Damn it but I like him! - Royal Flash (1975) Discussion

[–] mb1981 18 years ago

Flashman reminds me of Maxwell Smart on Get Smart.

Don't mess with Texas!

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[–] Guildfordian 18 years ago

Hi thanks for the reply: I must admit that I don't know of whom you speak, is this a programme in America?

Regards, GF

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I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it - Voltaire

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[–] mb1981 18 years ago

Yes it is. It was a popular comedy television show in the 1960s. Don Adams played the part of Maxwell Smart. Smart was a secret US spy and his enemies were Russian spies. He always seems to be losing a fight, and then something "magically" happens where he wins in the end, and yes women always seem to cheat him! I think they are going to make a movie based on the show with Steve Carrell (40 year old virgin) playing Maxwell Smart.

Don't mess with Texas!

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[–] Guildfordian 18 years ago

Thank-you for that, one more thing for me to chat with my American friends about so they think of themselves at home more!

Regards, GF

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I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it - Voltaire

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[–] ubu55 18 years ago

The further you get into the series, the more Fraser plays down the cowardice, and considering the horrific experiences he has there are times when it's not hard to empathize.

He's definitely a rat, but so are many of his very real contemporaries.

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[–] Guildfordian 18 years ago

Very well said and I couldn't agree more!

Regards, GF

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I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it - Voltaire

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[–] Suzume-san 18 years ago

Of course. It's part of the brilliance of Fraser's writing that he can make Flashman reveal more of himself than he realises. Yes, there are some truly yellow-bellied moments in the early novels - leaving Cassie holding the pistol against the slave-hunters, for example - but as the series, and the hero, matures, we grow to love him and understand more about him than he does himself. Endearingly, he always thinks that he's the only one who's scared, as he is swept helplessly into action yet again, with the Light Brigade at Balaclava or the mosstroopers at Cawnpore; he thinks everyone else is a fearless hero and he is the only coward. Not at all, old chap, you're just the only one honest enough to admit to being afraid.

A brilliant creation.

I've read somewhere Fraser himself saying that Royal Flash was the only one of the novels that could be filmed as it's the only one without any full-scale pitched battles. Much too expensive for the British film industry and he didn't think Hollywood would be interested. Let's hope not - I hate to think how the Tom Cruise approach would mangle our lily-livered hero!

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[–] Guildfordian 18 years ago

Absolutely right! Nothing needs adding to that!

Regards, GF

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I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it - Voltaire

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[–] Hancock_the_Superb 13 years ago

Also, you'd have to think Royal Flash would cause the fewest PR problems: the bad guys are Germans and there's a minimum of racial innuendo, so relatively few people are offended. Even in the mid-70s that must have been a concern and consideration.

"You are, in your own idiom, a punk - and a second-rate punk at that!"

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[–] Suzume-san 13 years ago

Well actually, you know, Flashman is very far from being an automatic racist; think how quickly he can absorb the language and culture of whatever people he finds himself among, and what respect he has for the Gilzai, Sikh, Cheyenne and others who impress him.

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[–] Hancock_the_Superb 13 years ago

Personally, I don't disagree. I do think the PC crowd would be up in arms over a film about a Victorian British Army officer, portrayed as a protagonist if not an outright hero, unabashedly describing natives as n-ers, dagoes, redskins and so forth, and for that reason I doubt we'll see a Flashman film in our lifetime (though we can hope!). People are far too sensitive to that sort of thing today.

"You are, in your own idiom, a punk - and a second-rate punk at that!"

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[–] Suzume-san 13 years ago

I don't want to see a film, I don't think; the scenery's better in my imagination.
Nice to meet a fellow enthusiast, Hancock. Have you read Mr American, for a view of the General in his honoured, if dishonourable, old age?

I thought of joining the Flashman Society, but it seems to be a gentlemen's club, ladies only allowed on Monday nights and only in the Strangers' Room. Heh heh.

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[–] Hancock_the_Superb 13 years ago

Likewise, it's hard to find Flashman enthusiasts on the web (at least where I hang out).

I don't necessarily want a film either, but I'd definitely be interested if they made one. Royal Flash was okay but I have a number of reservations about it, starting with the casting of McDowell.

Mr. American has eluded me, though I may try and read it before I graduate this spring. Mostly I'm concentrating on purchasing all the Flashman books; I read them all last year through my school library and it was one heck of a ride. I also need to bone up on the McAuslan stories. Have you read those?

I wasn't aware there was a Flashman Society. Sounds cool so long as I don't have to cultivate my own facial hair.

"You are, in your own idiom, a punk - and a second-rate punk at that!"

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] Suzume-san 13 years ago

the series would end at the battle of Little Big Horn

No it wouldn't, it would end with Flashman tangling with Col Sebastian Moran, and another two great nearly-real characters, in Baker Street in 1894. Unless you include Mr American, in which case we are in 1914 and Flashy is in his nineties, and as wicked as ever. The very last glimpse of him we have, he is bluffing his way into Buckingham Palace merely to use the lavatory.

No, leave him be, no film portrayal could ever be as good as the one in your imagination. Bless him, I say again.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] Hancock_the_Superb 13 years ago

For my part, I thought Angel of the Lord was one of the best installments in the series. In both that book and Flash for Freedom!, Fraser did a really good job of portraying the slave trade and antebellum America, which makes his failure to write a book actually dealing with the Civil War tragic.

I agree that Tiger was terrible, I don't understand the conceit of it at all. Three novellas with no real connection to each other, and none of them terribly interesting besides. The baccaract one nearly put me to sleep, and the idea that Flashman's encounter with a minor Sherlock Holmes villain is more interesting and exciting than the Zulu Wars is ridiculous.

Flashman on the March was a perfectly middling entry in the series and I could take it or leave it. It's in a boat with Mountain of Light, Dragon and Redskins as an entry that was neither bad nor especially good, and which I forgot about almost as soon as I finished.

I'm reading The Reavers (Fraser's last book) right now and it seems like he's trying too hard. Sort of like The Pyrates, if Fraser got continually bogged down in digressions and self-effacement, which is a shame. Maybe the cranky old man side of him took over in the last decade of his life, which isn't shocking after a glance through his memoirs.

"You are, in your own idiom, a punk - and a second-rate punk at that!"

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] Hancock_the_Superb 13 years ago

The Light's On at Signpost was pretty wince-inducing. You'd expect such a smart and talented writer could at least express his political views coherently, but Fraser comes off as the proverbial crazy old uncle in the attic.

"You are, in your own idiom, a punk - and a second-rate punk at that!"

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] Hancock_the_Superb 13 years ago

I'm glad I'm not the only one to see connections between The Pyrates and Pirates of the Caribbean. Although I think a straight adaptation would have worked better, since we'd be missing the ridiculous supernatural elements.

Since I started reading Flashman (it's been a little over a year now) I'm surprised at how often I see Flashy name-dropped in articles, essays, literature reviews, etc. It's a wonder I never heard of him until fairly recently.

"You are, in your own idiom, a punk - and a second-rate punk at that!"

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[–] Hancock_the_Superb 12 years ago

As an addendum to this conversation, I just finished Quartered Safe Out Here, Fraser's WWII memoir. Mostly a gripping read, but even here he seems compelled to defend the political and racial attitudes of his generation at length, even when it diverges from the narrative. We get a five-page homily on the atomic bomb, for instance; I agree with his view on the topic, but it strikes me as superfluous.

Really, Fraser protests too much. Occasional uses of Jap and Nip in the context of British soldiers fighting the Japanese army in Burma would likely pass without comment from all but the most sensitive. We don't need a dozen instances of him explaining "that's how it was and bugger you" time and again.

"Haven't they replaced you with a coin-operated machine yet?"

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[–] Hancock_the_Superb 13 years ago

I'll ammend this post by adding that I re-read Flashman on the March and enjoyed it a lot more than I did the first time. I still wouldn't rate it in the series' top-tier, but not a bad finale for Flashman.

On the other hand, it is hard to fit the story into the series' chronology, which is a pretty big gripe. I would rather Fraser have done a book on the US Civil War or Mexico than Abyssinia.

"I may not punish you for treason, but I could slap you for stupidity."

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[–] Suzume-san 13 years ago

Well, each to his own. I laughed so much at Tiger, reading it late one night, that my teenage son got out of bed to find out why I was making such a racket.

I agree with several posters here, Fraser turned into a Colonel Blimp in his old age; men of his type usually do. I don't think that need detract from his achievement in creating such a memorable character.

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[–] Hancock_the_Superb 13 years ago

I got the feeling that GMF's intention was not to make Flashy some sort of ant-PC hero (not exactly a voguish concept in the 1970s anyway) but to depict a Victorian officer as accurately as possible. Yes, he calls people n*****s and other racial epithets, but he was a product of his time. GMF was writing about a man in a particular age - he couldn't do so accurately without having his protagonist have the prevailing attitudes (and language) of that age.

Of course. This makes the criticism of Flashman along those lines ridiculous. I recently got bogged down reading some article about how Flashman (the book series, not the character) was morally repugnant or some such, because he was a racist and raped a woman in one book. Well, that's the point; you can like or dislike Flashman as a character, but he's not supposed to be an admirable person. Some people just don't get it.

I like the idea of an HBO/Showtime miniseries; too bad that proposed BBC production never got off the ground. It would be monstrously expensive to do all twelve books, though, so perhaps we could pick five or six of the best ones and go from there. Then again, the odds that some of the books would even be adapted are pretty low; does anyone want to see a film about a Western army meeting disaster in Afghanistan?

"You are, in your own idiom, a punk - and a second-rate punk at that!"

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[–] zzzippy 13 years ago

theres a GMF/flashman group on Yahoogroups there may be a page on facebook now!

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[–] Hancock_the_Superb 13 years ago

Facebook has a few Flashman groups. One of them was very active until about a year ago (wonder why it dropped off), Fraser's grandchildren even stopped by for a while.

"Lola, I love you, you selfish bitch!"

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[–] lmh-10 10 years ago

I think you make to much of what "the PC crowd" would make of Flashman's language and character. I point you to Al Swearengen of HBO's Deadwood. His attitudes and actions make Flashman look like Sir Galahad and his language would make Sir Harry blush.

Yes, Flashman had low opinions of any number of darker foreign races. He also had low opinions of French, Germans, Americans, Irish, Scots and the English. In most of his books the most admirable if not noble characters are in the groups he despises. Think Lakshmibai,Cassy,Yakub Beg etc..

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[–] Hancock_the_Superb 13 years ago

Yeah, and I think it's interesting and very believable character development. The only problem, though, is that the novels aren't in chronological order so his transformation/development into a relatively brave person is harder to chart.

"You are, in your own idiom, a punk - and a second-rate punk at that!"

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[–] franzkabuki 12 years ago

McDowell was also reasonably likable as this hooligan Alex so it isn´t surprising exactly people dig his Flashman, too.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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[–] stevekaczynski 7 years ago

Reading the books, it was certainly harder and harder to believe as time went on that he was such a coward, as cowards do not get into so many dangerous situations.

"Chicken soup - with a *beep* straw."

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