MovieChat Forums > 3 Women (1977) Discussion > Film parallels

Film parallels

posted 18 years ago by Anansi00
12 replies | jump to latest

I'm sure this isn't an original thought, but it gradually creeped up on me while I was watching this film exactly how much it resembles Mulholland Dr. Beyond just the swirling identities of the main characters and the progressively more confounding story, I started thinking about the depiction of men, the simplistic camera tricks used to convey the preternatural, the eerily empty surroundings and sleepwalking atmosphere . . . any other echoes? I only found a few skimpy comparisons searching online. Has anyone read an article or review that delves into this more deeply?

I never make stupid mistakes.
Only very, very clever ones.

[–] thao 17 years ago

Altman's inspiration was Persona by Bergman. Persona most likely also influenced Images (also by Altman). It's difficult to say if MD is just influenced by Persona or if Lynch also saw this film.

I actually posted more on this on the Persona board. See:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060827/board/nest/53020931

- This comment is most likely authentic and fairly close to what I intended to say -

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] thao 17 years ago

He in fact dreamt it when he fell a sleep while visiting his wife at a hospital.

- This comment is most likely authentic and fairly close to what I intended to say -

[–] kriege10 17 years ago

That is what he claims, yet almost every critic at the time noted the resemblance between this and "Persona". I still think the Altman film is great, but his commentary is not to be trusted completely: he never even mentions Bergman.

[–] Disardor 17 years ago

Maybe he wasn't influenced by Persona. The two films have a similar "identity" theme running through them, but that doesn't necessarily mean Altman was influenced by or had even seen Persona.

[–] kriege10 17 years ago

Come on, how could he not have seen "Persona"? It was voted the fifth best film of all time in the Sight and Sound poll of 1972 and Bergman was voted the third best director--right behind Welles and Renoir, i.e. THE best director since the Second World War. Bergman's reputation in the 1970s was immense, far greater than it is now.

[–] Disardor 17 years ago

Altman wasn't known for paying attention to critics, so I'd be surprised if he was aware of any Sight and Sound polls or anyone's or any film's positions on them. That said, it does stand to reason that Altman knew of Ingmar Bergman and saw some of his films including Persona, but it doesn't necessarily mean he took any inspiration from it. The fact he doesn't mention Bergman's film in his commentary track shouldn't be viewed as a slight at Bergman; maybe he simply didn't feel Bergman or Persona had anything to do with 3 Women.

[–] kriege10 17 years ago

I see your point, but really this is on the level of saying any similarities between Coppola's "Conversation" and Antonioni's "Blow-Up" or between Woody Allen's "Stardust Memories" and Fellini's "8 1/2" are purely coincidental. This has nothing to do with following critics; it was flat out impossible at the time not to have known "Persona" if one had any interest at all in art films. The similarities were noticed by almost every critic who reviewed the film at the time. Altman wouldn't have brought up the subject of one artist copying another, as he did in the commentary, if this weren't a sore spot for him.

[–] Disardor 17 years ago

No, I admit you're probably right and that Altman had seen or at least heard of Persona, I just think the influence of that particular film on Altman's is overstated (I would disagree in the case of the other films you mentioned, both of which feature shots that are almost direct quotations of shots from the earlier films) if it truly exists at all. I don't know of the exact Altman statement you're referring to because I've not listened to the commentary in some time, so perhaps you could quote or paraphrase it or give me a time stamp location to seek out.

Basically my point is that while the similarities between 3 Women and Persona may not be coincidental (Altman had probably seen Persona), they seem to me to be incidental (other than having a theme of identity the two films are really not nearly so similar as critics have made a habit of pointing out), and one's enjoyment of either film does not necessarily mean he will enjoy the other.

[–] kriege10 17 years ago

I don't own the DVD so can't tell you the exact spot. The similarities were definitely noticed in 1977, which may have hurt the film at the box-office. Basically, I think the Altman film departs enough from the Bergman one to stand on its own, (as does the Coppola picture).

[–] sadie_beth_1124 17 years ago

Certainly David Lynch has seen this film. Part of his job, right?

Anyway, while I can't *say* that Lynch was heavily influenced and wishes he could do what Altman did... I can *think* it. ;)

"There's no such thing as an original sin."

[–] sadie_beth_1124 17 years ago

I haven't seen anyone mention "Fight Club," but I think it's a title worth mentioning, as far as *borrowing* ideas goes...

"There's no such thing as an original sin."