symbolism?


First question: Is it certain that Harry dies in the end? That was my first assumption but then I began to wonder about it. I know that he is unconscious as the boat continues to circle, but I guess it would be possible that he could survive for awhile and the boat's eratic course might draw attention, leading to his rescue.
Second question: Is the boat's circular path, in the overhead shot as it pans away at the end, symbolic? There are examples of circular behavior by some of the characters -- Harry's wife is distraught at being caught cheating, but keeps doing it; Harry rescues the young girl but when he brings her back to L.A. she immediately resumes associations with people who got her in trouble in the past. There may be other examples. Harry's life, in fact, seems to be a hopeless merry-go-round.

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I think the boat going around in circles symbolizes Harry's similarly redundant life. It's a very strong and effective metaphor that really sticks in your head long after you finish watching the movie.

"Warren Oates died for our sins"

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[deleted]

Harry was shot i the leg. In films that usually means he will survive!

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I assumed he died, but the film maker suggested otherwise. We assume a wound in the leg isn't fatal, but it depends on what it hit, and how much blood he is losing. Plus, he's a long way from a doctor.
Yet another puzzle in this fascinating movie.

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Harry's wound is not life-threatening, and he is not unconscious at the end. He just can't reach the throttle or the steering wheel. In essence, the problem Harry has at the end (impotent even to alter the direction of the boat) is similar of his inability to change the outcome of the mystery. He knows Who Done It, but everyone is killed, no one can be prosecuted, and the whole investigation has been for nothing.

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He finds out the hard way that his buddy was behind it all, and he very likely was the one to kill Delly, and it was all under his nose. His investigation, in the end, was for nothing. He couldn't even save Paula, who also had played him.
So, yeah, the ending is really bitter.

"I thought you only murdered boys..."
"I go both ways..."

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Second question: Is the boat's circular path, in the overhead shot as it pans away at the end, symbolic?
Yes, it is. If you watch closely, you can see that the boat is named "Point of View" (a bit on the nose, I suppose) which seems to me to be a pretty big clue as to what's been going in the movie. We end the movie with Harry still locked in his point of view, going in circles, and seemingly unable to do anything about it.

I don't know that the ending suggests that Harry's life is in ruins, but it certainly demonstrates the limitations of his ability to understand and act within the world around him. The nature of the plot around him is completely unclear to Harry until just before it all goes completely awry, and he's wounded and unable to save anyone when things do go awry. He's stuck in his limited point of view, from which he can only watch the misery visited upon everyone around him. (I think this also explains the relevance of the material concerning his wife's affair. That storyline plays out a shorter version of the same storyline we'll see in the movie's mystery plot: Harry misses the clues his wife is having an affair, and he's unable to do anything about the situation even when he finally does recognize what's happening. So, as we also see in the film's mystery plot, it takes Harry too long to figure things out, and he's unable to do much even when he does acquire knowledge of what's going on around him.)

I think it's also important that the final shot is an extreme long shot of the boat circling: we, the audience, are finally getting some distance from Harry, and we can see that this is the position he's in. Up to this point, the movie has been so closely tied to Harry's actions that we've effectively been seeing the story from his point of view (we see only what he sees, know only what he knows, and probably figure out only as much as he does), and so we've been as clueless as he is. But now we're finally outside of his point of view, and we see what he doesn't see (or at least what he couldn't see for most of the movie), which is that he's simply going in circles and achieving nothing.

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Yeah the last 5 or so minutes of Night Moves are imo among the most powerful endings of any movie I´ve seen - firstly the fundamental lack of understanding as visualized when Harry is trying to communicate with the drowning man behind the plane window and then the ceaseless circling far out at the sea, like a dog uselessly chasing its tail.

Btw, it´s not "symbolism" exactly, but there´s one thing I noticed now, watching the film for the 3rd time - there are many instances throughout the movie where Harry is framed as seen through a glass obstacle, obviously foreshadowing/mirroring the final scene. Most notably when he´s explaining the deeply metaphoric chess match involving these "knight moves" to Paula for the second time.



"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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@franz -

glad to see you here on the "Night Moves" board!

Yes, it's a fantastic finale - what's great about this film is how there's this massive hidden side to it we never, ever are privy to witnessing - we get as much as our unreliable narrator, Harry. That gesture Joey was making as the plane descended into the water has been the topic of much debate - it's almost as if he's saying "You weren't supposed to see any of this!"

Fantastic narrative. A truly overlooked masterpiece of Hollywood's silver age.

"There is no inner peace. There is only nervousness and death." - Fran Lebowitz

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Watching the movie again I noticed that Fresnel lenses are used 3 times. They were common back then for sliding doors; I used to see them in the rear windows of motor homes and such. However, Arthur Penn obviously wanted us to get a message from their use. First, a cabinet in the antiques showroom in Susan Clark's office has a lens in its glass. Next, we view Susan Clark returning home from her lover thru the lens in the front upstairs window. Finally, Susan's lover has two lenses overlapping on his sliding patio door. The patio door usage makes sense as a method to avoid running into the glass. The other usages are rather illogical and all this is what gives me the impression Penn is sending a message along with the obvious one of Clark driving home after an affair. Also, the close up of the vanity license plate named "SUMTOI" seemed obscure but possibly relevant. An earlier writer suggested it meant "Some Toy" and while that may be correct, and I may be looking for meaning where there is none, this shot has always puzzled me.

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There is no indication that Harry died. He could very well have survived, and he most likely did.

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