I've always felt that the Oscars (in their popular prime) was two children's games in one:
GAME ONE: "Guess who? -- Guess who's name is in the envelope? Columns are written oddsmakers give odds(and modernly, the winners are pretty well preordained given all the earlier awards?)
GAME TWO: "Who SHOULD have won?" This can be an incessant debate.
Sidebar; A lot of stars win for the wrong movie. James Stewart won for Philadelphia Story the year after he lost for Mr. Smith. William Holden's own wife told him that his "Stalag 13" win was really for Sunset Boulevard.
Sidebar: Guys like Hoffman could have won for a LOT of roles, yes? The Graduate, Midnight Cowboy, Little Big Man, Marathon Man, ATPM, Tootsie -- Tom Hanks coulda won for Big, Saving Private Ryan, Cast Away...Jack Nicholson coulda won for Five Easy Pieces, Carnal Knowledge, The Last Detail, Chinatown...even The Shining.. Even...the Joker(two other guys did.)
Speaking of the Joker: Oscar winner Jack Palance had a great saying on who wins the Oscar: "The actor doesn't win. The CHARACTER wins." Greg Peck as Atticus Finch. John Wayne as Rooster Cogburn. Marlon Brando as The Godfather. Julia Roberts as Erin Brockovich.
The character won the Oscar for Rainman. Maybe for Kramer vs Kramer(a divorced daddy.)
But why not Ben in The Graduate? Or Ratso in Midnight Cowboy? Well, another rule kicked in: Rod Steiger was "due"; John Wayne was REALLY "due." So they won. Dustin was young, his time would come. So they say.
Endless parlor game fun...
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Tabbycat (748)
2 years ago
Lots to agree with. The token Oscar concept is familiar to most like me who watched great actors like Nicholson and Newman get snubbed for most of a career (or at least the good part). Can anything be done? Since the Academy is not a monolithic entity that votes with one mind, probably no more than can be done about American Idol sending Chris Daughtry home or making Joe Biden president. Still it does make for a good cringe when Paul Newman finally wins for the least of his work (The Color of Money).
For the record, the worst Oscar actor snubs in my lifetime:
Paul Newman - Hud
Dustin Hoffman - The Graduate
Jack Nicholson - Five Easy Pieces
That last is possibly the worst ever.
For Newman, I’d take any one of his nine other nominations in five decades over COM.
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ecarle (14979)
2 years ago
The token Oscar concept is familiar to most like me who watched great actors like Nicholson and Newman get snubbed for most of a career (or at least the good part).
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Let's do Newman first.
We can't factor out a very simple fact: jealousy. Professional. Personal.
Paul Newman was just such a big star from such a young age that its as if "lesser acting lights" just couldn't BEAR to give him anything more "on their dime."
Modernly: a few years back in 2011, I think that both George Clooney and Brad Pitt were up for Best Actor but they gave it to that French guy in The Artist. "Another place to go." Yes, I know that Clooney HAD won and Pitt WOULD win Oscars...but in the Supppoting categories and actually, modernly, big stars(of which there are few) ARE awarded sooner rather than later.
But not so Paul Newman. He lost to actors more "actorly" like Maxmillian Schell and Ben Kingsley. He lost to Sidney Poitier in a year when Poitier HAD to be the winner. He lost to Rod Steiger the same year that Dustin Hoffman did.
Which brings up another point: Best Actor/Actress winners KNOW when they have a shot, they have a sense of the competition in any given year. I recall it being noted that Jack Nicholson knew which years he had a shot (Cuckoo's Nest) and which years he did not ("Ironwood.")
There was grand irony with Paul Newman. The year before he won for Color of Money, the Academy offered him one of those "career achievement awars." He came to the show and accepted(he KNEW he was going to win that one.) The next year, he skipped the Oscars and finally won. For the wrong movie.
There is a certain sickness to how the Oscars play out, yes?
CONT.
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ecarle (14979)
2 years ago
For the record, the worst Oscar actor snubs in my lifetime:
Paul Newman - Hud
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But the winner was Sidney Poitier and the feelings were that he had to win. A "nice guy" role. JFK had been assassinated that year. Civil rights. A statement. And Poitier was fine in the role.
Also: Newman was playing an "unregenerate bastard" in Hud, who pretty much raped a woman. I recall director Martin Ritt saying "we couldn't believe it when a character we intended to be a villain got taken as a hero by the younger generation." Oscar voters in 1963 included a lot of "old folks" who weren't going to stand for THAT.
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Dustin Hoffman - The Graduate
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Well..."a star is born." What's interesting is that for the first hour, its very much a HILARIOUS comedy performance -- with a perfect (and mannered) deadpan tone. As the film goes along, things get more serious and heartbreaking and rough, and Hoffman connected there, too. There are still some great deadpan moments:
Ben: I'm going to get married.
(His mother screams in delight, his father congratulates him)
But then Ben reveals there is no engagement:
Ben: She doesn't like me. She doesn't want to see me ever again.
Ben's father: Son...isn't this plan a little...half-baked?
Ben: No. No...its completely baked.
Not so funny on paper. Hilarious in the movie.
Anyway, Rod Steiger had been "out there" since On the Waterfront, and he lost for The Pawnbroker two years before (to a much more "fun" Lee Marvin) and...Dusty was brand spanking new. He had plenty of years ahead to win.
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ecarle (14979)
2 years ago
Jack Nicholson - Five Easy Pieces
That last is possibly the worst ever.
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Nicholson had an interesting first few Best Actor nominations.
It took him a long time to make it, but when he made it, he made it BIG. Easy Rider in 1969, Five Easy Pieces in 1970...yet ANOTHER star is born. This one for the 70s(Hoffman had come into stardom in the late sixties.)
But 1970 was the year of Patton. George C. Scott may have refused the award, but he was the odds-on favorite. EVERYBODY knew that profane and funny opening speech in front of that blinding American flag. It is said that Scott won his Oscar for the pre-credits scene, before the real movie even began.
Still, Nicholson in 1970 was established....serious enough for "prestige movies." Young and handsome enough for sexual romance(Scott, not so much.) That smile. That twanging voice.
1973: Nicholson is up for The Last Detail; Al Pacino is up for Serpico. "Old Dog" Jack Lemmon wins. He had a Best Supporting Oscar but this was a last chance.
1974: Nicholson is up for Chinatown; Al Pacino is up for Godfather II. "Old Dog" Art Carney wins("his only chance.")
1975: Nicholson is up for Cuckoo's Nest. Pacino is up for Dog Day Afternoon. FINALLY ,one of them wins (Nicholson)...
...and it takes 17 more YEARS for Pacino to win, for a "lesser role" in Scent of a Woman that folks could imitate("Hoo-ah!") and that the Academy favored because Pacino played blind (The "affliction" Oscar.)
An interesting lesson, though. Both Nicholson and Pacino had to wait for Oscar...but Pacino's wait was a LOT longer.
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Tabbycat (748)
2 years ago
Though I really appreciate your thoughts on this, your trip down Oscar Lane almost makes me sorry I brought the whole thing up. Forgot all about “Harry and Tonto”, f’rinstance, and 74-year-old Art Carney’s win. I was only 13 at the time, but did see the film later as a young adult. You certainly got me wondering how it would stack up against Nicholson in Chinatown. (My money’s not on the former.)
One thing that clearly is beyond any actor’s control — and therefore unfair — is the competition faced in the year of nomination. We’d like to think each statuette to be of equal weight — and not just literally — but by definition that can’t be true. An Oscar is an Oscar may be true on the books, but losing to Jack Nicholson in any year should surely count for more than being bested by, say, that French guy in 2012.
What I can’t stomach about Hoffman’s “Graduate” loss was not the unheralding of a great new star, but the failure to acclaim the uniqueness of his performance. I had never seen anything like it and still haven’t, and that’s because with that work he created a new, implosive style of film acting that still smacks me fresh to this day.
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ecarle (14979)
2 years ago
Though I really appreciate your thoughts on this, your trip down Oscar Lane almost makes me sorry I brought the whole thing up.
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Sorry about that. The Oscars surely have rewarded good films and actors and actresses and directors over its years of existence -- but they surely have snubbed people and movies with equal opportunity. And those snubs HURT.
A sad story: during the Oscar season of 1960, actor Anthony Perkins gave an interview about his Oscar chances for Best Actor in the blockbuster Psycho, which also had him sacrificing his career as a leading man in the service of playing a very twisted character.
Said Perkins: "I think I'm going to get nominated. Janet, too." He meant Janet Leigh, who famously played his "shower victim" in the film. Well, Perkins shouldn't have acted so sure. SHE got nominated(but only in the Supporting Actress category.) HE did not. Embarrassing. Hitchcock sent Perkins a telegram about Oscar voters: "I am ashamed of your fellow actors."
But Psycho didn't get nominated for Best Picture, either. And all these decades later, Psycho is famous as one of the landmark films of all time, and Norman Bates is a household name. Perkins WAS great in that film.
So that's my most painful Oscar snub. Others can have theirs....
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ecarle (14979)
2 years ago
Forgot all about “Harry and Tonto”, f’rinstance, and 74-year-old Art Carney’s win. I was only 13 at the time, but did see the film later as a young adult. You certainly got me wondering how it would stack up against Nicholson in Chinatown. (My money’s not on the former.)
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Well, I think what happened there is that Art Carney had paid a lot of dues -- in the shadow of Jackie Gleason on The Honeymooners, and losing his Broadway role of Felix Unger to Jack Lemmon in the movie of The Odd Couple(Walter Matthau DID get to make the movie after playing the role on stage.) Oscar voters felt that Carney might never be nominated ever again. And he WAS good in "Harry and Tonto" and as I recall, he played older than his real age (which helps with the Oscar voters.)
Nicholson's Jake Gittes was a much more famous character (both in 1974 when Chinatwon came out , and in the years to come) but I'm sure the Academy used its old rule: "He's young, he'll get another chance."
Funny though: sometimes that "other chance" may never come again, or comes WAY later. Pacino learned that lesson.
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ecarle (14979)
2 years ago
One thing that clearly is beyond any actor’s control — and therefore unfair — is the competition faced in the year of nomination. We’d like to think each statuette to be of equal weight — and not just literally — but by definition that can’t be true. An Oscar is an Oscar may be true on the books, but losing to Jack Nicholson in any year should surely count for more than being bested by, say, that French guy in 2012.
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Well, that's part of the Oscar game, too -- the other nominees in that year.
Here's a little game I play about Best Picture, 1971-1972
The French Connection won Best Picture of 1971.
The Godfather won Best Picture of 1972 -- but Cabaret of that year won more overall Oscars.
The Godfather was SUPPOSED to open in Christmas of 1971 but was delayed to Easter of 1972, just a few months later.
IF The Godfather had opened as scheduled in 1971, I believe that it would have beaten The French Conection for Best Picture of 1971 -- and Cabaret would have won Best Picture of 1972.
But...what a difference a year made.
Same thing in 1997
LA Confidential was a great movie...but not great enough to beat Titanic.
Move LA Confidential back to 1996 and I think it would have beaten The English Patient.
And so forth and so on...
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ecarle (14979)
2 years ago
We’d like to think each statuette to be of equal weight — and not just literally — but by definition that can’t be true. An Oscar is an Oscar may be true on the books, but losing to Jack Nicholson in any year should surely count for more than being bested by, say, that French guy in 2012.
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That's an interesting point. Any number of nominees have said things like "I KNEW George C. Scott was going to win, I was just lucky to be nominated."
But to lose to....that French guy? Or F. Murray Abraham? Or Cliff Robertson? Or Adrian Brody?
If "the character wins the Oscar," Tom Hanks is perfect proof. He won for Philadelpha in 1993 (comedian plays dramatic; straight plays gay; character dies) but then his CHARACTER in Forrest Gump was so iconic(and so beloved) that they just HAD to give him another Oscar. Truth be told, Forrest Gump IS Hanks' most famous character(HIS Norman Bates, if you will) and he never really got a role that "big" again, even if he got some more good movies and Oscar noms.
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ecarle (14979)
2 years ago
What I can’t stomach about Hoffman’s “Graduate” loss was not the unheralding of a great new star, but the failure to acclaim the uniqueness of his performance. I had never seen anything like it and still haven’t, and that’s because with that work he created a new, implosive style of film acting that still smacks me fresh to this day.
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That's another interesting point. We can say that Hoffman was rewarded with instant, high earning stardom BECAUSE of that performance, and perhaps "that should be enough."
But if was indeed, a truly great and unique performance, it was Best Actor worthy, too, yes?
Rod Steiger definitely got a "he's due" award, but his sheriff in In the Heat of the Night is an interesting character: fighting his own bigotry and ego in an attempt to make peace with the black detective who has "invaded his turf" and putting t his own loyalty on the line to his bigoted town bosses. Poitier puts Steiger in a very tough position -- job loss and worse are on the table. Powerful stuff. But...not as earthshaking as Hoffman's work.
The Oscars. They'll drive you crazy.
I think the biggest snubs are when a nomination isn't even granted. Like Psycho for Best Picture when it clearly WAS the Best Picture (albeit a strange one) of its year. And "on topic" -- Marathon Man with its dental torture scene, is rather a successor to Psycho with its shower murder scene. In the novel of Marathon Man, the Hoffman character actually thinks of the Psycho shower as Szell starts in with the dental drill...
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