Don't call these films 'art'


I'm not an unreasonable guy, and I'm not looking for a fight here with the defenders of gore. I'm fairly well-educated. Professionally, I work in and teach performing arts; stage theatre, specifically. I'm also not a censorious person. Let human beings express themselves, in all their creative glory.

But if art serves a purpose -- not a social function, because I don't buy that premise; art is truly engaged only by the individual -- it's to illuminate the sublime, to bring to the surface the inner visions of the artist, to reveal what other humans cannot see in their own limited imaginations (limited not by ability, but by lack of experience and lack of openness to what lies within themselves). Art is the well-spring of all that's possible, within and because of this great natural gift of human creativity.

What art is not and should never be considered is a free-for-all for anyone who can't tell the difference between illumination and exhibitionism... gratuitous, selfish, even childish exhibitionism. These gore films -- all of them -- fall into that last category. They illustrate no part of the human condition or the human capacity for cruelty that cannot be gleaned from a trip around the evening news. I know humans are cruel, and there is nothing artful about cruelty. Cruelty is not open to art. Dress it up with sexy legitimizing words like "cinema" or "sculpture" all you like, but you're not fooling anyone.

What message is to be gotten from this garbage? The awareness that the world is harsh and contains some humans who will destroy others for their own entertainment? Doesn't history show us that already? You want to witness the lasting effects of cruelty, and its "artful" expression? Then go marvel at the precision of the Jewish holocaust and how efficiently it was carried out. Go get some oven bricks from a Jewish death camp and display them as sculpture in your china cabinet.

This is not to say that all art must be Disney and Jane Austen. Despair and loss and heartbreak and death are natural sufferings -- not cruelties -- and they provide all the tragic subject matter art has ever needed. Death happens. Love fades. Those things do not require conscious acts of human cruelty in order to be carried out, which is why their rendering in art does not wound us, does not repulse us. In fact, it's the opposite; the exposure of these painful elements of natural human life help illuminate the ways humans overcome natural losses. These things infuse art with hope and optimism, because always there is a tomorrow, and Shakespeare and Bergman and even the pessimistic Beckett can show us, through natural tragedy, that we might learn to overcome, if we just open ourselves to the possibility of overcoming.

But these gore films provide a stage for acts that do not deserve it. No one who sees these films is any better for having seen them; in fact, many comments here reflect the real psychological wounding that occurs after viewing. Art does not wound. Art opens the mind to reflection, and inquiry, not psychological damage.

Those of you depraved to the point of tolerance for this trash, have at it. I hope we never reach a point where we ban any form of creative expression. But your application of the term "art" is misplaced. This is not art. Anyone can take a flashlight and shine it on human depravity. Camera angles and lighting decisions do not add any polish to the turd. We might have people among us -- then, now, and forever -- who can't rise above their own lack of human decency and empathy, but as creative thinkers and artists, we ought to be better than this.

Shame on those who can't resist the sick impulse to direct whatever artistic talent they have to something other than gory pornography. For shame.

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Marry me? Yes? Say yes!

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Although I found the film disturbing to watch I wouldn't attempt to censor it or dismiss it and call it "garbage".
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I wouldnt censor this sick garbage at all, but I will call it like I see it and dismiss it. Easily. People who enjoy watching this kind of sick *beep* have something wrong with them.

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Nonsense. Any subject matter can be made into art. And I didn't realize this was a "gore film".

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tl;dr

First paragraph; "gore film"? Be away with thee.

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tl;dr

translation: I like these horrible, gory movies so shut it!

Reading is one form of escape. Running for your life is another.

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You cannot simply call a piece of art "garbage" only because you don't have any connection to it. Many people today seem to rediscover reactionary attitudes when it comes to strange/modern art. I don't have a problem if people don't like to see humans being raped or eating poo but don't dismiss it as garbage. I tried to avoid the stupid "you didn't understand the move" line, although it would be legitimate in your case.

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LOL

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Only the depraved would like it and try to justify it as art. Imagine yourself sophisticated because you can appreciate poop-eating, forced or otherwise. But in reality you're the type this trash is marketed to, so it is your duty to defend it to ensure more of the same and worse being accepted as artful. Enjoy because your kind is gaining more ground. Celebrate and watch it with your family at Thanksgiving.



Under our clothes, we are all naked!

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Celebrate and watch it with your family at Thanksgiving.
Thank you for the helpful suggestion, I think I will.

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Thank you for the helpful suggestion, I think I will.


No you won't because despite of trying to act all edgy on the forums you don't have the balls or the guts to watch it with your family which also include children.


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I think the person was being sarcastic their spongeballs...

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No you won't because despite of trying to act all edgy on the forums you don't have the balls or the guts to watch it with your family which also include children.
Obviously I wouldn't watch this with my children.

I was kidding around.

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Thank you for the helpful suggestion, I think I will.


No you won't because despite of trying to act all edgy on the forums you don't have the balls or the guts to watch it with your family which also include children.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xECUrlnXCqk

The bitter thinkers buy their tickets to go find God like a piggy in a fair

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Only the depraved would like it and try to justify it as art. Imagine yourself sophisticated because you can appreciate poop-eating, forced or otherwise. But in reality you're the type this trash is marketed to, so it is your duty to defend it to ensure more of the same and worse being accepted as artful. Enjoy because your kind is gaining more ground. Celebrate and watch it with your family at Thanksgiving.


You're not supposed to like it, moron. It's no one's fault that you missed the *beep* point, you self-righteous idiot.

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One person's art is another person's garbage and vice versa. Who's to say that a Jackson Pollock painting has any more value in it than an actual snuff film? All people have their opinion and all opinions are legitimate in art. If someone was legitimately hurt in any art without their permission, then that's crossing a line that is immoral. Up to that point, all bets are off. If someone decides to make a film about the most depraved, horrendous, awful things in humanity and all parties involved are consenting adults, then people should, no NEED, to be allowed that chance. The fascists portrayed in this film were the kind of people that told their citizens what was and was not art. Perhaps the artist has made his point.

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Who's to say that a Jackson Pollock painting has any more value in it than an actual snuff film?

ROTFLMFAO

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I agree with you said

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First off I agree with u--to a point. I find this film sick, degrading and with no artistic merit whatsoever. However Pasolini was trying to make a point and he DID make it. Unfortunately he makes his point and hammers it over the audiences head for 2 hours. It could have been made without the sick degradation we see. There was no need to see a bunch of innocent teenagers being treated in every sick way possible. The director was killed before this was released in still uynexplained circustances. There's been suspicion that the killers were some of the actors in this film as payback for what he made them do!

BTW--how does this qualify as a gore film? Except for the very end there's no gore at all.

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I know what you mean but again....when people & art have been reduced to products than I can understand the total disgust it takes to make a movie like this, to hurt the world for being so stupid & cruel, for turning the death camp into another tourist attraction. To communicate (with a sledgehammer) to other wounded people who can't see.

What seperates Salo from gore films is that self awareness, how it would be seen by jaded media junkies (like me) searching for thrills; its too conscious to be torture porn. The director made something we could all choke on together. He met us on our own terms & probably too well. A cry of despair at a world where everything has a price...artistic if not art? Its more of a lark, an intellectual game to snap us out of it before that kind strategy got stale (like the smug Funny Games). A way to reach a society with big brains & small hearts. That was illuminating once but not now; you can't heal the cruelty of life by showing more cruelty, no matter how self reflexive it is. People are numb enough.

As a perfect vision of hell on Earth I do appreciate it

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I see your point and do agree with it. The same has been said about another truly sick film--"Last House on the Left". My problem with this one and "Last" is that they go too far. Pasolini was a very talented filmmaker but he wallows in all the sick degradations in this. It got to the point where I almost walked out of the theatre especially when u saw "Circle of Blood" on the screen. I think a few people DID leave at that! So I realize there is a point but the film goes too far...for me at least. But good point--"As a perfect vision of Hell on Earth I do appeciate it".

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I'm not an unreasonable guy
You're already being unreasonable by telling people what they can't call art. Also, what films besides Salo do you mean by "these films"?

Shame on those who can't resist the sick impulse to direct whatever artistic talent they have to something other than gory pornography. For shame.
No, shame on you. Pasolini didn't just make "gory pornography", he made some of the most beautiful films ever, such as Mamma Roma and The Gospel According to St. Matthew. Salo does go to such extremes it's reasonable to question their necessity, but calling it "gory pornography" means you can't see beyond the violent imagery (of which there really isn't that much in the entire film, anyway).

Pasolini was a provocator. You getting provoked by Salo already proves the film isn't a failure, because part of its whole idea is to provoke. Plain provoking doesn't make a film good, that's not what I'm saying. However, when provoked, people start to think. "Why am I mad?" The film gets you thinking and you see there's more to Salo than what meets the eye (at least that's how it went with me). Underlying is the frighteningly ever-topical criticism of modern society.

Salo has its flaws, alright. It's not a film you want to watch too often. It's extremeties lead to inadvertent humor in some places and have a slightly negative effect on the impact it's supposed to leave. Nevertheless, art, and to be more precise, good art, is all about stirring up emotions and getting people to think. Salo is a success in that sense and you cannot call it garbage or a failure because you getting mad at it proves its power. Give the film some thought and don't wallow in the disgust it aroused. You won't get anywhere like that.

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People will call anything art. I'm sure there are plenty who think the newborn rape in A Serbian Film is also art.

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Although I found the film disturbing to watch I wouldn't attempt to censor it or dismiss it and call it "garbage".

Just because this film doesn't happen to be one I would recommend to my family and friends should not prevent it from being viewed by other people.

Oh, and very nice to throw the Jewish holocaust in there to attempt to validate your opinion on a film as being viewed as anything other than artistic expression.

Hate the film all you want. But don't insult other people with your high handed, narrow minded, thinly veiled, pretentious attitude.

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This film is nothing if not pretentious, and appeals to those who are incredibly pretentious.

Which is why I'm proud to say that I loved every second of this movie that made me want to stab my eyes out with a soldering iron while vomiting until I just start to dry-heave.

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another good example for missing the point.

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No, an insult is an insult, no matter what oh-so-clever way you put it.

Also, no, I don't have to think the film is beautiful. It might be that art is usually used to portray something generally considered beautiful, but it's not exclusively used for that.

Just showing something beautiful so that people can say "wow, this is beautiful" is an awfully narrow way of seeing art. As far as I'm concerned, art is about stirring up emotions and thoughts regarding those emotions. And in my case, Salo does evoke feelings (even if they're those of disgust) and therefore makes me think.

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