The whole homosexuality issue - Ode to Billy Joe (1976) Discussion

[–] jamesabutler 17 years ago

The writer of the song, Bobbie Gentry has stated that while the concept for her hit song came from a real event, she does not know why Billie Joe committed suicide. Therefore, the producers had to come up with a reason. What could provide more suspense and drama than a young man conflicted by his sexual orientation? Given the time the movie was actually made, it's daring for its time.

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[–] richard.fuller1 16 years ago

jamesabutler: "What could provide more suspense and drama than a young man conflicted by his sexual orientation? Given the time the movie was actually made, it's daring for its time."
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dont know how old you are, but at this time in the 1970s, touching on homosexuality in a movie or show was hardly 'daring' especially the way this movie dealt with it.

The only way a movie like Brokeback mountain can be heralded as a breakthrough in cinematography is for things like this movie, Boys In The Band and Longtime Companion, among so many others, to be completely swept under the rug and forgotten about.

give it time. Brokeback will be regarded as campy in a matter of years.

But back to this film, Ode, there are endless concepts of 'suspense and drama' that could have been conceived rather than billie joe being seduced and concluding he was gay.

Heteroes cant be confused about sex and commitment and kill themselves? Wow, I didnt know that!

The general conclusion from the song has been he proposed, she refused and it was a ring that was thrown from the bridge, as observed by Brother Taylor.

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[–] toycoon-too 16 years ago

Give it time. Brokeback will be regarded as campy in a matter of years.

Oh, I don't know about that. Brokeback Mountain is a beautiful, classic film that will hold up over the years to intense scrutiny. Of course, I do believe nothing is above parody.

"Ode to Billy Joe" was quite groundbreaking in it's day. I was roughly the ages of the protagonists in the movie and I was very much affected by the story and the outcome. Oldly enough, "Brokeback" and "Billy Joe" are not that different in the outcome for the main charcters.

"Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow." - Oscar Wilde

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[–] richard.fuller1 16 years ago

toycoon-too: "Brokeback Mountain is a beautiful, classic film that will hold up over the years to intense scrutiny. Of course, I do believe nothing is above parody.

"Ode to Billy Joe" was quite groundbreaking in it's day."
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You pretty much proved my point with your own statement.

Ode was quite groundbreaking, . . . IN ITS DAY.

How much reference did you hear about Ode when Brokeback came out? Was anyone referring back to it, a la mainstream news sources?

Even when I was trying to tell people that taboo homosexuality and whatever else Brokeback did in its film had been covered in the past in movies, I didn't even know that the movie Ode dealt with homosexuality as well.

Brokeback was a 'beautiful, classic film' because it was new.

Ode is over 30 years old.

Brokeback can be 'groundbreaking' (tho Im not sure to who there) in 30 years, but it is also going to be incredibly dated, cliched, campy and if even recognized, full of Mystery Science Theatre 3000 comments.

If you think it is going to be highly regarded as something like the Godfather might be now (tho that isnt a fave film of mine either) I'm glad and look forward to being wrong, but only time will tell.

but I seem to recall a movie called Dances With Wolves being heralded as blessed by God, and look at how it is viewed today.

Another movie called Philadelphia is about a decade old and nobody talks about it.

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[–] ComtessaLaRue 12 years ago

Brokeback is considered far more groundbreaking because of the bareback, spit-in-the-palm, anal scene, and the fact that the entire issue was handled so well. It wasn't about laughs or queasiness - it was about two young men falling in love.

Also, I happen to love Philadelphia, and learned about it through *GASP* people STILL talking about it! Just because you don't know where to look, doesn't mean no one talks up this older films.

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[–] sparkinthedust 10 years ago

I actually found Brokeback Mountain mostly boring, whereas the first hour, in particular, of Ode to Billy Joe was very good, and often humorous (in a good way).

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[–] jamesabutler 16 years ago

I'm 49. My comment regarding the daring nature of the movie is that simply for the time, it wasn't a topic that was given pop culture exposure - With the notable exception being "The Boys In The Band."

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[–] richard.fuller1 16 years ago

jamesabutler: " My comment regarding the daring nature of the movie is that simply for the time, it wasn't a topic that was given pop culture exposure"
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You mean like Billy Crystal on Soap?

An episode of Room 222?

Dog Day Afternoon?

Did Ode to Billy Joe sweep the Emmy awards or the Golden globes?

I recall other Robbie Benson movies with him doing drugs and/or commiting suicide. He was someone who made teen aged girls cry, whatever his problem was.

Was Ode such a sincere approach to homosexuality because it wasn't going for laughs like Soap, confrontational like Room 222 or full of violence like DDA?

Had it not been Robbie Benson, would it still have been daring and effective?

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[–] richard.fuller1 16 years ago

shock value. Something to 'upset granma'.

At the time of the 1970s, homosexuality was present in shows and movies, hinted at with innuendo. there was nothing overly groundbreaking about this movie per se.

the biggest disappointment is to watch the movie and expect a connection to the song, which there isnt

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[–] yohojohn 16 years ago

I remember when the movie was released. After the first day in the theater the word got out and everyone on the planet suddenly knew why Billy Joe jumped off the bridge. As a result nobody went to see the movie. It was a HUGE let down for fans of the song who were expecting something far more dark and sinister. A murder. Evedence being thrown from the bridge. The nice young preacher involved in a coverup. Something like that. People were not stunned or outraged about the gay thing at all. The were stunned and outraged that the mystery turned out to be completely different from what they expected and the movie was so dull.

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[–] HotGayMan 16 years ago

So, I saw this a long time ago. I was just a kid so I don't remember, he goes to a fair and they are in the country...that's all I remember. Was he a closet case? Did he have a bf? I sort of remember him fooling around with a guy, but they didn't show it. I am gay, and when I was little I looked all around to see gay themes in t.v. shows, movies, etc... This made an impression on me for some reason, but I am not interested enough to go rent it. Please refresh my memory.

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[–] morganseer 10 years ago

There was a dance, and a friend pulled Billy Joe into a barn full of hookers in action. Billy Joe panicked at the heterosexual scenes he saw. Later he admitted to Bobbie Lee that he had ended up with a man at the party.

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[–] ngaio62 15 years ago

In 1981 Vitto Russo wrote The Celluloid Closet. It is well worth reading. Oh yes there a films with gay characters but Hollywood homophobia kept any characters locked into negative stereotypes. The Celluloid Closet unpacks this in some depth.
The documentary on DVD is also worth a look.

Kiwiboy62

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] richard.fuller1 12 years ago

mhearn: "Honey, get over yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!"
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What a sad, truly utterly pathetic, cliched, meaningless response with absolutely no value or worthiness of recognition.

The only reason I'm commenting is to point out how trite this response is, and hopefully others will not resort to such baseless cliches and stereotypes as this and will offer up some much more meaningful dialogue.

As for mhearn, your empty resonse has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion about the movie.

Have you even seen Ode to Billie Joe?

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] richard.fuller1 12 years ago

Okay, no one 'discovered' anything about Ode To Billie Joe was homosexual in nature.
A movie based on the song took that slant. It can be re-interpreted a different way today with absolutely no homosexual angle at all.

It can be retold with a 1950s look as being that he was dealing drugs and she objected. Totally overrides the 70s movie.

And brilliance means not speaking in a condescending manner, which by this post alone, you have done with these 'darling' references. Nowhere in my description or name identity is there anything remotely 'darling'.

So since your first response to me involved my 'getting over myself' which it seems to me someone who goes around saying they are brilliant should follow that advice, then you elect to be condescending here, I'm putting you on my ignore list.

The whole final say is all yours, for whatever it is worth to you.

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[–] avtiger 12 years ago

mhearn...I disagree with you i don't believe "Summer of 42" was overrated...i think it was an absolute beautiful coming of age film and proud to say i have it as part of my dvd collection. "Ode to Billy Joe" is another outstanding film. It's unfortunate that there have been many people in the world who have jumped bridges or have taken there lives because of guilt due to there sexuality.

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[–] krisluvkev 13 years ago

I just watched this on netflix and saw no indication of him being gay. In fact I was shocked that he would kill himself over something that he did while drunk.

It's obvious he's not gay, he even wonders how he could have done such a disgusting thing while wanting her so bad. Because he allowed himself to have sex with a guy while *beep* drunk he's confused. Most men would question their sexuality after doing that it doesn't mean they are gay. He was frustrated over Bobby Lee, probably really horny, and drunk with no inhibitions all cumulating into sex with a man that took advantage of him. But being a man, raised in the era and in the bible belt he's going to question his sexuality instead of realizing that it was just a mistake. A gross sick mistake but a mistake neverthe less.

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[–] richard.fuller1 12 years ago

Robby Benson went thru a phase of movies it seems where he killed himself to make girls cry. I know there is at least one other one where his father shot him, and I think it was based on a true story and considered self defense.

the movie might as well have taken the conclusion that he was abducted by aliens and they anal-probed him and that was why he killed himself, or that he ran for congress and didnt win and that was why he killed himself. It was far from what anyone interpreted from the song.

I've since it recently, got that there was gay insinuations before I watched it, but was still puzzled by the approach in the movie and its direction or what 'doors' it thought it was opening for back then.

A taboo subject no one talked about in the close-minded 1950s? Was the suicide so shocking or was the seduction of him while he was drunk?

Someone cute played a character who had gay sex, so now it was a banner flick, but it made no sense back then.

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] samanthaseaotter 12 years ago

Herman Raucher novelized the film in paperback (you can properly still find a copy from somewhere online) and Billy Joe says, "Bobbie Lee, I have been with a man." It's told from Bobbie Lee's perspective and she's confused at first and doesn't understand what he really means... and he finally walks away from her.

Her doll that had been with her all her young life accidentally falls from her grasp while they're tussling back and forth and she's distraught over it. He doesn't mean to throw it over, it just happens. It represents the loss of her "fantasy" of how they would get married and make all those "blue-eyed babies" (remember, this is the book!)

In the novel, she goes "away" for "long enough" for people to surmise the reason he'd killed himself was because she was pregnant. She still loved him and wanted to "save" his reputation.

As always, the book is far clearer than the movie. If you really like the movie, you should try and scramble up a copy of the book.

Samantha
"I didn't say that. The camera must have misheard me!"

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[–] richard.fuller1 12 years ago

Didnt like the movie, thought it was hokey.

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[–] all-a-stew 11 years ago

I didn't like the film all that much, it feels like they had no real ideas beyond the wonderful song.

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[–] jaynekranc 11 years ago

I have no idea how, after all this time, but I started arguing with someone yesterday about whether or not he was gay. I really thought he was from the first time I saw it. I was in college and I worked in a theater that was playing it. I wound up seeing parts of it over and over and over when I was waiting to start work, waiting to get a ride home after work, and on breaks.

The way he was so uninterested in the girl dancing in the bar, the way he didn't want to go with the hooker, a lot of little things made me think he was gay and trying to be with a girl to cover it up. He's been brought up to think it's sick, and that he should want to be with a girl, but he just can't successfully be with one because that's not who he is, even though he can't admit it.

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[–] sparkinthedust 10 years ago

Yeah, I didn't really care that much for the last 40 minutes or so of the movie, because I felt the whole gay angle was only there because they couldn't think of a better reason for Bobby Joe to kill himself. In fact, his quick exit just felt forced.

I agree, his character was in no way gay. And when he had this unseen encounter, he was drunk as a skunk. So while he may have been conscious of what he was doing, he was too drunk to resist the other guy's seduction.

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[–] foothiller1 10 years ago

Oh paleeze. The character is not gay because??? He's not limp-wristed? He's not effeminate? Doesn't listen to opera? Please check your stereotypes before you declare someone "not gay".

Also, you obviously have never heard about how hard a time some gay folks have before they come out as who they are. And yes, suicide was the preferred option of the Hollywood closet to get rid of us.

And what does the alcohol consumption say? That he finally got drunk enough to follow through on his orientation, despite trying to live up to everyone else's heterosexual expectations? And falls into even deeper despair after he sobers up because he now knows for sure and there is no way to stay alive in the backward rural hell that's the only world he knows?

At least he didn't kill the guy he slept with in a "homosexual panic".

The movie shows the despair of gay folks in the rural South at the time. Thank God for the Internet where you people can find their identity no matter how remote you live and how backward the social environment that surrounds you.

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[–] sparkinthedust 10 years ago

I know that when you wrote your reply, you were probably thinking I was just some straight, redneck homophobic cowboy. Well, the joke’s on you: I’m gay. I’m also not the obvious type, which means (to put it in your own words) I’m not limp wristed, I’m not effeminate, and I don’t listen to opera.

One doesn’t just become gay, in an instant. Most people who are gay (or even bisexual) start having signs of it by puberty (you know, attraction to the same sex). And by the time they’re the age of the Bobby Joe character, they know they’re gay, and they’re not going fall heads-over-heels in love with someone of the opposite sex! A bisexual maybe, but even then they’re still going to know they’re attracted to the same sex (beforehand).

The only way to buy into Bobby Joe being gay is if something else occurred earlier in the film that pointed to that, and him ignoring the affections of other girls is not it…he was already in love with a girl, and not all guys are womanizers, you know.

Now since you’re supportive of me and my fellow gays, please tell me that you’re critical of movies like BRUNO and IN AND OUT, because both of these movies are insulting to gay people. I don’t like gay stereotypes in my movies, and I don’t like them on TV either. But on the other hand, I’m not offended by gay humor, unless it’s mean spirited.

As far as people coming out is concerned, I know some do have a hard time, but what I would tell them is that there isn’t a reason to tell the whole world. You may want to, and I can understand that, but in reality, there is no reason to do it. Tell your family, tell your friends, but don’t put a sign on your back that says ‘I’m Gay’. Because unfortunately, there’s a lot of homophobics out there. And while it’s wrong, it’s still a fact.

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[–] porsche1974-1 11 years ago

in this movie. Where did that come from? I mean, there's not the slightest of hints to it in the song. Forbidden romance, sure. It takes some reading between the lines, but it's there. But, the homosexuality issue? Movies are jam-packed with that nowadays, but this was the 70's, people weren't just LOOKING for the gay undertones like they are in modern films. Just wondering where that came from. Note - this is not a rant against that lifestyle, I'm sincerely curious how this was extracted from the song or whatever.

Well, in answer to your question, the homosexual theme came from the director.
Max Baer Jr. Unable to come out back then, he did the next best thing.
He made a sensitive film that put the subject on the table and made people start
talking and thinking about it.
Have a nice day!

'Let's eat Grandma!' or, 'Let's eat, Grandma!' Punctuation saves lives. Use it. Save a life.

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[–] bpollen 10 years ago

I don't think it's about homosexuality, either.

I always thought the song was about the fact that she had secretly gotten pregnant, and what she and Billy Joe were throwing off the bridge was the miscarriage. "You and Billy Joe was throwing somethin' off the Talahatchee Bridge." Then later, he threw himself off, not being able to live with what they had done.

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