe that humans can reincarnate from other animals. Which is why strict adherents are vegetarians. According to the Tibetan Book of the Dead it takes 49 days for a soul to pass from a deceased body to a new one.

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It was 1977! I'm guessing that the fetus wasn't considered a living (?) person, thing, back 30 years ago. Not to mention (it being 1977) what year was the movie set in? Look at the sets and the decorating, furniture etc, looks like 1960s to me.

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The movie is set in 1976 and the novel in 1974.

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According to the info in the guide using the remote it said 1977.

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It is 1976 in the movie. It was released in 1977.

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Are you sure the movie is supposed to take place in 1976? When the car crashes you see the inspection sticker reading "1965." A few seconds later when we make the jump to NYC and the pictures of Ivy's family in the park there is an inspection sticker reading "1972" - Seven years later. Also Hoover says something the death of his daughter being seven years ago.

While Susan was 12 or so when this picture was shot, I think the charcter she wa playing was supposed to be younger - Maybe seven or eight (She was born when Audrey Rose died).

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Defintley 1976 - one of the cabs has an ad box on top with a slogan, the gist of which say celebrate the bicentennial in New York City.

"You want to save humanity but it's people that you just can't stand". - John Lennon

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They say REPEATEDLY that the accident was 11 years prior.

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Good lord! The late 60s and the 70s were when all the debates about whether or not abortion was murder or should be legal began. Of course we knew a fetus was a living thing. Do you think we were all ignorant idiots and there were no biologists/doctors who understood reproduction? The question was the same then as it is now. When does a fetus become a human being with rights of its own apart from the mother?

B

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"Does this mean Ivy didn' have a soul for 9 months while she was on her mother's womb? It is scientifically proven that a fetus is alive, so this reincarnation theory has flaws. "
quote from Lizzie4
Just because a thing lives it doesn't mean it has a soul. Do you think frogs have souls?
Your science is flawed in its context. If a live fetus has a soul, why can that soul not be a reincarnated soul?
I do not mean to be unkind, Lizzie4, but Go Read.

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But according to the movie and novel, Audrey's soul only reincarnated when Janice gave birth to Ivy. So Lizzie makes sense to me.

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From what I've heard from people that are able to communicate with "the dead", a soul doesen't reincarnate until about 80 years after a person dies. It that way, most people never live to experience a person they've known being reincarnated, which also makes sense from a nature's point of view. It would be pretty far out if everyone would live among their dead friends and relatives all the time.

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It would be pretty far out if everyone would live among their dead friends and relatives all the time.


Not dead friends and relatives, from a former life but very much alive. Who says you reincarnate back into your former environment? Besides, contrary to the plot of Audrey Rose, even if they did they would not be recognized as such.

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To me, thats what Ivy was suffering. Her soul (Aubreys) entered back into life far too soon, not enough time to heal from the trauma of her death in her previous life.

The way i saw it is this. Ivy maybe had a soul, and somehow or other, it was either forced out or connected to Aubreys seconds before Ivy was born by some horrid accident. Therefore, it would make sense for the nightmares to occur around her birthday(the day aubrey died)
Renee
My very randomness astounds people!
I hate Reality shows, thats not reality!

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It depends on what you believe.

For instance, my mother believes that my son is the reincarnation of her mother - that is, my son was his own great-grandmother.

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I think we need to chalk up the birth vs. death vs. conception timesw to a necessary trick used by the screen writer to surprise the audience. Of course Hoover knows the exact time to the minute that his daughter died and the mother knows the exact time to the minute Ivy was born and when they put them together: Surprize! Only two minutes apart. It helps sells the idea that this reincarnation was real.

You just couldn't do the same thing comparing the time of Audrey Rose's death with the time Ivy was conceived. It would be lucky for the mother to be sure of the conception date even within a week, let alone a minute.

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It depends on what you believe - there are a variety of beliefs about reincarnation.

Some people believe the soul enters the fetus at conception. Others believe it enters the fetus at any time during pregnancy. Some believe that it can even enter the body after the birth of the child.

I've heard it postulated that Sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS)children are actually children whom no soul has chosen - that the body can only live so long without a soul. (SIDS deaths are pretty much restricted to the first year of life.)

Note: I'm not stating that I believe this, merely that I have heard of people believing it.

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