MovieChat Forums > I, Claudius (1977) Discussion > The Caesars (1968 BBC series) is very un...

The Caesars (1968 BBC series) is very under apreciated, let's compare...


Since no one goes to it's own board, and I want to talk abut it, I feel here is reasonably appropriate given the common subject matter. I was able to watch it for free on Youtube, I'm not gonna link to them here for fear someone trying to make them down.

It doesn't come off a Grand as an old Hollywood Epic, or even as grand I, Claudius. But the sets look decent, it's in Black and White which it utilizes well, and it more of less doesn't use a score which like in Dracula(1931) can give it an interesting vibe.

For Historical accuracy, some of it depends on how you interpret the evidence, but I think ti's better then most including I, Claudius. I liked seeing all 3 of Caligula's sister acknowledged for a change.

The key to why ti's so good is the Acting, all the performances are Great, it's down with a Shakespearean/Shaw style, the dialogue is all interesting and the veteran actors deliver them all well. It' highly entertaining and re-watchable.

The writers must have been familiar with I, Claudius, cause they followed it's characterization for Claudius (Freddie Jones), and he does it quite well.

The most prominent performance is Tiberius (Andre Morell) who is the real start for the first 13 out of 18 episodes. It's a very unique and interesting interpretation of the character, and the performance is quite intriguing.

Ralph Bates as Caligula is a very good performance, beats John Hurt and Malcolm McDowell easily. I disagree with making so villainous already before the illness, but at least he's not born Insane in this take. And I also don't like them making him kill Drusilla, and interpreting his other Sisters conspiracy with Lepidus as being made up.

Other notable performances are Barrie Ingham as Sejanus (Though here I do prefer Patrick Steward) Donald Eccles as Nerva, Suzan Farmer is Hott as Livilla. For some reason IMDB doesn't like who played Piso, he was interesting, and Eric Flynn as Germanicus was as well, they played off each other nicely (I never liked how I, Claudius skipped that whole phase and went right to the trial).

But my favorite performance was Caroline Blakiston as Agrippina. She was strong-willed, ambitious, stubborn but also noble. And I find myself very attracted her even though she's not trying to be sexy at all. It's by far the most powerful performance. Especially after Germanicus dies, her drive to avenge him is captured well. It's a truly captivating performance, and exactly how I envision the character of Agrippina The Elder. (The Younger I envision as trying to be the same as her mother, but while possibly more intelligent and patient, lacks her noble virtue and honor, this miniseries didn't carry the story far enough to show that however).

So In my view if your a fan of history, or of good theatrical acting, I highly recommend it.

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I recently watched THE CAESARS together with I CLAUDIUS simultaneously in chronological order and enjoyed every part of it. I`ve seen I CLAUDIUS many times before but for me this is the first time I watched THE CAESARS.
I agree with you, it`s a very good TV series ( I actually like that was filmed in black and white), approach is slightly different than in I CLAUDIUS ( less gossip and more historical facts ).
Roland Culver is more accurate choice for old Augustus than Brian Blessed ( don`t get me wrong, I love Brian Blessed - his performance is one of the highlights of I CLAUDIUS but he looks nothing like real Augustus ( according to preserved statues) and I always imagined Augustus like more serious, calm and philosophical but ruthless. My ideal choice for Augustus was always Peter O`Toole - he was 44 back then ( 1976. ) and he had a detached, other-worldly quality that would have reminded us that only someone with a strange kind of genius could have successfuly transformed and stabillised the Roman state. And don`t forget - he and Sian Phillips were real husband and wife at the time ( that would be spectacular chemistry in their scenes as Augustus and Livia).

Andre Morell portrayed Tiberius as a very complex and cool character ( Perhaps he is shown in too positive light?)I think that real Tiberius was combination of Andre Morell and George Baker ( Do you remember the scene in I CLAUDIUS when Tiberius, Claudius and Caligula are thinking what to do against Sejanus and Livilla? Tiberius is ruthless, bloodthirsty old pervert who write a hunting list in dinner time. But in THE CAESARS when the dirty work is done ( even the little children of Sejanus are raped and murdered) Tiberius says: " I`m a murderer !" with guilt. I always imagined that reactions of real Tiberius were just like that ( he is shadow of former self ,morally and physically old ruin but some small part of young Tiberius is still there). He is the most complex ruler of Julian/Claudian family.

Ralph Bates delivers very interesting performance as Caligula ( of course he is sadistic and crazy but without the black humor of John Hurt and more vulnerable ( scene when he says that he make love to the Moon goddes ). Freddie Jones is very good as Claudius, almost equal as Jacobi.
Eric Flynn and Caroline Blakiston are great as Germanicus and Agrippina ( when I read I CLAUDIUS I always imagined them exactly like that. And I do agree with you about Caroline Blakiston. If you remember she played character of Marjorie Ferrar in THE FORSYTE SAGA ( 1967. ) and also Mon Mothma in RETURN OF THE JEDI ( 1983. ).
Second and third episode ( "Germanicus" and "Tiberius" are particularly interesting because they dealing with omitted events in I CLAUDIUS ( rebellion of Rhine legions shortly after death of Augustus, complicated relationship between Tiberius and Germanicus the death of Germanicus in Antioch). I only don`t know why reigns of Claudius and Nero aren`t covered in this series ( at least two episodes more). That would be very interesting to watch.

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I won't give much argument against THE CAESARS. At a time when modern-day viewers turn their noses at the older British serials (Ew, there's no action scenes or CGI!), it's nice to see some people actually appreciate them!

I have no problem with the lack of action or spectacle. While such points are important to BEN-HUR or SPARTACUS, the story of the Julio-Claudians as portrayed in both serials doesn't need such epic things because THEY are the epic.

I have little problem with the acting. Andre Morell was the best with his political adminstrations and schemes, though I think George Baker had the early progression from innocent to monster, and was very convincing as a perverted beast (Sorry, when Morell's Tiberius is described as sexually perverted, I...DON'T buy it). Jones got the stuttering buffoon right (even showing Claudius having a bad drinking problem), though he does lack Jacobi's ability to show the character's cleverness (though Claudius-playing-fool was probably the work of Graves and not actual history). Ralph Bates can be the most accurate Caligula (though, like Jacobi, Hurt was following a novel's depiction). I'd disagree about Blakiston being noble; Graves is rather flattering to the figure, whereas both Blakiston and Walker took major emphasis on 'Pina's historically-accurate BUT fatal-problem with tact, never stopping to attack Tiberius when she should have done better by keeping her mouth shut.

Interesting they left out Antonia, despite all her children appearing and her role in Sejanus' fall.

I wonder if the scene of Germanicus and Pina in bed together raised a few eyebrows, back when such bed-sharing was out-of-the-question on 1960s television (with exception to Herman and Lily Munster). THE FORSYTE SAGA already shocked people with the rape scene.

On a side note, Mithrandir, you have to remember that whereas THE CAESARS tried to be history I, CLAUDIUS is an adaptation of a novel which never attempted to be some authentic history. To say you want a historically-correct I, C, is like saying one wants a historically-correct THE ROBE (No Empress Julia) or a historically correct BEN-HUR (From what I've heard, Ben-Hur's slave galley-ship is innaccurate) or THE LAST OF THE MOHICANS (No massacre). Heck, from what I've read, Caligula never liked his nickname and the cult of himself might never happened (Seneca, who HATED the Emperor, never mentioned it in his accounts). So, just solely blame that silly History Channel docu for its lack of history.

Anyhoo lombard, I doubt that Peter O'Toole would have included in I, C. Herbert Wise wanted Blessed from day one. Besides, at the same time of I,C, O'Toole was partaking in Clive Donner's ROGUE MALE (because his wife's love of the novel), which became one of his greatest films ever. When the leading TV magazine showed that production on its cover instead of I,C, O'Toole was person non grata at the set. I would argue that Blessed also had some calculated role playing (his 'Mafia' scenes) and did some serious calm as well (his scene with Drusus especially) amid his bombast. I would actually argue that I, C is Blessed's best performance, because it combines his trademark bluster with subtle dramatics. And as for the physical resemblance, one can make the same argument for Colin Firth as George VI (way too muscular), thus showing that point can be irrevelant.

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Historical accuracy will always be "a" concern (but never the only) when watching historical fiction, even adapted, where I merely shift to the blame the earlier novel.

Both have different focuses, The Caesar is more Tacitus while I, Claudius is more Suetonius. That the latter seems more familiar with Josephus, in part derives from my theory that Seutonius must have been familiar with Josephus.

Seneca was not a historian, the prominence of Caligula deification may be exaggerated, but Phillo is only Eye witness, and we know from him it was Gaius's official policy. Interestingly Phillo doesn't use "Caligula" much, if at all.

O'Toole did get to play Augustus in the Imperum Augustus movie, which was decent.

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Hi angmc,

Yes, Brian Blessed`s performance is legendary, physical resemblance is not so important ( THE KING`S SPEECH is a good example ) but , you have to admit, it would be very spectacular to watch Peter O`Toole and Sian Phillips as Augustus and Livia.
My top 6 Brian Blessed`s moments in I CLAUDIUS:
1) Death of Augustus - great acting ( he holds both eyes open so long, obviosly the image is frozen but while we`re watching that scene we don`t notice that.
2)Augustus says "goodbye old friend" to Agrippa. Everything is fine but when he was left alone...
3)Augustus bullies Tiberius in FAMILY AFFAIRS ( poor Tiberius )
4)conversation between Augustus and Drusus ( I like this scene from the same reasons as you )
5)Augustus whistles in the presence of Livia ( POISON IS QUEEN - it`s the first scene in the series in which Augustus is aware who is Livia actually)
6)Augustus monologue to Tiberius when he returned from Rhodes ( love that scene )
and of course I didn`t mention his reaction when he learned the truth about Julia - that is best, out of competition.

My top 5 THE CAESARS moments:
1)conversation between Augustus and Tiberius shortly before Augustus dies
2)fall of Sejanus
3)everything with Caligula
4)conversation between Tiberius and Nerva
5)party when Germanicus returned from Germany ( love that scene and interactions between Germanicus, Claudius, Livilla, Drusus ( Castor ) and Agrippina )
Btw, is Caroline Blakiston in bed scene naked under the cover or she wears a bra? I don`t remember.
Is Messalina sweet to Claudius ( I CLAUDIUS ) or is she bitch to him from the start ( THE CAESARS )?

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I would also include Claudius' introduction in CAESARS, sitting innocently beside his 'beggar' uncle.

I don't know if Blakiston was actually naked or not, but the scene suggests sex. Even if the scene lacked that suggestion, the very sight of a couple in bed together- as opposed to twin beds- was probably a big deal for social mores on television at the time.

I don't know if Messalina would have remained married to Claudius is she was hostile to him from the start (though it was a good scene by Nicole Pagett). I did like I, C's take of Messalina appearing to be a sweet innocent girl, which confused me when I first watched it, and then showing her true evil bitch when she gets spurned.

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I think England was always looser then America in that regard.

Messalina's traditional depiction bothers me, I in truth probably think the most worthy of sympathy of all the Bad Girls of the Julio-Claudian dynasty.

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Also, 3 versions of Postumus Agrippa`s death:

Version A ( Mackie ) - Augustus ordered the murder of his grandson because Postumus is spoiled bully with bad temper, totally unsuited for future Emperor. Is that was necessary? I know that Augustus had traumatic experiences in his youth because of civil wars but he coldly ordered the murder of unarmed grandson? Why he did not leave him alive on the island under the guard? Maybe he was afraid that Postumus would be later released somehow from the island by anti-Tiberius fraction, so once again - civil war for Romans ? We see tears in eyes of Augustus when Postumus replied to his question - what would he do first when he became the Emperor

Version B ( Graves ) - Crispus was actually the one who arranged the murder of Postumus because he had once been offended by Postumus

Version C ( Pulman ) - After death of Augustus Livia just sent Sejanus to kill Postumus

Is Postumus bad-tempered bully or a victim of Livia`s machinations?

Is Drusus the younger ( Castor ) total jerk or semi-jerk?

Is for Livilla most important thing in life to get Sejanus in her bed or she became his mistress to secure the throne for her son Gemellus?

Is Caligula mad from birth or he become mad step by step? I mean, who wouldn`t become crazy growing up in such circumstances - civil war in his family, father dead , mother and brothers tortured and murdered, evil aunt plotting to kill him, living his twenties in the company of old perverted Emperor and his "creatures for pleasure" on Capri ; and finally, at the age of 25 he`s got absolute power over the world.

Who was actually participated in the conspiracy against Caligula?
In I CLAUDIUS - Casius, Sabinus, Vinicius and Asprenas
In THE CAESARS - Vitelius, Callistus , Mnester (?), Casius and Sabinus

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An interesting tie in with Biblical History, while Legate of Syria it was Vitelius who was responsible for removeing Pilate from his position of Prefect of Judea.

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Unless I'm mistaken, but didn't Graves incorporate the Postumus-impostor story from the ancient text? In his novel, Augustus secretly spirits Postumus off from his exile, where he meets up with Claudius. Claudius writes a letter to Germanicus for aid in overthrowing Tiberius, but Livia intercepts the letter, gets Postumus arrested and tortured to death.

Indeed, Castor has many views: In the ancient sources he's a brutish man who enjoys bloodletting. Mackie portrays his brutish behavior. In Graves, he's like that but he becomes a more virtuous person. In Pulman, Kevin McNally portrays him as a decent honorable person even though there are many mentions of his violence (Livia mentions Livilla's black eye) and hardy-partying.

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Yes, you are wright. I forgot that chapter about Postumus in the book. But for me it was good that it was left out by Pulman.

What do you think about ANNO DOMINI ( A. D., 1984. )?
I remember watching it once as a kid in 1990s. At that time I thought it was the best series about Julio-Claudian family ( Roman part ) but now I think it`s just a pale copy of I CLAUDIUS ( 2002 is the year when I stopped being "I CLAUDIUS virgin" ). Of course, main plot of A.D. is focussed on Christian movement after the death of Christ ( with Paul as the main character ) with Roman part as paralel story. I`m interested in your opinion about "Roman cast" ( Mason, Dewharst, McShane, Sarandon, McEnery, Kiley, O`Neal, Gardner, Andrews). Actor who portrayed Herod Agrippa ( Damien Thomas ) also played Jesuit priest in SHOGUN ( 1980.)
For me A.D. is second part of what I call " Christianity trilogy ":

1) JESUS FROM NAZARETH ( 1976 - 1977.) by Franco Zeffirelli
2) A.D.
3) QVO VADIS ( 1951.) by Mervyn LeRoy
BEN-HUR ( 1959.) and KING OF KINGS ( 1961.)also may belong to this list.

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Super Bowl Sunday 1996.

The History Channel had a marathon of I, CLAUDIUS. This was my intro to the series, and I loved it. Shortly after the marathon, the Channel shows A.D. ANNO DOMINI. I was interested in seeing this series, having read about it.

The way I see it: I liked the Christian part (the Golgotha dismantling, the conversion of Paul, Pentecost, the moving Lalo Schifrin score), but the Roman parts are no I, C. This mini-series has the production values I, C and CAESARS lacked: big sets, locational footage, etc. But it lacked the probably more important values of any series- acting, direction, and script. We're talking about pros like Ian McShane, Susan Sarandon, Richard Kiley, Colleen Dewhurst, and John McEnery! But compared to those earlier series, their scenes looked more like guest stars getting their paycheck. The A.D. scene of Sejanus and Livilla in bed together has nothing on Stewart and Quinn making love while hubby sleeps. Overall, this series lacked the characterization and life I, C and CAESARS gave to these figures.

I, C connections: Angela Morant (Octavia) plays a fisherman's wife. Neil Dickson plays Valerius the Praetorian in A. D. He plays the same role in I, C, though its only a cameo. In "Queen of Heaven", he leads the procession of Tiberius (yelling "Make Way for the Emperor!") leading to his final meeting with Livia.

Actually, A.D. finishes the Anthony Burgess-scribed religion trilogy: MOSES THE LAWGIVER, JESUS OF NAZARETH, and A.D.

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I liked A.D. had a different then usual take on Poppea.

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Yes, I'd give kudos to Poppea denouncing Nero ("History is about the taming of the beast!") and pleading with him to believe in their child's legitimacy ("I wish to God it was someone else's!"). I was disappointed that it didn't give closure to Nero's downfall, although the novelization has Valerius telling condemned Paul that the provinces are in revolt and Nero is doomed. I suppose that was a sign of the times of cynicism in shows (1985 QUO VADIS also ended without Nero getting his comeuppance).

Other TV Roman films I've seen:
LAST DAYS OF POMPEII (1985) with Ned Beatty, Lesley Anne Down, Olivia Hussey, Laurence Olivier, Brian Blessed (with David Robb).
MASADA (1981) with Peter O'Toole, Peter Strauss, Kevin "Castor" McKnally, Christopher "Nero" Biggins, and Timothy West as Vespasian.
THE DAY CHRIST DIED (1980) with Chris Sarandon, Keith Michell, Colin Blakely, and Jonathon Pryce.

I still wish to see Dennis Potter's BBC TV Play SON OF MAN with Colin Blakely as Jesus, Robert Hardy as Pilate, with Brian Blessed as Peter, Bernard "Pallas" Hepton as Ciaphas. Before Gibson, Scorsese, Zeffirelli, and Python, this Jesus production was the first to make the Church groups go "Holy Jesus Christ!" with its angry Christ ("Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and give to God what is God's...AND SHUT UP!")

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Which Sabinus is that? I can't find any information on Wikipedia on Aspernas either.

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Do you know if it is streaming anywhere, it sounds interesting, although I think I might have seen some of it and thought it was out of date and kind of slow? I'd take a look at it if it was on NetFlix or Amazon Instant Video.

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Unfortunately, THE CAESARS is a strictly UK product and not available in the US. It was released on DVD, but in Region 2 PAL which won't work on any NTSC player device (unless you have a Multi-region player).

Then again, not only is this serial filmed in the play-style of British television but is also in Black & White, so you might like it less.

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It was on Youtube, not sure if it still is

"It's made up of facts, that doesn't make it true"-Spencer Hastings

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Regarding Peter O'Toole as Augustus, I really don't think that it would have been possible: he was very dangerously ill in 1976, and had to have major surgery. It was shortly afterwards, I think during the filming of I Claudius, that Siân Phillips left him; so if he had been cast, the production might have collapsed just like the Charles Laughton film.

Besides, even though O'Toole was always so splendid, Brian Blessed seems perfect for the Augustus of the script; and I really like his chemistry with Phillips.

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O'Toole was also persona non grata by the I,C cast and crew because his ROGUE MALE made it to the cover of the BBC Radio Times Magazine instead of the serial.

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O'Toole got to play him in that Imperium movie, which was decent.

"I knew it, I'm surrounded by @$$Holes"-Dark Helmet, Spaceballs

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Decent but mediocre, nonetheless. O'Toole and Rampling deserved much better script.



Fassbender - Mara - Blanchett

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Ok you all got me really interested, I'm considering ordering this from abroad, since I doubt its available in my country, never heard of it before this anyway, but I have to ask does this series have subtitles?
I don't expect it to have subs in my own mother tongue, but english subs would be welcome. My hearing isn't as good as it used to be, plus thought about watching this possibly with a few friends who are really into historical series, but whose language skills are such that I wouldn't necessarily trust them to follow by ear only.

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but whose language skills are such that I wouldn't necessarily trust them to follow by ear only.


I'm afraid that's the only option. DVD was released by 'Network' which means: NO SUBTITLES ! But on a positive note, sound is very, very good. So...

Despite some technical flaws and ancient quality of the picture I strongly recommend this series. It's brilliant writing and acting.

(On which continent do you live ? It's Region 2 DVD so it may not be viewable outside Europe. I'm really not sure if it was released in other regions).




Fassbender - Mara - Blanchett

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I live in Europe, Finland to be precise. So I've learned not to expect the subs of my tiny little nations language (furthermore sometimes the translation even when done by Finns themselves is atrocious) I'm listening the audio and reading the subs and thinking "thats so not what he/she said..." or "yeah thats the basic idea but thats not how you say it in Finnish, literal translations don't necessarily work, make it sound super clunky and stupid). And I have a region free DVD player anyway.

regarding the finnish subs in I. Claudius for example
one cringeworhty example is that when "Jove" is mentioned it shows in finnish subs as "Jahve" (finnish way of spelling "Yahweh") Now I suppose I can't fault the translators for not knowing british slang Jove = Jupiter (and in 1976 it may have been a bit difficult to find out)... but I did expect them to know that Yahweh was not a Roman deity!

But yeah, too bad about the subs, but I'll check out the DVD availability and put it on my notes what to save my poor student budget on... eating is overrated anyway =P

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I saw the documentary on why the Author, Robert Graves, wanted to bring this to the big screen, as early as the 30's, and it did have a theatrical release, but, I don't kow who was in it.

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