MovieChat Forums > Carrie (1976) Discussion > Chris and Ms. Collins

Chris and Ms. Collins


I always wondered why Ms. Collins was vicious towards Chris. I mean yes, the tampon joke in the beginning was vicious. But really it could have been worse and kids are idiots. I agree the detention was warranted. But Ms. Collins slapping Chris around just seemed really over the top.

In fact if anything, it was Ms. Collins' rough behavior that got Chris rolling on the pig blood scheme later.

So why?

Then we got the hint at the prom when Collins tells Carrie about her Prom date with the Basketball Captain.

Ms. Collins IS Chris. That was why she was so intent on knocking Chris around. It was out of projected anger at the person she used to be as a younger woman.

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Yeah, I always wondered this myself. Miss Collins always struck me as being particularly heavy handed with the girls in general over the shower incident, but definitely with Chris in particular. I did wonder if she identified with the girls to a point where she saw the ugliness she herself had exhibited as a high school girl. I mean, like you say, the punishment of the girls was necessary but it was handled by Miss Collins in a very personal way rather than a professional one.

I like your theory about Miss Collins and Chris and I think it fits with Miss Collins' behaviour and explains her motivation. To expand on that theme, it kind of makes me think of that scene in the book where her counterpart, Miss Desjardin, is seen by Carrie as being "...filled with lying compassion. Carrie could see beneath the surface to where the real Miss Desjardin was giggling and chuckling with rancid old maid ribaldry."

Miss Collins in the movie is a little two faced about Carrie by bigging her up in one scene at the mirror and in the next, immediately knocking her down by saying to Tommy: "Don't you think you're going to look a little ridiculous when you walk in the prom with Carrie White?" In my opinion, this gave us reason to question Miss Collins' true intentions.

Perhaps it was intended for the viewer to come to these conclusions by themselves about the female relationships and motivations in the story as they are not given enough screen time and depth, but the complexities are implied. Stephen King shied away from this a little, admitting his discomfort and inexperience about female psychology, but he laid enough groundwork for someone like DePalma who had no such reservations it seems, although from a little bit of a misogynistic point of view. Let's face it, Miss Collins isn't the only female character in the story with self serving ulterior motives. This ultimately causes their downfall. They should have left well alone IMO.

Good post.



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I think the crux of the problem in Carrie, that DePalma subtly highlights is that no one is actually helping Carrie. Carrie has all the earmarks of an abused child. But no one is addressing her home life or the fact that her mother is insane. Collins and Sue only do what they do to make themselves feel better. In that respect, Carrie is not a person to them but a kind of crusade in which they can feel superior to others.

Also the bullying. Just how bullied is Carrie? Because frankly I don't see it. There is teasing and then there is outright physical abuse. It looks to me as if Carrie isn't on anyone's radar and is mostly ignored. The volley ball tournament in the beginning shows the girls reacting to the fact that Carrie is a klutz and lost their match. But before Carrie's panic attack in the locker room, she is not being bothered by anyone at all.

Even around the H.S., no one is specifically targeting Carrie. She goes to the library unharmed, walks home unharmed (except for the silly kid) and generally seems self contained. The teacher in the classroom, well to me that is just common occurrence, I've had nasty teachers, everyone has had one against them at some point. Teachers are only human and not perfect. ETA: We also need to consider that Chris is being bullied by Collins, a teacher.

So Carrie's main problem is her home life.

Now lets look at another abused girl who no one is helping as well. Chris also has the marks of a girl who is an abused child. Unlike Carrie, she hasn't retreated into herself but instead throws herself into promiscuity. It just isn't normal that Chris allows herself to be slapped by Billy, doesn't protest it, doesn't try to leave but seems to view it as a normal part of a relationship.

If Collins sees herself in Chris, then Chris sees herself in Carrie. Carrie is Chris' dark other half. The part of herself she hates. So that makes her awfulness to Carrie both irrational and sadly understandable. If you notice in the locker room scene, most of the girls are rather huddled into this mob. But Carrie and Chris are shown as two opposing sides, mirrors of one another.

We are in essence watching two results of child abuse and societal neglect in Carrie and Chris.

(ETA: I got the names of characters Sue and Chris mixed up, made the correction)

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I agree that no one is helping Carrie at the point we're actually introduced to the story but I think Miss Collin's and Sue's subsequent behaviour after the opening scenes are to make them feel better about themselves as opposed to being superior to others, although the end result may be just that, I don't think that's what drives them. They genuinely feel they are doing the right thing, but in actuality they are serving only themselves and in fact making the situation worse as a result. I don't think those characters are being consciously honest with themselves. Miss Collins, though, is a catalyst in Carrie gaining confidence and "nerve" later on to defy her mother and attend the prom with Tommy.

Aspects of the characters' motivations and psychology that aren't fully explored in the brief runtime, mean that we are sometimes left to rely on certain lines of dialogue to fill in some gaps. Like you pointed out originally with the prom conversation between Miss Collins and Carrie, we learn more about Miss Collins if we care to take note, and in the same way, we learn more about Carrie's previous school life. I think the evidence of prior bullying at the high school comes from Miss Collins herself, when she says to the school principal that "Carrie has always been their scapegoat, you know?" So we know that it has been bad for Carrie.

The reaction of the girls at the loss of the volley ball game I feel is a lot more vicious than it would have been should it have been one of "their own" that messed up. We just get to see that the "first time" serious punishment that has been doled out has stopped the girls' previous behaviour and, like you say, Carrie is pretty much left alone at this point to go about her business after that. I don't think that indicates there has been no real bullying going on. But again, I was reminded of the book where the Helen Shyres's character says to Sue after the punishment that "She (Carrie) hasn't made any friends out of all this you know."

I had nasty teachers too. It wasn't most of them, but there were a couple who clearly wanted favour with the elite "in crowd" and would do and say what they thought would gain them that favour and popularity with said students. It seems part of the human condition so-to-speak and so, yes, teachers are just human too. But it doesn't excuse any of it. It just helps to explain it. We all ultimately want acceptance which is the biggest theme of the story overall IMO.

I totally agree that Chris is an abused girl too. Bullies most often are. Not in a peer based school setting maybe, but most definitely outside of that and most likely at home. As a result, these individuals are often the most misunderstood. I agree totally that there are parallels between Carrie and Chris. Carrie is used to being abused by people and hit by her mother and Chris is used to being hit by boyfriends and now teachers. No mention of Chris's parents is ever made in the film. So again, we have to fill in gaps and assume/imagine.

In any case, they have more in common than what is seen from just a surface viewing of the film. That's the thing about this film. It works very well at face value or just on the surface with a very simple and brisk narrative. But, there are multi layers (as there are in other movies too) if we care to explore them and that is what makes the film work even better for me.

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There is another creepy element that I don't remember if King played up in his book aside from choosing the names. But DePalma definitely did in the film.

The names of the girls are extremely important. Especially since Carrie White is portrayed as an inverted Christ figure.

Carrie - means free man, diminutive of Caroline which is a name of royalty, a Princess
Chris - means follower of Christ
Sue - means Lily. Lily is the flower of the Virgin Mary, it means chastity, purity. In a funeral setting Innocence in death.

You can see we are getting a Father, Son and the Holy Ghost type deal with these names.

Considering the name symbolism, it makes sense that Chris would be stalking Carrie.

Assuming that Mrs. Collins shares the same first name with her counterpart in the book...Rita. That is another interesting name meaning...Pearl. Pearl is also associated with purity, virginity, Aphrodite/Venus and in religion Christ.

ETA: Rita is also a diminutive of Margaret. The name of Carrie's mother.

And of course, we have all the sacrificial blood in the film.

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Hmmm, that's very interesting about the names. That's one aspect I hadn't considered so thanks for bringing that up. Another layer to ponder.

Yeah, blood in the film seems to have several meanings. It definitely symbolises power (the more blood the greater the power), character shift (rebirth/change) and a loss of or corruption of innocence.

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The Prom scene brings to mind ancient Mithraic rites. I've even read that early humans held pigs sacred and thought being covered in their blood was a path to purification much like the followers of Mithras with bull worship.

So if we follow a religious symbolism then Carrie represents a pagan demi-god or even a prophet in Judeo-Christian religion.

This leads to a dichotomy in Chris, she is both the biggest believer in Carrie and also the biggest betrayer.

The only hiccup in the prom scene is that Carrie's divine wrath in the end destroyed her persecutors and innocents. In the book grace was granted to Carrie through Sue. But DePalma leaves that out. And I don't get the St. Sebastien connection because that doesn't pan out that well.

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This is an interesting thread, i am surprised there isn't more on Miss Collins

For years i was like everyone else an i thought she was an innocent kind teacher and her death was unfair, But watching it tonight i saw her in a different light

She was on the side of the girls after the initial encounter when she's talking to the principle, basically saying she needed to get a grip

When she is telling her to doll herself up it also comes over a little patronizing- as if to say lighten up a bit more and just stick on some lipstick and life will be fine, it worked for me

She was definitely one of the Chris gang when she was younger and i wonder if there was a little bit of jealousy towards her as she's now getting older and the punishment was as much about that than it was standing up for Carrie

She pity's Carry but i don't thing she ever 100 percent empathized with her because she was from a different world, a superficial ex prom queen world, her way of connecting with Carry was telling her to make more of herself and telling her about her own experience of going to prom, never anything deeper than that

She wasn't a bad person but i think most people see her as some kind of saint when it's a little greyer than that

One of the saddest films ever btw, the parts where she is staring to enjoy herself are so cruel when you know what's coming, what's more is she isn't stupid, she knows deep down Tommy hasn't asked her for a genuine reason but she want's to so badly, then for a few moments she does achieve that happy moment of feeling normal before it's ripped away

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“Stephen King shied away from this a little, admitting his discomfort and inexperience about female psychology, but he laid enough groundwork for someone like DePalma who had no such reservations it seems, although from a little bit of a misogynistic point of view.“

How was the point of view misogynistic? Just because it portrayed female characters in a bad light in a story where no one is truly the good guy?

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Chris was a snotty little brat that's why.

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I think everybody is putting too much thought into this. Chris was a bully. Miss Collins was truly bothered by this, but she was a bully also and physically aggressive and violent. So Mrs. Collins, to the best of her abilities, did what she does to correct the problem . Unfortunately, Carrie didn't appreciate Mrs. Collin's efforts so she cut Mrs. Coillin's in two with a back board. Simple!

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Are you kidding? Chris needed more than a slap. She needed a boot up her a**! She was cruel to the point of wanting Carrie to die.

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Chris was the first one to talk back, the teacher would have gone off on whoever happened to be the first one to talk back.

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